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Author Topic: Fairey Huntsman Power  (Read 35328 times)

Philipsparker

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Fairey Huntsman Power
« on: May 14, 2008, 08:53:31 PM »

I'm refurbishing a 46 inch long Fairey Huntsman that I bought at an auction. It's designed to take a small diesel but we are a non-IC club and anyway I prefer electric. The previous builder fitted a 6V motor that according to the sticker on the body produces 6000RPM - on the water the boat is stately. Trouble is a Huntsman should be fast.

Any suggestions for a suitable powerplant ?

Pics at: http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/search/label/Fairey%20Huntsman

Thanks

Phil
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Shipmate60

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 09:27:32 PM »

MFA 850 on 12 volts will run about 9000 rpm or a Graupner 700 BB Turbo on 12 volts will give good performance.
What batteries are you using, might be worth using 9.6 volt Minim to save considerable weight.

Bob
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DickyD

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 09:35:40 PM »

Read your blog Phil.
Would like to point out that you are more likely to get more speed from a 2 bladed prop than you are from a 3 or 4 bladed one.
Better still a 2 bladed prop with a fine not coarse pitch to it. ;)
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Stavros

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 10:55:37 PM »

Hi have tried both Mfa and Graupener in mine dammed thing wont plane it is such a heavy craft that really it need an IC in it.The only other thing I can suggest is to pm Ac Razor on this forum he knows a thing or two about Brushless motors,and go down the brushless route

Stavros
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Shipmate60

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 10:57:49 PM »

Stav, or go for 2 shafts running 700 BB turbos on 14.4 volts

Bob
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Stavros

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 11:03:34 PM »

Now you got me thinking again,boy you dont half cost me some money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


stavros
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Shipmate60

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2008, 08:27:00 AM »

You cant take it with you so use some of it now!!

Bob
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Philipsparker

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2008, 09:48:30 AM »

I don't fancy 2 shafts as it would mean big changes to the hull. Currently I'm using a 6V jelly cell as a couple of these provides all the ballast I need. 12V seemed inevitable though so I'll look at the MFA I think.

One thing i don't understand is how come a 2 blade prop gives more speed than a 3 blade ? Surely the later will move more water on each revolution ?

Phil
philsworkbench.blogspot.com
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Stavros

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2008, 10:09:40 AM »

Phil if you are going down that route form goodness sake buy the Graupener 700bb it is cheaper than the mfa and revs higher,fit a 45mm 2 blade prop try 5mm +/- of htis


Stavros
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Shipmate60

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2008, 03:18:07 PM »

There is another way, but it depends if you have the room.
You can use a car blower motor on 12 volts, they rev ABOUT 5000, but fit a large prop, at least 2 inches in diameter.
You can then use the power of the motor instead of pure revs,
Rather like the fast electrics powered by a geared motor.
How did I come to this, I powered a twin screw tug with 2 blower motors on 50 mm plus five bladed props.
She had 3 x 12 volt 7AH batteries and still managed to plane!!!

Bob
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red181

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 12:34:19 AM »

here is the combo that WILL get you to plane, its tried and tested in my 42" Huntsman 28, currently being used in my Fireboat whilst the Huntsman is being refurbished.

Graupner 700BB Turbo, 12v. This motor will go up to over 20v, get to the max nominal voltage, water cooled

2 x 9.6 4600 nimh's, wired to double your volts, however I dont know if your esc will handle this, mine will

3 blade 40mm brass prop, tried all the other sizes, 2 blade, "x" props etc etc . I dont think I have finally sorted this yet, I think I can go a bit bigger, but this prop on the slightly shorter Fireboat gives longest run time, best speed,  its a play off really, I set 15 mins flat out running as a benchmark, and achieved almost 25mins tonight, A good charger is esential!

The rudder was causing a nightmare, and was making the bow submerge on fast turns. Thanks to help of 2 other mayhemers tonight its sorted beautifully. I cut almost all of the rudder off on the prop side of the rudder, and some off the side at the rear of the boat (looking side on) making it more like a racing boat rudder. I have infact cut too much off, but at least I now know the theory. Unfortunately, the play off this time is low speed turns are now the turning circle of the QE2 on the Mersey!, cant have everything, hence I know too much is cut off

To maintain a "scale " plane, the bow was coming too far off the water, moved the batteries more central.

A similar performance, but no more than 15mins run time was with 2 x 8.4v 3300 nimh's wired to double volts, these packs wher too long to have more central.
A video of the boat running pre rudder improvement is in a thread "major problem turning boat" 2nd half is the speed you want, on the 8.4's, now its faster on the 9.6's, and turns beautifully

Hope that helps,

Paul
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Philipsparker

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2008, 10:28:17 AM »

Paul

This sounds good - what ESC are you using ? I've currently got an Electrolize unit fitted but that's only good to 10A so I'll need to upgrade.

Thanks

Phil
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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2008, 10:54:26 AM »

A good speed controller is the Overlander 50 amp  (20amp reverse) with BECC. You just plug it in and go, no setting up.

A Model World do a good price on these.

Just as an aside a chap at our club has a wooden MTB about 36" long and quite heavy and his battery pack is made up of D cells and is 12v 9000mAh.!!
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red181

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2008, 01:22:27 PM »

Hi Phil,
I have a ripmax seasprint esc, (with bec)that will cope with 21v, and is water cooled, Luckily I got it with my Huntsman off ebay. I also got recently a 12v Mtroniks supertruck esc, no load limit! off ebay, its worth searching the car stuff also.  Mtroniks are waterproof, and this will power 2 motors, it was approx £25 I think. The amp draw on this set up, holding the boat, so prob not that accurate was 15amps, and thats not the stall current, so your esc will not handle this set up. I also had a 20 amp mtroniks that kept cutting out until I water cooled the motor, but according to mtroniks I was at the limit of the esc
Did you see the video? is that the sort of performance you want?
Hope this helps,
Paul
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2008, 01:47:56 PM »

My oppo in Australia has sent me some very interesting motors for testing. Here's one of them:


John's blurb says:
"700 3:1 Planetary (Actual ratio 3.3:1)
6v = 2120 RPM
12v = 4240 RPM
24v = 8480 RPM
33v = 11,600 RPM
Under load they don't drop RPM very much.
They absolutely love 33+V on a 55mm 3 blade brass prop (Type A Raboesch; FLJ)....two of these get a large 49" - 50" model (Large Perkasa/Huntsman size; average weight 13-14 Kg) up close to 30kph with no more than a 20A fuse in each motor circuit"

As you can see, everything is water-cooled and the gearbox has a separate lubrication spout. This is the way the Aussies do it, chaps - LOTS of volts. Anyone for a barbied 'roo?

FLJ  8)
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banjo

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2008, 03:22:26 PM »

 ;)
On the "Pond" in Basingstoke, home of innovation, there is an old Gent running a 48" Huntsman, with all the additions including a knitted doll,so its really heavy, with a ginormous watercooled brushless motor in it.
It is like a rocket ship.
Next time he is down the pond I'll get some details and a pic.

FLJ, That Motor looks the dogs...when can I buy one?

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DickyD

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2008, 04:19:46 PM »

Graupner 700BB

Specification

Nominal voltage 12 V
Operating voltage range 7,2 ... 19,2 V
No-load rpm 11600 min–1
No-load current drain 2 A
Current drain at max. efficiency 12,5 A
Current drain when stalled 43 A
Max. efficiency without gearbox 75 %
Length of case, excl. shaft 67 mm
Diameter 44 mm
Free shaft length 14 mm
Shaft diameter 5 mm
Weight 350 g
   

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banjo

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2008, 05:56:30 PM »

 O0
Thats the setup I have in my glass 34"

Does what it says on the tin...
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Philipsparker

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2008, 07:10:45 PM »

Hi Phil,
I have a ripmax seasprint esc, (with bec)that will cope with 21v, and is water cooled, Luckily I got it with my Huntsman off ebay. I also got recently a 12v Mtroniks supertruck esc, no load limit! off ebay, its worth searching the car stuff also.  Mtroniks are waterproof, and this will power 2 motors, it was approx £25 I think. The amp draw on this set up, holding the boat, so prob not that accurate was 15amps, and thats not the stall current, so your esc will not handle this set up. I also had a 20 amp mtroniks that kept cutting out until I water cooled the motor, but according to mtroniks I was at the limit of the esc
Did you see the video? is that the sort of performance you want?
Hope this helps,
Paul

Yes, that performance looks pretty good to me. It's faster than I would want for the fireboat (I don't like to see them up on the prop like that but then that's just me) but the Huntsman is bigger so it will be slightly slower. I'll get searching for the right gear. I know the ESC is going back in the spares box but I'm sure I'll find another kit for it...

Incidentally, has anyone ever tried one of these : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50A-ESC-Speed-Controller-for-RC-Boat_W0QQitemZ130223132194QQihZ003QQcategoryZ140972QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem it looks like a bargain.

Phil
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DickyD

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 07:29:52 PM »

Has the same spec as the one I suggested earlier, might be alright but it is more than £20 cheaper than mine if you dont include the postage. Cheap as chips, do you like to gamble seeing as its going to cost you at least £13.50 with postage and you might not get it for a fortnight ?
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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2008, 02:14:38 PM »

Phil.

Go for it mate, I have bought about ten of these ESC's and have not had a dud one yet..........


Roy
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John W E

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2008, 02:50:34 PM »

HELLO one and all

FLJ I have to ask where we are going to get 33 volts from in a boat  ::) that is a NiCAD pack made up of 27 cells approximately or 3 x 12 volt batteries connected in series or a diesel generator or an inverter to step up the voltage - unless we can get the voltage through Lipo-packs.

I was always lead to believe an electric motor is the most efficient at its top end operating voltage.  I presume also it would be in the region of 36 volts for that particular motor.

So, as we drop the voltage down to 6 volts; surely the efficiency would drop off drastically and no gear box would bring back the efficiency of that.

Ah, just as a thought; Ghosty could possibly come up with a NUCLEAR FUSION BATTERY  :-\ :-\ ???

Aye
john e
bluebird
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2008, 03:06:35 PM »

HELLO one and all

FLJ I have to ask where we are going to get 33 volts from in a boat  ::) that is a NiCAD pack made up of 27 cells approximately or 3 x 12 volt batteries connected in series or a diesel generator or an inverter to step up the voltage - unless we can get the voltage through Lipo-packs.

Aye
john e
bluebird

I'm simply passing on what I've been told, John. I think these guys use BIG NiMH packs; my oppo has sent a video which includes some shots of a model which has 2 x 24 packs (48 cells) on board! Mind you, it is 54" long. These Aussies don't muck about, me duck.

FLJ
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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2008, 03:24:54 PM »

Phil I would be tempted to stay with UK supplier, incase of problems, and extra import tax. I assume that speed controller has both forward and reverse, not forward OR reverse, I have seen this with imports from far east!

FLJ, looking at the motor spec comparisons, to achieve similar rpm, yours have to carry 33v, thats a lot of battery weight compared to the 19v for the graupner, and Phil is looking for speed, as I was, so weight is the enemy here, just a thought! O0 When I ran the 700 at 12v, then went up to 19v, the difference was very noticeable, so I assume its better to be at the top end of the nominal voltage range to achieve the best performance.
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djrobbo

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Re: Fairey Huntsman Power
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2008, 03:37:45 PM »

Hi phil and dicky.............i've got five of those chinese e.s.c's .........they are the dogs nuts.............work perfectly and reliably......they have becc built in and are waterproof...........only down side.......when you get one change the battery switch for a decent one........all of mine failed :'(....but if you replace them with a decent on-off switch , problem solved......

           hope this helps................regards.....bob.
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