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Author Topic: Whip Aerials  (Read 4278 times)

hoverboy

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Whip Aerials
« on: May 15, 2008, 07:38:59 pm »

Hi all,

I need some advice regarding Whip Ariels. I have been given conflicting information about them  by two separate people so do not know what to believe, so here goes.

I want to have a small Ariel on my new hovercraft that will look like a small mast. I would like to cut a 12 inch whip Ariel down to 3 inches. Do I therefore shorten the Ariel wire from my receiver by 3 inches or should I leave it the same?

Look forward to hearing what others have done.

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DickyD

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Re: Whip Ariels
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 08:04:43 pm »

You've done it now Pete no one on here has ever agreed on this problem.
So me first, I say cut 3" off your aerial as Robbe told me to do with my Schultze minesweeper.

We had a great day at Setley on Saturday for the navy day. O0
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hoverboy

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Re: Whip Ariels
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008, 08:17:48 pm »


Hi Richard,

Did it work OK then?

Missed you again at Setley. I was down there Sunday afternoon. Test flew the hovercraft for the first time. All worked better than expected.

Pete
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DickyD

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Re: Whip Ariels
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2008, 08:20:47 pm »

Sorry Pete, yes it did work  O0
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chingdevil

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Re: Whip Ariels
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2008, 08:33:37 pm »

When I have fitted whip ariels I have not shortened the cable from the RX. My thinking is if I shorten the cable then move the RX to another model I might not remember how much I have shortened it by.

Brian ::) ::)
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Rex Hunt

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Re: Whip Ariels
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2008, 10:22:48 pm »

On recieve ie in the boat....the aerial length is not critical.....but the nearer the original design length the more range your radio will have. In other words you will get further down the pond before the boat makes up it's own mind what it is going to do!   :embarrassed:

On Transmit ie the controller end..... the length IS critical and any alteration from design length could cause energy to be reflected back and damage the electronics of the transmitter.
For the technically minded you get a high VSWR!


Piff Paff Puff ,
 the smoke escapes from the box ,
and all ceases to function!
   :(

hth

Rex
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Admhawk

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 08:22:39 am »

I will admit from the outset that I am not an expert. :'(  And it has been a long time since I did any reading on the subject.  ::)

However, what I recall from my sordid past is that for optimum transmit and/or recieve, the antenna length is a function of the wavelength. Ie:If the freq is X mhz, the wavelength is Y then the antenna should be 2Y, 4Y or something Y. Changing this reduces the efficiency/range of the antenna's for that range. Shape seems to play a role with certain frequencies, but most it doesn't.

So in theory, if you add some antenna length, you should trim the wire by the much. But in practice, it probably won't make a lot of difference for the distances you will be operating at.

I'll leave any more detailed analysis to those experts that live and breath this kind of stuff.  O0

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DickyD

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 08:28:51 am »

That was a cop out Darren  ::)
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hoverboy

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 02:52:10 pm »

Your first comments were right Richard, and I thought this was going to be straight forward.

Think I will cut it and see.

Thank you all.

Pete

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oldiron

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 03:13:31 pm »

Hi all,

I need some advice regarding Whip Ariels. I have been given conflicting information about them  by two separate people so do not know what to believe, so here goes.

I want to have a small Ariel on my new hovercraft that will look like a small mast. I would like to cut a 12 inch whip Ariel down to 3 inches. Do I therefore shorten the Ariel wire from my receiver by 3 inches or should I leave it the same?

Look forward to hearing what others have done.




  For what its worth, I've run a 6 1/2" commercial whip on my SEABEX for years with no problems. I haven't cut down  the RX antenna length , just run it as is.

Oldiron
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BobF

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 09:24:01 pm »

Hi all,

This topic has been done before. (So quick recap) Although I am not an expert, a lot of technical fact was written.

Basically as already posted Transmitter aerial critical and must be as supplied.
Receiver aerial must never be shortened, but can be added to by almost any reasonable amount. I regularly add about five feet to my receiver, as I connect it to the mast of my one meter yachts. This applies to 27 and 40 meg only.
I reserve to wright to be completely wrong.

Bob
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wombat

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Re: Whip Ariels
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2008, 09:46:10 am »

When I have fitted whip ariels I have not shortened the cable from the RX. My thinking is if I shorten the cable then move the RX to another model I might not remember how much I have shortened it by.

Brian ::) ::)

Put a label on the reciever indicating how much you have shortened the aerial by!
 :P :P :P :P :P
Wom

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DickyD

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2008, 09:53:28 am »

My, thats intelligent. O0
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wombat

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2008, 10:43:55 am »

Yeah, sickening isn't it!!

Don't get too hung up on the length of the aerial though -there & there-abouts is probably lose enough, a few millimeters either way won't affect the performance - the length is a compromise anyway.

Wom
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Admhawk

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2008, 03:12:31 am »

That was a cop out Darren  ::)

 :P
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supersonic

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2008, 10:12:27 am »

  How's about switch it on, and go for a trot (or drive ?) round the pond  and see if it still recieves ?

Dave. :)
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DickyD

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2008, 10:18:22 am »

  How's about switch it on, and go for a trot (or drive ?) round the pond  and see if it still recieves ?

Dave. :)
Is that before or after you've cut a bit off Dave ?  :-\
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meechingman

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Re: Whip Aerials
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2008, 11:23:55 am »

Yes, in theory, antennas (not antennae-they're for insecty things) or aerials should be half waves, full waves or multiples, but antenna theory is ruddy complex and for what we're doing, probably not worth it. Just think, at 27MHz, the wavelength is approx 11 metres, so a half-wave dipole would be 5.5 metres long. You're not going to want to be waving that around at the lake, so the antenna is 'loaded' to make it shorter.

Transmitter antenna length is, however, still critical. Get it wrong and, as someone has said, not all the RF energy will be radiated, some will be reflected back into the transmitter, which is undesirable. Yes, ultimately, it could be magic smoke time.

Receiver antenna length is not so critical. For some years, I did my HF radio listening on a 'long wire'. Its length wasn't scientifically calculated, it was simply the length of my garden. It worked quite efficiently on all the HF bands from 1500 metres (BBC) right down to the 10 metre amateur band. However, when I got my Class A ham licence and started to transmit, that was a different matter and a 'proper' antenna was called for.

In short, unless you go silly with the pruning, I think all you'll lose is a bit of range, but not enough to be noticeable for the majority of us.

This is one of 'those' topics, so feel free to ignore me (many do!) or agree, as you see fit!  {-)

Andy
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