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Author Topic: Camber Query  (Read 2555 times)

GaryM

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Camber Query
« on: May 19, 2008, 11:11:59 pm »

Hi
I'm just starting to fit the deck supports for my Marie Felling.  There's no helpful reference to this in the instructions.  (for a complete beginner - none I can see, but I've been wrong before!)
As posted in an earlier post, I was concerned about a 4mm "safety" margin which the instructions say to incorporate around the outside of the pre printed deck underlay.
This I dually did, but found that even without this 4mm safety margin, the "printed" outline was still some way over the physical dimensions of the boat.  Mayhem'ers posted most helpful replies, and these made it clear for the way ahead.

Until tonight, when I was messing around with my rudder.
I noticed that there was a camber from 'Stern to Bow' (front to back)  ???

Two 90 degree cambers to contend with.
I have attached  - 'A VERY ROUGH photo'  (fingers crossed and knotted; it is legible)

I did some research and found an excellent build log by "Kazkasi" that showed the "deck" level was approx 29mm below the top edge of the side - this gives a deffinate camber front to back.

Being a beginner, should I go for length camber - I think I should - I don't think I could cope with the two?  :-\


If there's a scientific reply, I'll try to understand it :angel:

regards
Gary :)
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toesupwa

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2008, 11:57:32 pm »

Being a beginner, should I go for length camber - I think I should - I don't think I could cope with the two?  :-\


I think most small tugs have camber bow to stern (down in the middle, Side view) AND side to side (up in the middle, Rear / front view)...

As you have shown on your drawing Gary  O0
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Ron1

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2008, 11:58:28 pm »

From bow to stern, it is called the SHEAR of the deck, it allows water to run off the bow or stern towards the middle of the ship, where the camber takes over and removes it to the side of the ship, thats the best way I can discribe it. ;) ;)
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GaryM

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 01:27:18 am »

Thanks Guys

I am just a bit concerned that a camber in two axis - should I soak the deck before fixing - won't the stresses on the 1.5mm underlay be too much?

regards
Gary :)
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toesupwa

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 04:49:32 am »


I am just a bit concerned that a camber in two axis - should I soak the deck before fixing - won't the stresses on the 1.5mm underlay be too much?


Throw the deck in a bath of warm water, leave to soak for 10 minutes, clamp it down on the hull and leave for 24 hours to dry. If it doesnt take the shape first time, do it a second time...
The stress on the deck isnt really that much at the amount you will be bending the ply.
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John W E

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 10:40:06 am »

Hi there

The thing to watch with plywood and bending it over decks  -  is to watch which way the grain runs on the plywood.   In an ideal situation, the outer grain of the plywood should run from bow to stern.

As has been mentioned in the previous postings a good soaking in a bath of hot water will facilitate the ease of bending, in two directions.   The other alternative is, on the backside of the plywood, or the face of the plywood which is going to face theinside of the hull is to score this face with a sharp knife - in equal portions across the grain.  Say in 10mm intervals.   

The scoring must break the first veneer of plywood; if you do this first, and then soak it, you will see that it will bend quite easily.  O0

Aye
john e
bluebird
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GaryM

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2008, 04:00:43 pm »

Thanks Toesupwa and John O0

I'll do as you say :)

regards
Gary
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John W E

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2008, 08:01:25 pm »

Hi there

Couple of thoughts with regard to your deck camber and reproducing it.   I have done a small sketch of how a late friend of mine used to produce his decks.   This was for vessels which had a bulwark running all the way round to the hull.

The first thing he used to do was fit in the deck beam supports, they were normally made from 1/4 x 1/4 soft timber wood, which was glued to the inside of the hull, at the correct height.  This height, from the centre of the keel, would be minus the thickness of the deck material.  So, for example, if the height of the deck at the centre of the hull was 4 3/8'' he would take off 1/16'' for the deck material and 1/8'' for the deck camber.   Giving the height 4 3/16''. 

Then, he would mark off and divide the length of the hull into equal spaces, for his deck beams.  He would then measure across the hull, at the location of each deck beam.  This measurement was then transferred to a thick piece of chipboard 3/4'' thick - some people may know this as fibreboard.  This chipboard/fibreboard would be of the same length, if not a little longer than his hull and a little wider than his hull.  With the centre line drawn down the centre of the board.

On this centre line it would be divided into sections which corresponded to the deck beams in his model.

Each deck beam would be held in place on the board, using double-sided tape.   When he had them all located on he would then proceed in sanding the camber onto the deck beams using a large sanding block (large enough to span three deck beams in one go).

As you can see, you would be able to sand right to the end of the deck beams, therefore sanding them to a find taper, with no restriction of the side bullwarks of the original hull.

Also, you could keep a uniformed camber on all of the beams.

He could also take the measurements from these deck beams and positionings of them to produce the outline for the deck, which he could cut from his chosen plywood and then clamp and bend over the temporary deck beams on the jig.  He used to also produce the shear rake as well on the board by adding appropriate packing pieces between the deck beams and the jig board.

It is some food for thought - also if you are unable to do your deck in one or two pieces of plywood - you could also plank the deck as you would plank a hull, using a suitable material., i.e. thin strips of plywood.

Hope this is of some help - I also have attached a scribble to help with the explanation.

Aye
john e
bluebird
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GaryM

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2008, 10:15:54 pm »

Thanks John

This is my first build, and I hate to say this (as I would dearly like to produce as an 'authentic' model as per my skills.)  I don't think planking is within my capabilities at the mo.
I've followed a members excellent build log "Kaskazi" regarding deck height.  I have a jig that gives the correct height for the deck supports and have glued blocks to the hull, so the 'front to back' camber will be set.  As the port to starboard is "only slight" I will raise the cross beams in the centre to give at the very least a "noobs" attempt at this. 
I have to admit also that I am getting more and more 'excited' at the prospect at actual seeing, feeling and controlling my Marie Felling on some actually water.
As mentioned earlier I will soak the deck before fitting - just can't get my head around two cambers - it's like bending a loo roll end to end.

again thanks for the help John.
(might see you at Wickstead on Sunday?)
regards
Gary :)
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nhp651

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Re: Camber Query
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2008, 11:05:28 pm »

I don't know why, when the Marie felling was first produced by Caldercraft under the helm of John Wright of Jotika fame it didn't follow the same practice as that of the Imara which was first produced under Frank hinchliffe's helm.
And that was that the deck( not the planked printed overlay) was laid in four seperate parts: i.e two fore parts port and starboard and two aft parts the same.
This allowed both shear and camber to form without "crimping" of a one peice deck.
However, I have built both Imara and Marie Felling some years ago and the Imara was the easier to lay the deck on in four pieces.
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