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Author Topic: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!  (Read 6855 times)

funtimefrankie

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Talking about flywheels, I've found that modern car engines seem to stall easier that ones from say 10 years ago, I presume they have lighter flywheels, and the ones I'm thinking about are diesels.

Another point that Triumph motorcycles with twin pots had both pistons at TDC together, (but not firing together)

Off topic, but there you are..........


TOPIC SPLIT FROM "Props Follow On..... "  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11385.0
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John W E

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ooooooooooooooooooo you have brought memories back there  O0 {-) {-) :D yes, brake hard, tears to the eyes, remember THAT rack on the petrol tank of the Triumph bonis?   mmmmmmm  Yes you are quite correct, Triumph's did have 2 pistons at top dead centre on the same crank shaft.  Werent they supposed to have counteracting webs on the crank shaft - supposedly to balance this out?  That is 2 things a Triumph could never cure - vibration (no wonder I have nee teeth left) and ruddy oil leaks....  ::)  aye we know this is off topic slightly....but fond memories there.

aye
john e
bluebird
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sheerline

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Triumph vibes... I'm still having them John! Yes, both pistons joined at the hip as it were and going up and down together with a simple crankshaft flywheel mounted between them. As for balance, this was done by weighing the piston/rod assemblies held at 90deg on the crankshaft. The offcentre weight of the flywheel should then be adjusted to something like 65% of the original piston\rod weight. This is not perfect balance but it was a compromise and took into account the power stroke rocking motion created under load. In ignorance, I once perfectly balanced a Triumph flywheel to counter the total out of ballance weight of the pistons and rods and wound up with just about the most vibratory engine you ever witnessed!
Totally off topic... many apologies, couldn't resist  chucking this into the pot!
As regards the topic itself, the answer is '42'!! :P
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OMK

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I agree, but if we can come up with a plausible enough reason to look for the variance in instantaneous speed variantion through the 360o rotation of a 2 and 4 stroke engine, I'm sure we could get a huge grant from someone to do an in depth study....... on a sunny island somewhere!  :)


Hehee!... such class - such style.
Seriously though - a nice piece. Written in a way that even this bozo could understand.
And BTW, look at my skin... it's turned green. Green with envy, because you said in another post that you've flown a glider.

Reading this particular thread makes me realise just how clever some of you blokes are.
I can't say I know too much about engines and stuff, but all this talk of flywheels, kinetic energy, TDC, etc, sure makes me chuffed to be British.

Thanks for all that dead interesting info'.
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sheerline

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Although I may have appeared to rubbish the original topic with my flippant ''42' answer, the original question is not totally without some kind of foundation. Someone out there is bound to tell me I'm wrong on this but is it not true that in motorcycle racing circles, a multicylinder high revving machine would be slightly more likely to lose grip whilst accelerating out of a bend than an equivalently fast single cylinder machine running at lower rpm. I was informed this could be true because with a single cylinder machine,there is a dead spot between firing strokes where the rear wheel is effectively off load resulting in its ability to re-grip the road surface in a potential slide situation.
Now I do think that the relevence of this to a model boat  prop orientation with its piston is truly stretching the imagination simply because of the rpm figures and as has been pointed out, flywheel inertia. The only time I think you might notice a difference would be with a large slow revving single cylinder steam engine with no flywheel and a one bladed prop which stuck halfway out of the water! Using my calculator and my immensly powerful brain I appear to have come up with 42 again!  DOH!!  ;) 
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OMK

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"Using my calculator and my immensly powerful brain I appear to have come up with 42 again!"

Okay, okay... I give up. Nobody can deny your immensly powerful brain abilities AND top-notch line in patter. But what's the scene with number 42 all the time? What are you doing there, dude? Sounds fascinating and I bet I'm not the only one dying to know.

Bluebird:
You earwigging?
I remember THAT rack on the petrol tank, man. My uncle had one of those. My old fella had the near same-looking bike, only his didn't have the rack on the tank. I tried kick-starting it once. I was seven, eight. All I remember is holding the throttle wide open, then jumping on the kick-start with both feet, then my head going through the shed roof when she backfired.
What about the Matchless 250? Heard of them oop your neck o' the woods?

And what about the Indin? (like they used to use on the Wall of Death). Was that a nice-sounding engine or was that a nice-sounding engine?
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FullLeatherJacket

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I think it comes from The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy; viz the answer to The Question of Life, the Universe and Everything.
(The question being what is 9 times 6?)
Come back, Douglas Adams - your towel is getting lonely............
FLJ
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boatmadman

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42? Its the universal answer to everything, remember hitch hikers guide to the galaxy?

Ian
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Martin [Admin]

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         Hitch Hiker Guide - funniest series of book I've ever read.   {-)
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DickyD

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I think it comes from The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy; viz the answer to The Question of Life, the Universe and Everything.
(The question being what is 9 times 6?)
Come back, Douglas Adams - your towel is getting lonely............
FLJ
Sorry FLJ, either wrong question or wrong answer. ;)
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sheerline

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Ahh, all showing your ages here! Yes indeed, Hitch Hikers guide to the Galaxy series and 42 was deemed to be the answer to everything! I simply used it as a 'Gawd Knows.. I dunno' response!! {-)
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oldiron

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Since you chaps were reminiscing about Triumph Bonnevilles, I thought I would ad a pic of a beautifully restored version I saw at the Friday 13th bike gathering at Port Dover a couple of weeks ago.

oldiron
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cbr900

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No rack on the tank, this is a pic of my old girl but not a Bonne but
a Thunderbird with rack, rack not overly clear but it is there........



Roy
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dougal99

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         Hitch Hiker Guide - funniest series of book I've ever read.   {-)


Anybody fancy building a boat with an infinite probability drive?   ;D {-)
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boatmadman

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come up with the design dougal99, someone will build it!
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bogstandard

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2008, 07:28:39 pm »

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and baseball cap.
From the mid sixties making Tritons, thru to the Bonneville, all changing hands for a few quid or a quickie swap. Gave them up late seventies and only very recently the urge came back (categorised by my insurance as a 'Born Again Biker').

So this is what I am plodding about on now, 1500cc, flat six. With more carriers than I care to count.

As you get older, comfort takes over, this is like riding an air conditioned armchair.

John
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omra85

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2008, 08:36:07 pm »

Aah, the bikes I have known and often loved -

1.  Royal Enfield Prince, 150cc Bantam look-alike, broke the return spring on the kickstart so took it off and used to bump start it.  All went well until one day I ran alongside , hopped on side-saddle, failed to start and locked the wheels and I gracefully? fell over to the 'wrong' side and flat on my back.  Wouldn't have been so bad but it was early afternoon on Cleethorpes promenade with "millions" of people watching   :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:    Most uncool!

2.  Matchless G3LS, 350 single, sounded like the Indian 500 single. You could almost 'see' the piston going up and down at tickover.  Had a permanent bruise on the inside of my right thigh from the badly designed oil filler cap.  Should have had a feed from the oil tank to the primary chaincase as there was NO way to cure the leaks from the rubber seal and the ally 'jubilee' clip. If you laid flat along the tank (and had a long straight road) you could get it up to 95mph!

3. (Mod era) NSU Prima scooter, 150cc with FOOT change gears.  Beware of wet manhole covers on roundabouts  ;) ::) ::)

4.  Ariel Leader, 250cc 2 stroke twin, recognised from behind by the twin spirals of smoke from the exhausts, totally enclosed engine which had a deafening metallic ring from the vibration, leading link front forks which went UP when you braked.  A bike years ahead of its time.

5.  AJS 600 twin, bought as it had been converted into a 'chopper'.  The first weekend, took my mate on the back for a spin down the main Grimsby/Cleethorpes road.  Was puzzled by the whining noise until the bike 'threw' us both off!  Discovered that the rear tyre had been sliced in two by a 2" bolt the previous owner had used to secure the back number plate on with!  :o

Best of all - the one that got away - Ariel Square 4, 1000cc, immaculate, he wanted 18 for it and I only had 15 so he wouldn't sell!  If I knew then.....   I would have robbed a bank!!!

General observations -
we had X ply tyres with a flat tread across one third of the diameter. Even a wet white line could make you wobble!
we had steering dampers on the front forks to stop you breaking your thumbs with a 'tank slapper'!
we had jeans and a Belstaff jacket (overtrousers if you were 'wimpy') and a skid lid made of f/g and cork (optional)!
we had drum brakes and drove (raced) with other traffic, all of which had a 30 mph stopping distance of 2 miles!

Its amazing any of us are still alive to tell the tale  O0

I'm glad I haven't been tempted by these modern back-breakers, no time to see the scenery.

Maybe one day....   a nice plodding Ural twin (with side car to stop me falling off)  {-) {-) {-)

Danny
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DickyD

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 08:47:38 pm »

Even then you'd probably hit something Danny. O0
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omra85

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 09:00:42 pm »

But only if I was AIMING for you Dicky  :kiss:
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Martin13

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2008, 12:07:18 am »

If only swmbo would let me have one now :'( :'(

In my early days of youth and when I had hair or at least more of it, English bikes were the rage in Oz. They may have leaked oil everywhere but at least they did not fade in the sun as per the Jap bikes.

Had many a collection of bikes over the years ( usually about 8 in the stable) but my favourites were:-

Triumph 1948, 500cc Speed Twin,
Triumph 1974, 750cc Bonneville - hated the Amal carbs and
Norton Dunstall 1972, 850cc Roadster - stepped off this one at 90mph along the Great Ocean Road, Victoria. Slab of VB tinnies suffered badly.

Martin Down Under
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botchit

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2008, 02:43:46 pm »

Cut my teeth and a lot of other bits of me on a frannie barnet and a james cadet on the local fields with some mates. 1st bike was the immortal bsa bantam on road, passed test on it and got a b31 with side car.Being clever took sidecar off and used to regularly fall off trying  to get up the kirb at home.Its when i first learnt to dance like a red indian due to kick backs mum thought it funny dad had other words for me.Had daytona for a while then discovered honda with its electric start and chrome everything also found castrol r40 could be entertainnig in a mates ariel arrow full seat and tank with bubble fairing and expansion chambers a beaut.Finnished with ajs 500 still got manual somewhere.Would like another as i reach my dotage but wife said fat boys only  go squidge at my age not a bit like flubber. Ah well memories of tts and dragon rallies and good mates you lose track of  stay though.
A tear in my eye now   cos the dog not only  just got my last rolo its got the whole bloody packet so much for reminiscing
Bye 4 now Botchit
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sheerline

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2008, 10:36:24 am »

I am still doing it, I bought it as a complete wreck, the engine came in a bucket and 50% had to be thrown away.
The bike was originally a T100c but I put it together as a standard road going machine. It's been on the road for ten years now, does not leave oil on the driveway and has been a reliable beast. Itonly comes out in fine weather but this year I have put it off the road as I have been concentrating on my old Austin. I miss it when the sun comes out and will probably get back on it next year. One fellow at the MOT test centre said "Why do you blokes bother with these old things when there are much better bikes out there for you to ride around on!" My reply was " If I couldn't ride around on this bike, I wouldn't bother riding a bike at all as my enjoyment comes from the riding experience this machine gives and I never tire of listening to the exhast note" I also meet a lot of interesting people who want to stop and chat about their motorcycle days gone by.
The great thing about these old machines is the complete experience of ownership, it's not just about buying a bike for transport because if that was the case, there are millions of better machines out there to be had.
I have posted the pic on another thread a while back but here it is is again. It's a bit low res so don't enlarge it too much.
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Martin13

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 09:42:36 am »

" My reply was " If I couldn't ride around on this bike, I wouldn't bother riding a bike at all as my enjoyment comes from the riding experience this machine gives and I never tire of listening to the exhaust note" I also meet a lot of interesting people who want to stop and chat about their motorcycle days gone by.
The great thing about these old machines is the complete experience of ownership, it's not just about buying a bike for transport because if that was the case, there are millions of better machines out there to be had.


Sheerline - How True O0 It's the pure enjoyment of re-building and riding a classic. I miss my Triumphs and Norton, these too were rebuilt from complete wrecks. I remember many a time, myself with friends would stop somewhere for a smoke or whatever and people would come over for a chat and see the beauty of days gone past.

It's this reason I no longer ride - just cannot find a classic that's affordable...

Martin still dreamin
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malcolmfrary

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I think it comes from The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy; viz the answer to The Question of Life, the Universe and Everything.
(The question being what is 9 times 6?)
Come back, Douglas Adams - your towel is getting lonely............
FLJ
Sorry FLJ, either wrong question or wrong answer. ;)
Arthur was using a non-standard scrabble set to determine the question to the answer for the question of life,the universe and everything, and was was thus doomed to get the wrong answer.  Or prove that our concept of maths has had us barking up the wrong tree, which could also explain a lot.

My beast was a Panther 100S with a Busmar D/A to help stop it falling over.  600 all in one pot, a half compression lever so that if you got the timing wrong you were a bit less likely to end up standing on top of the petrol tank, and to bring you to a sudden stop if when you forgot to reset it.  The broken steering damper was not an advantage, but assisted muscle growth in the upper arms.  I recall that while I had it the Stones had a hit that had a line "I wish someone would come along and run into it and wreck it".
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RipSlider

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Re: Triumph motorcycles.......& other things that nearly killed me!
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2008, 03:12:41 pm »

I've got a a few bikes that my Old Man, with a little help from me when I was a youngster, restored.

couple of BSA Bantams
BSA gold flash (or maybe a gold star - gold something anywho )
Couple of nortons that I can't remember what they are - although one is a works racing bike.
Vellocette Viper
Vellocette Thruxton ( actually one of the old works racing machines that was used in 3 day trails )

Everything re-built and then disassembled and hung on the garage wall or in the garage roof wrapped up in diesil soaked rags ( yeah.. i know.. i know .. big fire risk  :( )

It was going to be his pension, but unfortunately the Big C got him first.

Currently trying to work out what to do with them. Not really much demand for them that I can see,

My mum used to *hate* them - he used to come home with a trailer containing a load of bits and a big lump of rust. Which meant that Ma used to loose the bath tub for a few days while the bath was filled with disiel and me and him set to on the initial clean and de-rusting. My arm used to ache for days afterwards, and I'd get bad headaches from the fumes. Once a handle bar got dropped into the bath ( by him thank god ) and rust filled disel went slopping out of the bath and onto my Ma's new floor. Who knew that rusty desil could stain Lino?


Steve
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