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[gary r uk]

hi guys
we all go on about club insurance as some protection should a model leap out of the water and land in little Jimmy's lap which with a fast electric is possible if the driver should lose control.
but what happens if a fellow club member is sailing from a position where he can not see his model due to restricted vision and is talking and not paying attention and then hits a scale model and does a bit of damage.is the scale model covered under that clubs insurance or will the scale modeler just have to settle for an apology.
cheers
gary

[DickyD]

Thats all I got Gary.  :-\

[gary r uk]

Richard
that was more that i got but my Q still stands is there a claim under club insurance or does it just cover every body else
gary

[Colin Bishop]

We've been here before. How do you put a value on the damage. "My scale boat took me three years to build and umpteen man hours so £10,000?"  Or what is the market value?  Well, it's what someone would pay for it at a given point in time - could be anything couldn't it?

If you can't put an accurate price on it then you aren't going to get a payout.

It's a bit like photographic dealers if they lose your precious photos - cost of materials only.

Colin

[SteamboatPhil]

Unless the club has specific insurance I don't think the boats will be covered. Within the MPBA the insurance is for 3rd party only, and does not cover damage to boats (or in fact boats that are on an exhibition stand)
Tony at Walker Midgley should be able to help should you wish to insure your boats for damage.

[grasshopper]

I think as a norm - there is no cover for member to member injuries or damage to their property when you have club or association insurances.

Just remember, whenever you get an insurance policy (or any contract ) - read the small print - twice. If there's something you don't understand - ask. - There is absolutely no excuse for ignorance,  never assume you're covered - If they can find a way not to pay - they won't.

[OMK]

G'afternoon, gents.

Gary UK, can I ask a question? Was it one of your own boats that took the hit... and by one of your fellow club members?
In that case I sympathise, I really do.
The thing is, I can't offer any advice since none of us boaters' around here actually belong to any club and have never had reason to justify wasting a huge wad on insurance.
So pse pardon me for going slightly off course here, but you asked a good question and got me intrigued. I'm intrigued because I thought insurance was meant to be to exactly that. I mean, you pay your insurance fee, and, if something untowards should happen - as in your case - then surely your insurance should cover you.
But reading every reply here so far would suggest that insurance is still pretty much a grey area. Nobody seems to knew just where they stand regarding making a claim. But the general concensus seems to be, even though you are insured and even though you are the innocent party, that you're still very much in limbo.
Like I said, I'm probably talking out my bum since I know absolutely nothing of the legalities. But from where I'm standing it don't half look as though the whole insurance thing is, basically, just another rip-off fiasco. It seems that they have you over the proverbial barrel and it's looking like you'll have a fight on your hands trying to prove that the other guy was to blame. Now this is gonna sound cheesy, but can't you just bop him on the nose or something?

So why are all you guys spending good money on an insurance that doesn't even work? The so-called laws have it that you have to have insurance, so the law-abiding folk duly comply. But what's the point when no-one actually knows their legal position in the event of an accidents? As Grasshopper just said, there is no cover for member-to-member injuries/damage, so why in hell are the insurers taking your money in the first place?
Now PLEASE don't think I'm being cocky or cynical, but around here, if any of us should mess up, then we simply put right whatever we done wrong. No insurance, no arguments, no bad feelings..... we just get on with it. So, from my point of view, can you understand why I think this thing about insurance (especially them rip-off insurers) seems totally pointless.

Mate, I wish you all the luck in the world - I honestly do. I'm probably just as interested as you regarding where folk stand in such a situation as yourn.

[Colin Bishop]

This is the MPBA Insurace cover (with acknowledgements to their website).

MPBA Insurance 
Our new improved insurance cover is now operational 
Civil Liability –Insurance Cover by Royal & Sun Alliance Indemnity of £5,000,000
Entitled to cover : The Association itself, its committee members, its volunteers and each affiliated club & their affiliated members. Official events published in the Yearbook, Propwash, Website.
 
Cover : Our standard Civil Liability policy through Royal & Sun Alliance, which is written on a Claims Made basis -as described to you. All incidents that may give rise to a claim in the future must be advised at the time of occurrence.
 
Operative Time : Any recognized/ authorized activity of the MPBA (to include activities run by the clubs extending to social activities). Personal model boating activities.
 
Civil Liability : is a very wide wording that includes Public Liability (damage to third party property or persons), Product Liability (goods supplied), Errors & Omissions (advice given or not given), Member-to-Member Liability, Trespass, Libel, Slander and all other matters under Civil Law. Voluntary Helpers and the Interest of Principals are also included within the insurance. Property Damage Excess £100.00, Boat Damage Excess £250.00.
 
Territorial Limits : United Kingdom, whole of Ireland, members can ask for cover on a worldwide basis.
 
For further information contact Peter Revill (See MPBA Officials - National Officers...

[OMK]

They spell 'recognise' with a 'z', which implies that that are an American, or American-based company?
So aren't alarm bells ringing already?

Colin, you're a pretty knowledgeable bloke. And like I said just now, I'm quite useless when it come to matters of a legal nature.
But what does it mean when they mention property damage excess and boat damage excess? What do they mean by 'excess'?
And if you don't mind - just to sate my own curiosity - one more Q......
How much is the annual insurance fee for Mr. Average as things stand today? Is it expensive?

[gary r uk]

hi guys
yes the scale model was mine pictures on this site somewhere (scharnhorst)
the club have very specific rules about what sails and from where.
below is taken from the clubs website
To avoid the risk of collisions, a Club Rule has been made that fast electric boats must use the southwestern end of the lake (nearest the road) if there are slower boats present on the lake, the middle section is used for scale and submarines and the wildlife has the rest! Please note that wildlife has priority over boats at all times .
the cost of repairs was a length of James lane stanchions and a drop of super glue the member responsible for the hit on my model is a committee member so should have know better.
as much as i would have liked to have popped him on the nose or launched him in the lake enough self control remained.
but the Q remains.
if a member hits another member is that member covered.
if a member hits a non members model is he covered.
the minimum should be an apology and an offer to pay for repairs.
gary

[alan colson]

PMK, if you drive and have insurance you will have a voluntary excess, well this is the same. As regards the cost of insurance, it has been said in the past, join a club and the insurance should be included in the membership fee, check out your local clubs, prices will vary as many clubs have to pay for use of water, insurance, cost of newsletters and postage etc. etc.
Alan

[DickyD]

We pay £10 per year membership and that includes insurance.

[Colin Bishop]

I'm not particularly knowledgeable when it comes to insurance PMK. My models tend to be literally small scale and the chance of them injuring anyone is pretty remote. However, I do belong to the MPBA via the Countrywide Club and their insurance seems to be recognised at most venues requiring it. MPBA membership is £20 I think at the moment. As Richard says, club insurance can frequently be cheaper but from discussions I had concerning the Beale Park event, it appears that in some cases the club insurance may only cover your own club water/events. So it does indeed pay to read the small print. If you sink Stavros' new dinghy at Llanberis you may find you are not covered!

I've never expected my model boating insurance to be "fully comp". I imagine it would be very expensive to get that sort of cover, if not impossible, as insurance companies would not be able to gauge the level of risk to be able to set a premium. Maybe you could add the boat to your household insurance like you do with a bike or other items such as cameras which are taken away from home but I've never enquired about that.

My motor insurance isn't the cheapest on the market but it does provide fully comp for up to 180 consecutive days abroad in "Europe" which I find useful. A recent newspaper report suggested that a large percentage of motor policies revert to third party only once you drive onto the ferry.

Colin

[OMK]

What?!!... just ten pounds??!
Well that's not so bad. I thought it would have been loads more than that. And like Andy C. says, I guess some clubs have overheads, etc. But even if they charge £20.00... £30.00, it's still nowhere near as much I'd imagined it to be.

Thanks to Andy C I now know what is meant by that excess thing. Pretty much as per car insurance, then.
So that means, if somebody prangs your boat, you have to give them (insurers) two-hundred-and-fifty quid first, yes?
But what happens if the damage is minimal and the repairs amount to no more than, say, fifty pounds. What happens then?

<Gary uk>
"the minimum should be an apology and an offer to pay for repairs."

Agreed. But now I'm confused. If you know the guy, then why is he procrastinating? Why does he not just bung you a few quid for your troubles and have done with it? What's the matter with the man?

Colin, yours just came in as I was about to hit the send button. Thanks for the info'.
It's a bit of an eye-opener for me, especially after reading: "My models tend to be literally small scale and the chance of them injuring anyone is pretty remote".
You know, at the risk of sounding like I've been on another planet for the past umpteen years, that was a real eye-opener because it never ever occured to me that it might be ME that hits someone else's boat. I guess the chaps down our pond all think the same way. But none of us are too bothered about the inevitable odd dent or scratch. We're all past our teenage years now so it's very rare to see the boy-racer type mentality there. Ergo, insurance is a subject that rarely gets mentioned - if ever.

[gary r uk]

pmk
it was 2 years ago and i no longer have the model & am no longer a member plus there was a lot of politics going on at the time
after the hit i took to sailing on a Friday with the hanwell crowd not a senile fast electric driver amongst them they knew the lake rules and played by them
anyway all in the past now and it will be at least another 2 years before my bismarck is ready to sail he will have working guns to take care of any model i consider a threat
gary