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Author Topic: Sound systems  (Read 9921 times)

ianb

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Sound systems
« on: April 15, 2008, 11:01:59 AM »

I put a JJC turbo diesel master and turbo diesel slave and a horn slave into my almost finished Aziz. First model to have sound for me.

First test runs were in the pond last week. What a difference in realism! I was flabbergasted! Now I couldn't even consider building a model without sound.

However, as we all know, JJC sound modules are no longer available, so I have begun browsing the web for similar products for model boat use.  But my old brain is getting a little confused trying to find something for my next project which will give me everything the JJC units provided:

     2 engines running at once, independently  controlled master and slave, (gives a nice resonating rumble as there's always a slight difference in pitch between port and     stbd engines)
     realistic start-up sounds and shut down sounds, independently controlled
     pitch of sounds follows transmitter stick movement exactly, no audible jumps or hesitations
     plenty loud without distortion
     simple to wire up and set up

I did worry about the heat sink temperature on the master unit, but a tiny little computer fan (brushless and almost silent) seems to keep it cool enough.

So far I haven't found anything on the web that says clearly and unambiguously to me that this unit will perform just as well as the JJC, or even better.

Am I looking for something that is not available, or am I not able to understand the website descriptions of the product?

If its the latter, please say so. Don't worry, I'm not easily offended.

Ian

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boatmadman

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 12:03:32 PM »

Ian

Have a look at www.rcmodelworkshop.com

I saw them at Ellesmere recently and listened to some of the units. Now, I was a marine engineer and I was really impressed by the sound of the engines, the turbo cat in particular throbbed away nicely.

The builder records real engine sounds for his units. They have a good start up and tickover feature as well.

I intend to buy for my current project.

Only my opinion, no connection with the company.

Ian

ps, I just looked at the site - didnt know that business was suspended, sorry.
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 12:09:22 PM »

How about trying a company that sponsors this forum?

http://www.modelsolutions.ca/catalog_sound_systems.htm

FLJ
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ianb

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 12:46:48 PM »

Hi FLJ

Thanks for the links.

Actually the Modelsolutions of Canada site was one of the reasons for my writing this  plea for advice on the forum. Modelsolutions have a very professional-looking website, but it didn't explain to me exactly what the product would do and not do. I assume the sounds are very realistic, but I sure don't understand what is semi-proportional engine sound. And what is a 6 minute duration? And what happens after 6 minutes?

I had to assume that the site is meant for far more sophisticated customers than me.

So....... I thought that by asking on this forum I might be able to actually hear from people like yourself  who understand and use these things and could advise me on the comparisons, good and bad, between an available on the market product and my present JJC setup.

I will keep an eye on rcmodelworkshop and hope that they continue in business some time soon. Your comments make their units sound very interesting to my ears.

Ian
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 01:14:25 PM »

on the back of this months model boats are some sound units being sold by a UK company  http://www.shipwrightshop.com/index1.html  I have not tried them yet but I have always had good service from the company

http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/index.htm

HS93
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 03:48:12 PM »

Actually the Modelsolutions of Canada site was one of the reasons for my writing this  plea for advice on the forum. Modelsolutions have a very professional-looking website, but it didn't explain to me exactly what the product would do and not do. I assume the sounds are very realistic, but I sure don't understand what is semi-proportional engine sound. And what is a 6 minute duration? And what happens after 6 minutes?
Ian

OK - but my colleague David Harrison at MSC is really your man for teccy things!

'Semi-proportional' means that there are definite increments (steps) in the sound level as you go up from neutral to flat-out; I think it's either six or eight each way, but you don't really notice as they are quite gentle.

The '6 minute' thing means that you can have a maximum length to each sound clip of 6 minutes, so if you want all of Beethoven's Umpty Fifth Symphony then you'll only be able to record the first 6 minutes. After that it either stops or loops back to the beginning and starts again, whatever you've programmed it to do. In other words, if you want your twin caterpillar diesels to run all day then they will do.

The SFX4.2 unit will play one sound (from a maximum of four) at a time; the new SFX5 will play 2. The SFX4 is beautifully made and properly cooled - no iffy Q/C; scrappy little pieces of B&Q aluminium angle or shrink-wrap here. SFX5 will be all SMT and decidedly 21st century technology; current target date is July/August. You can't rush this guy - I've tried!!

If you hunt around on the MSC website you'll see a library of sounds. I've a copy of these sounds (na, na, na, naah na!) and they are real - not just real-istic. Their PT109 Startup and Run makes my hair stand on end - it's awesome.

The Shipwright units look very very  very much like the RAM units from the USA, which are synthesised (like the ACTion ones) as opposed to real digital recordings like JJC, RCMW and MSC. If you hit this link www.ramrcandramtrack.com then you can hear them on-line. IMHO they are no better than ours and are more expensive to purchase, as well. They seem to be intended more for cars and trucks (check out the wording on the Shipwright ad to see the bits they've left off from the RAM copy - very illuminating....... ;))

Don't forget in all of this that the reason you can't get JJC stuff any more is because it was unreliable or it just didn't work at all. The folk who rush to bid squintillions for it on Fleabay are just plain crackers.  OK, so I know that some people never had any problems with it but there must have been a satisfied Lada owner somewhere as well.................. takes all sorts.

Suit yourself.

FLJ
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red181

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2008, 12:13:59 AM »

FLJ, am I right in thinking you have an association with Model solutions Canada? and will soon be a UK distributor? I have swopped mail with the company, the only concerns I have is that the company is overseas, so if I have problems, its a long wait to ship back and forward, dont know what the warranty is, and I am told you have to take apart your transmitter, solder various connections, therefore invalidating any warranty on the tx , RC model workshop suspended? pity, his system appeared to be good at the recent ellesmere trade show, easy installation, good low rev/pitch sound, actual recording, no noticable repeat loop. For me, I needed the realism at high rev/speed, thats where my boats operate, and the sound kind of changed to an angry wasp at high revs. THe JJC systems could change the tickover speed, and pitch, although they said that a specific system could be made for me, such as JJC MTB or fast v8 sound.
I liked the rc model workshop guy, he was very sincere and was working very hard to promote his products, O0 however, If I had been him, I would have demonstrated the system in a boat, not with stereo car speakers in sound boxes, thus replicating what we have with our models, and did anybody else notice the extra amp connected to the system  behind the desk?  {-) {-)
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2008, 08:51:42 AM »

FLJ, am I right in thinking you have an association with Model solutions Canada? and will soon be a UK distributor? I have swopped mail with the company, the only concerns I have is that the company is overseas, so if I have problems, its a long wait to ship back and forward, dont know what the warranty is, and I am told you have to take apart your transmitter, solder various connections, therefore invalidating any warranty on the tx ,

1. Yes - that's the plan. I've been in correspondence with David Harrison for some months, helping him establish the exact system specifications and doing some of the drawings for the Manual.

2. We will be dealing in the new SFX5 which has been designed to be as bomb-proof as it's possible to make it, provided that you read the manual and don't do anything ridiculous (like connecting it to the mains or shorting the speaker wires together with power up).  Of course if someone does something really stupid then there will be a cost involved; no warranty covers misuse. As regards "a long way", it's only as far as your nearest post office............but these days that's getting to be a long way, isn't it?
 
Incidentally, just because something is made in the UK doesn't necessarily mean that getting it repaired is a doddle. Both "Ant" and I turn repairs around pretty darned quickly, but ask Stavros about certain other concerns.............and try getting a JJC unit repaired  :o It's also a fact that at least half of the units we get for repair actually work properly when I test them; RTFM is usually the problem!

3. No; the standard unit is run from the normal sticks/switches on your Tx and doesn't involve any tinkering about inside. You only need to modify the Tx if you buy the top-of-the-line unit which includes an 8-channel multiplex encoder/decoder for switching other on-board items like lights, horns etc. This is run from a small push-button keypad which sticks onto the Tx. The modification involves about 15 minutes' work and is very easy (three wires and a 3mm hole in the Tx case). We will offer a modification service at a nominal price for those who don't feel confident to do it themselves. As regards invalidating any warranty, well, that's your choice. You could always buy a Robbe/Futaba F18 with all its modules to do the same job........but if you can afford one of those then you could probably accompany your bent SFX unit personally to Ottawa!

For what it's worth, we demonstrate our units at shows using the same items which you would fit in your model. You can hear the sounds played through a range of speakers - using the same voltage as standard model installations - and then select and buy an identical speaker on the spot. What you hear is what you get. I don't need the hassle these days  8)

FLJ
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2008, 09:19:25 AM »

Are you going to bring one to Wicksteed park for us to look at?  O0
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2008, 10:33:38 AM »

Are you going to bring one to Wicksteed park for us to look at?  O0
If I've had one by then, yes! I do have a SFX4 and if I get the time to put it in a box with a speaker and a signal generator for the throttle control then I'll throw that in the car.
FLJ
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pakirk

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 04:23:42 PM »

Quote
and did anybody else notice the extra amp connected to the system  behind the desk?   

Hi all Yes there was an amp behind the display. I showed it to a lot of people. It is the same amp you get with the kit. nothing to hide It was to demonstrate how the amps can be linked together if required.
Try again.

Anthony
RCMW
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Stavros

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2008, 07:30:46 PM »

Gentelmen can I please ask you both very nicely not to turn up the volume on your sound systems at the Mayhem bash cos the one being displayed at the Epic show running through CAR speakers was too loud >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( It really spoiled the show for me and others and I only stayed for an hour.I would like to see the size model boat that car speakers would fit into!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously just think about it lads the average model boat can accommodate a 4inch speaker not a 3way shelf one for a car.

If me gets headache in Wickstead and it spoil the weekend well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WATER......................................................


Stavros
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pakirk

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2008, 06:57:10 PM »

Hi Stavros,
Good point.
It was loud wasnt it. I had an emence headache on the drive home on sunday. I will try and bring a model with me next time. more realistic.
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 07:46:27 PM »

I had an immense headache on the drive home on Sunday.

Ant - so did we!!  :o
 
FLJ (had the next stand to RCMW)
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John W E

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 09:31:58 PM »

By gum, its nice to know that this Unit is loud.   I wonder what 3 Merlin engines are going to sound like at full bore.  :D :D  Ah, from this little amplifier eh.  Must be loud if it drowns a Welshman's harmonic tones  :)

aye
john e
bluebird
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Stavros

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2008, 10:24:43 PM »

Bluebird believe you me if you can fit 2x car 3 way speakers in your boat I will hear you down here


Stavros
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John W E

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2008, 08:53:45 AM »

Stavros believe you me  :D :D :D :D if I get my way I am going to try and make me own, 3 amps in there - along with a couple of base speakers - hey I am going to pull the stereo apart just now - busy building two barges  to take two thirteen inch base speakers and a few tweeters ........ if I cant shoot them swans on the lake, I will deafen em..... yar vool capitan how many decibels...do we require to sink zeeee svan....give me my soldering iron  {-) {-) {-) {-) :o :D

aye
Bluebird alia FIZZ NO HAIR
 :D {-)
jOHN
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Stavros

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2008, 05:50:54 PM »

Oh me oh my keep taking those tabletts or the men in white coats will be round


Stavros
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John W E

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2008, 07:12:36 PM »

oh me oh my, it didnt work very well - blew the fuses

and by the way........when you become a  'proper' member of Mayhem, you get a free white coat man.

why aye
bluebird
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Stavros

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2008, 10:10:49 PM »

No Comment O0

Stav
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2008, 10:21:26 PM »

Quote
No Comment

I thought it was a pretty good likeness... ::)
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RantandRave

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2008, 02:29:40 PM »


Has anyone tried using the sound unit from model trains as sound unit for boats?
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Reade Models

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2008, 04:59:51 PM »



No, but we used to get loads of model railway guys asking if they could buy JJC (mostly twin cylinder steam engine) sound units for use in model trains....

The problem was that the model boat sound units were proportional to speed and designed to be operated by r/c gear - and most model trains aren't r/c operated.  I guess therefore the converse of the same principle applies?  if a sound unit is designed to be operated other than by r/c, how do you operate it in a boat (and would the sound be proportional to speed)?

Malc



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RantandRave

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Re: Sound systems
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2008, 10:09:44 PM »

What about the RC Tank (Tamiya) units?
I heard a real loud one at Beale park.
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