Topic: Large Scale Sail Winches (Read 38297 times)

JayDee · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2008, 11:53:28 am »

Hello All,

Thank you, thank you All very much.
Those words really mean a lot to me.

John.

cbr900 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2008, 02:05:51 pm »

One thing you can use for a winch in a large yacht is
a cordless drill motor and gearbox, I have installed one
in my own A Class Yacht and it works perfectly, I purchased
from the trash and treasure shop a box of cordless drills
27 in all for $15.00 minus battery packs, I have an ample
supply of winches and motors............

Roy

MikeK · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2008, 05:06:59 pm »

Hi Roy, that sounds interesting. How do you achieve proportional control ? Is it a micro switch set up? Years ago I made up a unit from an article in Model Boats, involving a split disc and wipers that worked reasonably well, but the weight was prohibitive for a racing model

regards
Mike

cbr900 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 24, 2008, 02:52:05 pm »

Mike,

No mate just through an ESC and you get forward and reverse
the same as any other winch, adjust the tension with the screw
setting adjuster, works a treat mate..........

Roy

Tom Eccles · « **Reply #29 on:** July 24, 2008, 08:10:07 pm »

Right,
Sorry about any delays in responding but SWMBO is not very well so I am busy building up my brownie points by being a little nursing angel.

Firstly Jaydee.. Just telling it like it is John

Secondly cbr900.. That seems to be an interesting method. I never thought of using an ESC (then again, anything electrical is a mystery to me).

MikeK.. Jaydee has an electrical screwdriver as a winch on his J Class and it looks a treat and works very well. I assume John that you will be going back to that setup following your adventures with the Hi-tech winch?

Again gentlemen thank you all for your input (electrical pun there)

:)

Bradley · « **Reply #30 on:** July 24, 2008, 08:52:31 pm »

The thought has occurred to me of using one of MFA/Como Drills geared motors with an appropriate drum :-\. Any comments, please.
Derek.

JayDee · « **Reply #31 on:** July 25, 2008, 12:06:26 am »

Hello,

My "Screwdriver Winch" is a little noisy, but very powerful, bought it from Woolworths years ago - - - under £5 !!!.
The drum is connected direct onto the output shaft of the Driver, also on the same shaft is a small gear wheel, which drives a bigger gear wheel.
The gear ratio is about 5 to 1, which means the drum turns about 4 times and then stops.

On the big gear wheel there is a small peg sticking out, which stops the winch, when it hits a micro switch.
When the winch is reversed, the wheel goes round again until the peg hits the other micro switch, and it stops again.
The switches turn off the supply to the motor.

It is all operated by a small servo, the arm moves and switches between two more micro switches, to make the winch run in and out.
The winch is NOT proportional, the TX stick has to centre, to stop the winch, but it works OK !!

The ESC idea I will have to try, may still keep my micro switches, to control the amount of travel.

John.

MikeK · « **Reply #32 on:** July 25, 2008, 08:48:52 am »

Thanks for the info on your screwdriver winch Roy. Like others I never thought about using an ESC, indeed food for thought. First move a visit to the next car boot sale and hope to beat any other local Mayhemmers to the knackered electrical gear stall

Thanks also Clegg & John for the other alternative adaptation, and taking the trouble to make up a circuit diagram, or is it a schematic ::)
FYI John that set up I made from an old MB article involved two discs of pcb material about an inch dia. one had two brass wipers and the other a flat of brass with a narrow strip of the insulation dividing it. The flat plate was on the end of the winch shaft and the wipers mounted on a servo. In use moving the servo arm moved the wipers to contact the plate and cause the winch to rotate until such time the wipers were back in the 'dead' strip. The setup was wired so as to reverse the circuit depending on the direction of the wipers. It worked well enough despite my cack handed fabrication of the electrical bits . I mention it to you as your obvious skill and knowledge of circuitry may produce a usable set up..................then again there is the ESC

regards

Mike

JayDee · « **Reply #33 on:** July 25, 2008, 02:21:56 pm »

Hello,

Been busy !, just tried cbr900s ESC winch mod and it works a treat !!.
Again, not proportional, but very effective, good idea Roy !.

Looks a lot better than my Servo and two micro switches, my ESC was made by the Romans I think, it is VERY old,
but the system works OK.

Done a mod to the circuit diagram as well - - - I have been busy !!.

John.

MikeK · « **Reply #34 on:** July 25, 2008, 04:50:44 pm »

Yes indeed you certainly haven't been sitting around sunbathing. Another nice circuit diagram - you obviously use some cad software to produce the diagrams ?
I wish I still had the old copy of M Boats with that article in, as that system was proportional. I mentioned it to you to see if I could arouse your curiosity on the wiring of such a beast as I cannot remember and do not have the expertise to conjour it up. Sneaky eh !

regards

Mike

MikeK · « **Reply #35 on:** July 25, 2008, 04:50:55 pm »

Yes indeed you certainly haven't been sitting around sunbathing. Another nice circuit diagram - you obviously use some cad software to produce the diagrams ?
I wish I still had the old copy of M Boats with that article in, as that system was proportional. I mentioned it to you to see if I could arouse your curiosity on the wiring of such a beast as I cannot remember and do not have the expertise to conjure it up. Sneaky eh !

regards

Mike

MikeK · « **Reply #36 on:** July 25, 2008, 04:59:38 pm »

Sorry about the repeat mail. Don't know what happened. Tried to kill one and was chucked off the server ! :( Had to sneak back in via Google !

Mike

JayDee · « **Reply #37 on:** July 25, 2008, 05:12:56 pm »

Hello Mike,

CAD Software eh !, think thats what I am using ??.
Circuit Diagrams, done courtesy of good old "PAINT".
Dead easy to use, in everybody's PC at NO extra cost !!

John.

MikeK · « **Reply #38 on:** July 25, 2008, 05:48:56 pm »

Thanks for that John - added to the list of something else for me to have a go at

Mike

tigertiger · « **Reply #39 on:** July 26, 2008, 06:08:01 am »

Hi Jaydee

What winch do you have on the Bluenose? Is the drill motor?

JayDee · « **Reply #40 on:** July 26, 2008, 09:16:56 am »

Hello Tiger,

Bluenose has two winches on a "Y" lead.
They were made by David Andrews, "Super Heavy Duty" type, he was the original owner of Whirlwind winches.
This was 18 years ago, David recommended two winches, because the sail area of Bluenose is just over 3500 sq inches.
Had a small problem with one of them a few years ago, needed cleaning, but no other bother since.

John.

roycv · « **Reply #41 on:** July 26, 2008, 11:49:02 am »

Hi all, I run a few sailing boats a one metre J class Endeavour is the biggest and Hitec sail winches work well.
But it seems to me that you never really look at where the Tx. lever is for operating the sails, you look at the trim of the sails. This is a situation where accurate electronic proportional control is superceded by the eye.

So, if I go any bigger I shall try using a (Model Motors Direct) motor with an appropriate gear reduction to a drum and limit switches on the sheets for maximum in and out conditions for the sails.

Must be cheaper, as has been mentioned with the old drill motors. Has any one tried a limit switch system?
This way you would operate the sail Tx. lever up and down according to whether you want the sails in or out.

regards Roy

tigertiger · « **Reply #42 on:** July 27, 2008, 01:57:35 am »

This is turning into a very intersting topic, and not just for me by the looks of things.

My specific interest is that I am planning a couple of big builds. Like Jaydee's. And I don't want to spend a fortune on specialist sail winches if I can avoid it.

But I am not savvy about some of the approaces for stop switches etc. The only ones I have seen in books are mechanical, and again only in a diagram. I have now seen a photo or clear figure showind a stop switch.

tigertiger · « **Reply #43 on:** July 27, 2008, 01:59:24 am »

Quote from: JayDee on July 26, 2008, 09:16:56 am

Bluenose has two winches on a "Y" lead.
They were made by David Andrews, "Super Heavy Duty" type,

John
Do you think one/two cordless screwdriver/drill motors would be up to the job of hauling in the sails for Bluenose?

JayDee · « **Reply #44 on:** July 27, 2008, 11:49:58 am »

Hello Tiger,

An electric screwdriver is definitely up to the job of hauling the sails on Bluenose !!.
Wish they had been around 18 years ago, would have saved me nearly £200.

The ones to look for have a larger diameter, they are the ones with the bigger motors.
Inside the case is a ribbed construction, amounting to about 1/8 inch thickness, so the motor diameter will be about 1/4 inch LESS
than than the outside diameter of the device.

The output shaft has a thrust bearing only, so the winch will need ball races on both sides of the Drum.
I am in the process of building another winch at the moment, will post pictures of it when finished.

This one was one of the slim line, bend in the middle type, motor and gearbox in one half, batteries in the other.
But even the slim one has massive torque, with a bit in the "Chuck" its almost impossible to stall the thing by hand.
Holding the bit with a pair of pliers is VERY hard to stall it.

Fitted into a model boat, some thought should be given about a "Weak Link", in case of malfunction.
Leaving the torque limiter on the device is a very good idea!!.
This is crying out for another circuit diagram, this time with switches on the sheets, instead of on the Drum,
will get onto it ASAP !.

John.

a3nige · « **Reply #45 on:** July 27, 2008, 11:53:59 am »

Quote from: tigertiger on July 27, 2008, 01:57:35 am

This is turning into a very intersting topic, and not just for me by the looks of things.

My specific interest is that I am planning a couple of big builds. Like Jaydee's. And I don't want to spend a fortune on specialist sail winches if I can avoid it.

Tiger, what are you thinking of building? I am looking at maybe a 1/20th or 1/16 J class. Big but beautiful.

Nige

JayDee · « **Reply #46 on:** July 27, 2008, 01:02:58 pm »

Hello All,

Done some mods to the circuit diagram to place the limit switches on the sheeting lines.
The system MUST be kept in tension at all times, a long elastic cord along the deck will do,
or under it if you feel brave !, - - - it does perish!.

The only problem I can forsee is the over run of the winch, AFTER is as been stopped by the Limit Switches.
On my Drum winch I solved this by making a longer arm on the switch, but it could be a problem with a sheet running through a Ring.
Screwdrivers do not stop dead, when turned off !.
So, come on chaps, HOW???.

John.

cbr900 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 27, 2008, 02:17:57 pm »

I think some of you guys have slightly missunderstood me,
when I said what I was using, they are not cordless screw
drivers but cordless drill drivers, as I said I bought a box of
27 cordless drills for $15 dollars, and use the whole drill
mechanism as the winch, I will take a couple of pics
tomorrow and post on here showing how.........

Roy

tigertiger · « **Reply #48 on:** July 27, 2008, 03:16:46 pm »

Hi CBR

I think we are on the same hymn sheet here.
The main differences that I can see between drills and drivers are speed, and drivers have a torque limiter.
I could be worng though.

There are smaller cordless drivers than cordless drills, but many are the same size.

tigertiger · « **Reply #49 on:** July 27, 2008, 03:24:48 pm »

Quote from: a3nige on July 27, 2008, 11:53:59 am

Tiger, what are you thinking of building? I am looking at maybe a 1/20th or 1/16 J class. Big but beautiful.

Hi Nige
I have a few builds in mind. I was going to do a scratch build next, but I have jsut got myself an ARTR 900mm yacht at ex factory price. (42quid with 3 channel radio). So that has jumped the queue.

Possible order of next build.
1:10 Scale Louise Heloise (not big) for practice,
1:6 scale Louise Heloise, crewed by Action Man. This will be approching 2m I think.

followed by

Royal Yacht Britannia at something between 1:16 to 1:12 scale.
Or Altair schooner to a similar size.

Maybe going up to 3m with two part hull and two part masts. But this is pipe dreams.

News:

Author Topic: Large Scale Sail Winches (Read 38297 times)

Tom Eccles

Bradley