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Author Topic: Billings Colin Archer  (Read 7665 times)

Don

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Billings Colin Archer
« on: July 21, 2008, 05:52:08 AM »

Anyone know of a Colin Archer build?
I thought there was one on here but I can't seem to find it.
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wideawake

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2008, 09:00:01 AM »

Anyone know of a Colin Archer build?
I thought there was one on here but I can't seem to find it.

Hi Don

I don't know of a build thread, but would be very interested if there is one.  I've just got my kit from under the bench and made a start on it.   I posted a question a few weeks ago and didn't get a reply.  However I eventually found the answer in an obscure palce in the "instructions".

Cheers

Guy
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tigertiger

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2008, 09:10:41 AM »

I did a quick google and nothing jumped out.

I have seen the model about, but cannot remember a build thread.
There might be a magasine article.
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Don

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2008, 09:51:17 AM »

Guy

Have you started yours yet?  I just picked one up today (or yesterday). 
Have you found a source for sails?
I don't plan to start it for quite a while, it's was for sale locally and I just could not pass it up.
I'll look through the instructions and see if I can find what you are talking about.

Don
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wideawake

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2008, 10:42:07 AM »

Hi Don

I've just started  on mine after having it under the bench for a couple of years.   I've previously built the Billings Karoline so was prepared for the very limited instructions!  Re sails - the kit comes with preprinted sailcloth as does the Karoline.   The fabric isn't ideal (rather coarse and stiff) so I might look at making them from something else.  Plenty of time to decide about that later :-)  The problem I had was in whether piece 2 (the long piece in the bottom of the hull) shoyuld be bent to br glued to the hull bottom or left horizontal.   Eventually I decided to bend it and later found it shown that way in the diagram showing radio and motor installation.  The photo's aren't clear enough.

BTW there are some excellent pics of both the original and a model on http://www.randen.no/

One thing they show clearly is that the bowsprit in the model is not correct.   The original is clearly square in section at the inboard end.   I shall either make a replacement or modify the provided tapered dowel.

Cheers

Guy
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longshanks

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2008, 10:17:18 PM »

Hi Guys,
Dont know if its the one your after.

Article in Model Boats June 2007.

'Colin Archer - Converting 606 series kit from Billings into a sailing model'

I have the article here if you need it

Regards
Longshanks
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wideawake

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2008, 10:24:32 PM »

Hi Longshanks

The 606 is the smaller Billings version of the Colin Archer.   The one I'm building is the larger 414 model.   That one is advertised as a sailing model.

Thanks for the response.

Cheers

Guy
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Don

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2008, 08:41:48 AM »

Guy

I will not even be stating on mine for at least a month.  It may sit under the "bench" even longer.  I have not even looked at the instructions yet.  I ask about the sails because this kit did not come with them, but everything else seems to be there.  What are you doing for ballast and for electronics?  I will most probably just stick to what's in the kit on this one.

I am working on a Mary J Ward right now and it's proving to be time consuming.  Because of ME, not the kit.  For instance I'm getting ready to plank the deck and for a change making my own planking.  Cutting a 1/4" wide X 36" long plank is turning out to be quite a task but I think I have finally figured it out.  All because I want to use different type of wood instead of the usual basswood, oak, etc..  I also wanted to make my own chain plates and change the look of the spar jaws and some other stuff as I get to them.

Anyway I would appreciate some pictures as you progress if it's not asking too much.

Don


 
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roycv

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2008, 11:11:12 AM »

Hi Don, I am interested in 'how you figured out' cutting your own deck planks.  I have cut planks on my small Proxxon circular saw and at that length there is a certain amount of wander in the finished plank.  I first noticed it when I cut hull planking in liteply but I was able to sand out the relatively small problems.
You do get quite a big wastage in using a circular saw on narrow planks.  I found using a blade difficult over a 36 inch length.  My X-acto plank cutter was rather in-exact!
regards to all Roy
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Don

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2008, 12:00:40 PM »

Roy

Well, well and here I thought it was just me all this time.  First I tried the X-acto plank cutter and found that the blade would apparently bend when least expected thus leaving a wavy plank.  So I purchased a Dremel table saw and upgraded the fence to no avail.  Same as you I found that the plank wanders and again produces a wavy plank.  So I thought that I might be pushing the wood too fast.  Nope no matter how slow I went I got the same result.  So then I guessed that I just did not have enough experience and kept at it.  Well the best I ever got was about 4 usable ¼” wide strips out of a 3” wide board.  So I started reading on here.  Ask a couple questions like “how is the best way to cut” but never really got a good answer.  So more reading, then it occurred to me.  I was looking at a picture of someone cutting a piece of planking about 7” long and they were using a steel ruler as a straight edge.  Well if it works for 7” why not 36”.  So I put a 2” x 36” x 1/16” down and place ¼” marks, lined up the steel yardstick.  Got out a heavy X-acto blade (not #11) and began to cut.  I found that if I tried to cut the wood in one pass sometimes I would wonder off the steel edge and end up off the wood.  However if I passed the blade over the wood with less force and made 3 passes it worked quite well.  The other thing I found I could do is to go back and salvage some of the wavy wood.

I use a worktable that is 24” x 60”.  On top of that I use a ½” plywood top.  I pulled the top out about 1 ½” to form a lip.  I used several clamps to hold the wood and steel ruler in place.  This allows me to have both hands free and concentrate on the cutting.  All the setup time adds up, but I get a good cut, and after all how often do you cut planking.

I’m sure that there is a better way but for me it works.

Don
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tigertiger

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2008, 12:46:41 PM »

I have found that if you clamp the steel rule at one end (at least one end- I can hold the other), and cut towards myself (but slightly to the side not aiming for the 'butcher's point'), it helps. I usally cut with a 1m steel rule, so just under one metre is possible.
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Don

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2008, 01:04:55 PM »

I have found that if you clamp the steel rule at one end (at least one end- I can hold the other), and cut towards myself (but slightly to the side not aiming for the 'butcher's point'), it helps. I usually cut with a 1m steel rule, so just under one metre is possible.

That's true, but if I use several clamps, I have both hands free.  I think I will be looking for a longer steel rule.
tigertiger - what have you been working on lately?
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wideawake

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2008, 09:19:39 PM »

Guy

I will not even be stating on mine for at least a month.  It may sit under the "bench" even longer.  I have not even looked at the instructions yet.  I ask about the sails because this kit did not come with them, but everything else seems to be there.  What are you doing for ballast and for electronics?  I will most probably just stick to what's in the kit on this one.

Anyway I would appreciate some pictures as you progress if it's not asking too much.

Don



Hi Don

I'll try to post the odd photo now and then, though I'm not a compulsive recorder of a build.  Half the time I get engrossed, finish something and then remember I should have taken pics! 

So far I've done the basics to the hull but not fitted the sub-deck.   I'm in no hurry to do that until I've schemed out the r/c set-up in case I make life difficult for myself.   I've also stained the dowel for  the spars and done a lot of prep work on the winch.   If that sounds a lot it's because I tend to escape to the narrow boat on the moorings where I have my workshop ATM for days at a time but only infrequently so I do whole days of work at a time.  I'm working on modifying the supplied bowsprit to give the square aft end.  I'm getting there but if I'd got access to my lathe I'd have taken a different approach and turned down the last few inches of the taper to a constant diameter and then taken a piece of square section wood, drilled it through and glued it over the reduced section.   I may redo it that way if I'm not happy with my present attempt.

There are a number of differnces between the model and the reference pics I have, the above being one.   Others are the cockpit area around the mizzen mast which is much simplified on the model, the timberheads which are shaped on the original and simply chunks of rectangular section on the model and the bow and sten eends of the rail which are supplied as plastic mouldings whereas the originals are simply continuations of the wooden rail.   Since the rails are stained, I may have to fabricate wooden ones if I can.  I'm sure I'll spot others, some worth altering and some not.

R/C-wise I shall use my Spektrum 2.4Ghz kit with a Hitec 785 sail winch for the main sheet.   The jib and fore staysail sheets are led back to the cockpit so I hope to operate at least the jib sheets from there using a servo with a double ended sail arm.   I've not decided about the mizzen yet.  I'd quite like to try Ivor Bittle's method using 2 servos and a transmitter mix function to allow sheeting in and out and also hauling to port or starboard.    WRT the rudder, the temptation is to go for a standard pushrod operation via a slot in the stern.  However, since the original didn't work like that, I've wondered about trying a pair of transparent lines attached to the tiller and run across to each rail and under the deck to a servo with a suitable double arm.

Has anyone tried that?

BTW I've fitted the prop shaft as I'm modelling CA as she is now, but I doubt that I can be bothered to fit a motor.

WRT ballast, the instructions advise 6kg ballast will be needed.  I'm going to use 5.5kg of lead shot poured into the bilge and then topped up with polyester resin.   I'll save 0.5 kg until the model's complete and then use that plus any extra needed to get to the waterline.   I'll probably put that in cotton bags so it can be moved around if required.


Cheers

Guy
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Don

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2008, 10:59:10 PM »

Roy

I have since added one more step to the planking.  I find that sometimes there are very small splinters left behind so I now knock them off with some sand paper before I move on to the next plank.

tigertiger

The real reason why I use clamps is because as I get older I find that my grip is not what it use to be.  Since I really don't want the steel rule to move I clamp it in many places.

Guy

Well I could not resist any longer.  I got out the instructions and had a look.

Your original queston was on part 2, was it figure 14 where you found the answer?

I know what you mean about photos, I'm the same way.

As far as photos of the original goes I have not looked yet.  I did find a person who has built 2 CA's and send him a message.
I'll post the response when it arrives.  His photo's so far are just of the finished kit.  If I find any of the original I will post them.

I found the part about the ballast, sounds to me like adding 5.5 to start with is a good plan.

As far as sail winche's go I have not even considered it.

Enjoy your time at the shop.

Don
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wideawake

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2008, 11:12:58 PM »

Guy

Well I could not resist any longer.  I got out the instructions and had a look.

Your original queston was on part 2, was it figure 14 where you found the answer?

I know what you mean about photos, I'm the same way.

As far as photos of the original goes I have not looked yet.  I did find a person who has built 2 CA's and send him a message.
I'll post the response when it arrives.  His photo's so far are just of the finished kit.  If I find any of the original I will post them.

I found the part about the ballast, sounds to me like adding 5.5 to start with is a good plan.

As far as sail winche's go I have not even considered it.

Enjoy your time at the shop.

Don


Yes it was fig 14 Don.   AFAICS tht's the only place it's clear what to do.

I'm definitely enjoying my days in the workshop even if I feel I ought to be out and about as the weather is so nice.  Only one more day to go though :-( I have to return to my partner's cottage on Friday and am working away for 10 days after that - well working 5 of them anyway!   then to Cropredy for the Fairport Convention Festival and then boatin - full size so probably little time in the w/s until the autumn.   HoweR there are some jobs like assembling blocks that I can do anywhere.  Plus there are always the sails to make :-(

Guy
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2008, 01:23:41 AM »

Hi Don, I am interested in 'how you figured out' cutting your own deck planks.  I have cut planks on my small Proxxon circular saw and at that length there is a certain amount of wander in the finished plank.  I first noticed it when I cut hull planking in liteply but I was able to sand out the relatively small problems.
You do get quite a big wastage in using a circular saw on narrow planks.  I found using a blade difficult over a 36 inch length.  My X-acto plank cutter was rather in-exact!
regards to all Roy


Roy,

I successfully cut planks on my Proxxon table saw by first reducing a piece of the chosen timber to the required plank width, in my case 6mm, then setting the saw fence to the required thickness, which was 1.5 mm, then I was able to cut as many planks as I needed. The main thing is not to try and cut too fast or the saw motor will be overloaded, the indicator light turns red.
I used a Ryobi thicknesser, and the timber concerned was New Guinea rosewood, which is quite hard, but the Proxxon did a great job.

Peter.
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Don

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2008, 12:18:48 PM »

Peter

If I understand you correctly you ended up cutting the thickness of the plank not the width?

Don
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Don

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2008, 12:47:05 PM »

Guy

This appears to be a build page.

http://navi.modelisme.com/article27.html

Don
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wideawake

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2008, 01:12:19 PM »

Guy

This appears to be a build page.

http://navi.modelisme.com/article27.html

Don

Thanks don.  Interestingly the highlighted link at the bottom of the first page goes to the other set of pics I've already mentioned.

BTW The other thing I intend to modify is the way the masts are stepped.  The Billings Karoline kit has a clever idea in that the mast is stepped in a tube with the heel resting on a spring.   The tube and mast are cross drilled below the deck so that with the spring compressed, a pin can be inserted.  This reduces the mast height by about 1/2 inch.  If the standing rigging is set up in this condition, it automatically tightens up when the pin is removed.  The pin can be re-inserted when the boat is stored to take the tension off the rigging.

This seems an excellent idea and I intend to adapt the CA masts to step in the same way.
Cheers

Guy
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dreadnought72

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2008, 01:49:41 PM »

Got out a heavy X-acto blade (not #11) and began to cut.  I found that if I tried to cut the wood in one pass sometimes I would wonder off the steel edge and end up off the wood.  However if I passed the blade over the wood with less force and made 3 passes it worked quite well.  The other thing I found I could do is to go back and salvage some of the wavy wood.

Don, that's the method I use and have never had a problem with it, except one - occasionally slicing transparently thin bits of skin off my fingertips. Looking in the toolbox for a solution, I now ALWAYS cut against one of these:



The handle means that my fingers are out the way of the blade, and I can apply more pressure than with a ruler. Using no clamps also means that it's easier and quicker to move the cutting edge to the next cut position - ideal for loads of planks.

Andy
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2008, 12:55:48 AM »

Hi Don, yes, that's correct. I have found it much more accurate to cut thin strips from a thicker piece of wood than wide strips from a thin flat sheet, as it is possible to get a much more even cut. As others have said, cutting flat sheet into strips can result in a wavy cut.
Peter.
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roycv

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2008, 12:06:09 PM »

Hi all, thanks for the feed back.
 Wideawake,
 I have used monofilament line to work rudders quite successfuly, also chain.
With the monofilament line I guide it thru' hard plastic tubing.
 At the servo end I take the 2 lines from the tiller through the ends of the servo arm and bring them together I have an anchored screw (at right angles) on the servo top and the two lines are attached to a hook and then to a nut on the screw thread, this means you can lightly tension the system in use.
Hope that is clear.
With chain on the deck of a fishing boat or similar, it looks nice, but you cannot 'push' chain so it has to be kept under light tension if it is to be threaded through tubes.
regards Roy
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wideawake

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Re: Billings Colin Archer
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2008, 01:09:02 PM »

Hi Roy

Thanks for that info.  It seemed a possible option to me and it's good to know that someone else has tried it.  I'm away from the workshop now so intend to spend some time scheming out the r/c installation.  I've drawn up a blank deck plan with the important bits(masts, hatch, sheet runs etc.) marked to work on.  It'll keep me occupied until I can get back to practical work.

on a separate note i've just ordered a boiler for the Wideawake hull from which I took my nickname so there're plenty of things to think about there too!

Cheers

Guy
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