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Author Topic: An interesting domestic fuel forecast  (Read 8124 times)

Reade Models

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2008, 06:42:13 AM »


Quote
True Malc, but the South of England wasn't necessarily where it is now situated on the globe and may have been nearer the equator. Plate tectonics.

I knew model boater's would have the answer!

If we all simultaneously hitched our tugs to the beach a little east of Land's End and started pulling south west, we could be off the coast of north Africa by next Wednesday!

 {-) {-) {-)

(Not as daft as some of the ideas you read about)?

Malc




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boatmadman

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2008, 08:16:20 AM »

Ghost,

Dinorwig, you omitted a vital point, how does the water get to the higher reservoir? It is pumped there by the water turbines running as pumps, powered by electricity.

Dinorwig is a short run peak lopping station, this means that in times of short duration high demand, it is run to boost the power supply to the grid.


Ian
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polaris

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2008, 02:09:50 PM »


Dear All,

How's this for a scenario...

Using the 1920's & 30's as two decades of major privately generated utility electricity supply (hydro only). If all the hydro installations extant during those two decades in GB were reinstalled, this could equate to a 10% national usage contribution to the Grid. If, however, one looks at old water mills (wherever they might exist in a reinstatable position), this could equate to an additional 5% +. These are min. figures.

I am personally aware of many unused installations in this County alone. The first was a 150hp low head turbine unit (viz., used a large flow in through a 21" pipe from a leat (the latter from a small weir). The principal uses the falling weight of water after the turbine to create suction, which, after a fall of 17 feet is significant. This powered apx. 150 homes in the 1920's and 30's (24/7) - multiply this x 3 for three in tandem which could easily be done. The second was a pelton type of apx. 100hp that supplied apx. 50 homes during the same two decades (this source could easily be x 3 facilities). There are four locations around here where peltons were used to supply very significant supplies of elec. for lead mines (could be x 2 in tandem easily). There are apx. 200 miles of leats (in total), in this area that supplied water for mine water wheels (probably 100 + wheels in number ranging in size from 24 feet to 50 feet - so available hp. is very significant). The source supply of water is the same now as it was then. There is a disused woollen mill facility not far away that has/had four 25 foot wheels in tandem supplied by a good river - prob. about 45 to 50hp each: there are some ten similar wool and corn mill situations in this County alone - without looking very hard!

A surprising number of farms generated via peltons in the mountains, and many other lower lying farms had water wheels varying from 15 feet to 20feet dia.. Unknown hp. total of course, but a couple of thousand possibly anyway.

So, using this as a private supply situation guide for one county alone (and not considering any other potential sites - of which there are many), the hp. (horse power), potential could be said to be in the region of a min. of 20,000.. Additionally there is a Grid hydro station in the county, which, if the politicians were brave enough, could be significantly expanded, so add about 100 MW (existing supply), increase x 2, and then double again for three other potential sites, and we are talking about a lot of electricity. This from one County alone. Moving to Radnorshire (Elan Valley dams - Birmingham water supply), there is potential to construct two additional dams of significant size just to start with in that locality alone - the feeder streams for all the dams could supply a min. 300hp of drive.

The potential exists to generate huge quans. of hydro electricity in GB, it just needs some determined and decisive action from Govt. to stop the nonsense currently prohibiting an extremely climate friendly power source from being utilised. Alright, we get dry spells, so therefor increase hydro installations in areas historically less affected. The Severn Barrage should be built asap. (as others), if they don't it will be regretted - the more delay the more the cost. Don't forget there are also current flow turbines that can use tidal flow without barrages, indeed, such facilities can be placed wherever there is significant tidal flow.

The use of water power is not just possible, it is an inevitable necessity.

Regards, Bernard

p.s. In Scotland after WW2, there was a dam building programme in Scotland to employ recently returned servicemen. It is interesting that quite a few of these dams are not used for anything - I have seen one of them.
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2008, 03:01:03 PM »

Quote
Don't forget there are also current flow turbines that can use tidal flow without barrages, indeed, such facilities can be placed wherever there is significant tidal flow...
  like wind turbines but with boat propellers in kort nozzles, situated just below the surface of water ?  tidal turbine pods
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malcolmfrary

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2008, 03:17:09 PM »


"To every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong"

A quote that I found recently.  Seemed appropriate.
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Proteus

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2008, 05:32:32 PM »

I think you can get paid for oil under your House

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKL24342120080724


Proteus
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Reade Models

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2008, 07:50:23 PM »



I think that only applies to arabs? {-) {-) {-)

Malc

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cbr900

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2008, 02:36:54 PM »

I have read all these posts and the one that stood
out the most to me, and I have forgotten who posted
it was::::::::::the gurus who keep saying we have to
stop global warming cannot tell us with any accuracy
what will happen in two days let alone 50, 100 or
200 years time, It will matter not what we say or
argue about it, as the politicians will screw it up
regardless................


Roy
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Bryan Young

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2008, 08:08:03 PM »

one saving: better insulation of homes, that way in winter it stayes warmer with less effort, and in summer, it stayes cooler.  after all what keeps the heat in and cold out also works in reverse, keeping cold in and hot out, more careful use of air conditioning in both homes and cars. 


I may be being a little simplistic here, but it is an honest question. If we do a full insulation on the house, fit double gazing and all the rest of it where do we get our fresh air from? Whether the hot air is going out or the colder air is coming in there has to be some sort of "hole" that surely negates a lot of the so-called benefits. Or do we just suffocate. Sitting here right now with double glazing all around I have to have a window wide open to let a bit of "cool" in. I really am confused about the "saving"...
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toesupwa

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2008, 08:28:41 PM »

one saving: better insulation of homes, that way in winter it stayes warmer with less effort, and in summer, it stayes cooler.  after all what keeps the heat in and cold out also works in reverse, keeping cold in and hot out, more careful use of air conditioning in both homes and cars. 


If we do a full insulation on the house, fit double gazing and all the rest of it where do we get our fresh air from?

Modern buildings are not supposed to let fresh air in... We insulate the heck out of a building, pressure test it to make sure there are no air leaks.. and then wonder where the mold comes from in bathrooms and kitchens.
Lack of air movement and draughts that used to be 'built' in to older buildings.  ???

Yes, we can build energy efficient buildings, 1ft thick walls, tripple glazing, 1ft of insulation in the roof... but the builders dont want to spend the money at the construction stage to save money in the long run.  :'(
Toes (Ex Architect)
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djrobbo

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2008, 09:21:42 PM »

Answers simple lads .......stick a bloody greqat pipe in the front doors of the houses of parliament !  there's enough hot air coming out of there to keep the southern end of britain going for decades O0 O0 {-)

           regards.bob.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: An interesting domestic fuel forecast
« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2008, 10:42:54 PM »

But if the members of parliament suddenly found that they were going to be useful . . .  ::)
They would either have to find another gravy train or actually start being useful.  Heck of  choice for them.
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