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Author Topic: 1:36 Pointy thing  (Read 12745 times)

JerryTodd

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2010, 02:53:42 PM »

Tony,

As another fellow with a 1:36 scale project in the works I'd like to add my BRAVO! and congratulate you on your excellently executed model and choice of subject.

I'm a big fan of adding life to a model with figures and wondered where yours came from; scratch?  modded 1:35 kits?  I'm hoping to have some 20-30 mid-1850's sailors, officers, and marines on my boat and I've been keeping an eye out for figures to base them on - yours are a wonderful enhancement to the model.
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mogogear

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2010, 04:00:46 PM »

Hi Mo,

No bow rudder. That's why she's such a dog to drive as Jimmy J will confirm - with or without the gin O0

David Lyons book is excellent. It's only a pity that Greenwich chare so much for proper drawings. Thats why I've gone continental - they're free.

The chef, by the way, started as a Russian as did all the crew.

Tony

I am embarrassed now--I just received the Book, The First Destroyers. I see that the mention of the bow rudder was ill given. They were only extended and used when moving in reverse... not for aid in forward motion steering.  :embarrassed:
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tonyH

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2010, 07:59:50 PM »

Hi Mo,

Part of the problem with bow rudders was that half of the TB's and destroyers at the time had them and half didn't. It seems also that when they were fitted as part of the original build someone came along later and either removed them or fixed them in place so don't always count on any drawings or photos that come up. There was a lot of competition between builders in England, France and Germany especially to get their designs into the export markets for fighting vessels and so you see, for example, the bow bumper (or the pointy thing that started this ball rolling) on ships in Japan and Russia.

Jerry, Thanks for the comments and we need more of you on Mayhem. Your 'project' looks stunning and, to be very honest, puts mine in the shade. I'm afraid that my finishing is not all that it could be and that photos can be very deceptive O0
The figures are modified 1:35 Russian naval infantry, because the officer jackets are shorter than normal and so suit those of the period. I get all mine from a large warehouse near to me so I can drop in and see the real thing before buying. It could be worth having a look at their site www.hannants.co.uk because they must have one of the largest selections you could wish for. My last project was the 1881 Greek gunboat Ambrakia which had a modified German crew (There's a pic somewhere on Mayhem)

My next project is a 1:32 brigantine, so I'll be following some of your techniques closely.

Tony
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mogogear

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2010, 01:30:35 AM »

Tony

I see what you mean - but in the book - the original dialogue form the head of ship procurement detailed that many of the early "turbine" boats relied on smaller counter rotating turbines or some smaller piston engines to drive reverse direction and that the poor speed at which they could achieve reverse also enhanced their poor reverse -steering . So the effort to try to use a bow rudder just for use in those situations. Those coal-loving turbines caused a lot of excitement and consternation to the designers.

At least that is what the dialogue Mr Lyons notes. Undoubtedly it was time of experimentation and I bety more than a couple tried to see if they would enhance forward steering also..

The reading( Of the First Destroyers) is proving more interesting than I thought it would be and shows that there were so many miss-steps with these small ships. Especially ion sea-worthiness ( or lack there of ) vibration and actual lack of use in the torpedoes.

cheers

greg
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Colin Bishop

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2010, 09:37:08 AM »

Using a bow rudder while going ahead at anything other than the very slowest pace would have put an enormous strain on the mechanism.

Colin
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tonyH

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2010, 10:35:40 AM »

Aye, especially since, or so it seems, steering engines were yet to become common and it was all done with rods and cogs. That's why Arquebuse and her sisters tried the rudder before the props - to reduce the stress. At least further back in time they had the option of relieving tackles to the rudder.
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mogogear

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2010, 07:25:41 AM »

Colin

That was logic I arrived at after my first post..and then went back and read that they were only deployed( cranked down into place) for reversing maneuvers  only.. I knew I had posted too quickly and not read the words in front of me.

Tony
The Turbinia also had a an odd rudder placement- off the center line and just before the last set of propellers( and aft of the first two sets ) I wonder if she suffered form a wide arc for coming about??
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Jimmy James

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2010, 09:03:27 PM »

Tony
 I've had some experance (IN the 60's) with bow rudders ...they work ok when going astern but you dare not go ahead at more then 2 or 3 knots with out the locking pins in or the rudder will override the steering motors and jam hard over ---Putting the locking pins in (They are solid steel 6" in Dia and about 5 feet long ) Is a real pain in the back side... you are working in a tiny room (About the size of a wardrobe) 2 decks down the forepeak trying to line up the rudder by hand and drop 2 huge pins into the sockets with the Old man screaming that he's got to come ahead or he'll run us up the beach and why the hell are we doing taking so long . [[British Rail Ferrys out of Harwich]]
Jimmy
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rathikrishna

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Re: 1:36 Pointy thing
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2010, 02:16:05 PM »

its..greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttt......unbelievable...
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