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Author Topic: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?  (Read 6841 times)

Martin [Admin]

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Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« on: August 15, 2008, 09:28:48 AM »


Lots of talk of brushless motors in model boats, so who has actually installed or used one?


 
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Stavros

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 05:11:57 PM »

Me converted a ready to run speed boat which was fitted with a geared motor to brushless awesome is the word.Run time on the geared motor was around 10Min's and pathetically slow and sounded like a cream cracker ed car engine.As for make sorry cant tell you as I bought it s/h all I know about it is it has a 40 amp speed controller and is around the size of a 600.prop wise a 40mm  prop.The amazing thing is that not only does it go ballistic but the run time on the same batt 9.6v3700mah has doubled the motor does not get warm and it is not water cooled.sorry no piccies but Martin has posted some of it on the Mayhem at Wicksted this year.It's the white speedy boat!!!!!!!Yes the one that had a tendency to flip,motor is slightly to powerful for the hull!!!!!!!!!

Stavros
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debssnal

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 07:29:25 PM »

Hi Martin,i have two fitted in my jet drive lifeboat.It is 54" long and comes in at 15kg.you can run it on 12 or24 volt.On 12 volt it is around scale speed doing 30 meters in 5 seconds.on 24 volt its mad but fun.On12 volt we have had it runing on a12volt 12ahp gel cell battery.for 1 1/2 hours.that was not flat out all the time,but we did push a dinghy with a 15st man in it in that time.On24 volt it runs on 2x12 volt 7ahp batterys for 20 mins,but you do tend to drive it hardas the kid in you comes out lol.The motors are 2xTornado Thumper 4250 Brushless motor - 720 watt motor, 600 kv. They cost 29.99 each.You can buy them form most model shops,or go on line to http://www.overlander.co.uk/
ESC are best go from ebay.I have 2x100amp esc,s fitted in the boat they cost 15.00 each that post and esc all in.If you was to buy them in the uk they will cost around 100 each.The name of the seller on ebay is
cyberport888. They come from hong kong in around 5 working days.I have been trying Tornado Thumper 4250 Brushless motors in the 1;12 seven from speedline,but they are geting a bit hot.so i am going to fit 2x Tornado Thumper 5055 Brushless motor - 1280 watt motor, 580kv.So from what myself and my mate have found you need 100w off power per kg model weight.It sound alot,but in brushless motors it is not.This will over power the boat but it runs alot longer and not get hot.
ESC
You need to over size them eg 45amp motor you fit a 60amp+ esc this keep every thing cool when running.
Also most brushless motor are alot more efficient around 85 to96%
Here are two links to video of my lifeboat one on 12 volt,and one on 24volt have a look and let me know what you think.LINK ONE ON 12VOLT http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gLRKH9_MKfI       LINK TWO ON 24VOLT http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5wBkClicI&feature=related        ALSO 24VOLT http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn2QxbhaJUs&feature=related       JUST  COPY AND PASTE THE LINKS
Kind regards
Alan
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 09:01:37 PM »


Cor........... I'm impressed.

I've been wondering about this route, but knew nothing about them.

Thank you for the info, Alan. I might give it a try. Should be great fun in a model Swan.

ken
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andyn

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2008, 12:29:49 AM »

Been using a very cheap one in a shock flyer for the past year and it goes like sh** off a shovel !!!

GWS 2208/18T brushless plus 18amp ESC - 21.99 (minus my discount)
Tornado Overtec 3s Li-Po's - 14 apiece

Shall try and get someone to take a video for me.
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alan colson

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2008, 10:49:52 AM »

Martin, if I am not mistaken you got quite excited with the perfomance of the big lifeboat run at Wicksteed by Lifeboat Paul, I think that runs on brushless motors.
Alan
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2008, 01:51:33 PM »

Martin, if I am not mistaken you got quite excited with the perfomance of the big lifeboat run at Wicksteed by Lifeboat Paul, I think that runs on brushless motors.
Alan

Yes! ....... sorry about that!  ;) What's your setup and how long does it run on one charge?
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geoff p

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2008, 12:41:34 AM »

Do brushless motor / ESC set-ups have reverse?
Can you get decent control at low motor speeds?

Geoff
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andyn

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2008, 12:45:14 AM »

Yes you have reverse, you just switch any two leads over to reverse it.
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debssnal

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2008, 01:07:44 AM »

Hi yes you can get brushless esc,s with reverse.thay are car esc,s or they will be bi esc,s.
you need to buy them from a hong kong or usa as they cost over 100 each in the uk.
if you go on ebay you can get them from
revolutionshop or hkp2ps2 or fromthis link
http://www.r2hobbies.com/products.php?cat=21&pg=2&PHPSESSID=26ff57b65d7ec9c1c9faea43188c0242
Regads
Alan
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geoff p

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2008, 02:08:29 AM »

Andyn,   O0
Now all I have to do is rig another RC channel to operate two screwdrivers, tug any two wires out of their holes, swap them, and screw them back.  Easy peasy  ;D

Seriously though, my main reason for considering a brushless system is that getting a decent 'reversing' ESC out here (backwaters of Taiwan) is nigh-on impossible.

I have two but they have this daft 'wait 5 seconds' before reverse is available (to protect the gearbox of cars, I'm told.)  >:(

Debssnal,
Afraid your link doesn't love me - it reckons I don't have permission to access the server - even at root (r2hobbies.com)

Cheers,
Geoff
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Proteus

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2008, 03:32:42 AM »

the link works for me ,and they are good esc you can get rid of the delay with a programmer for a few quid,



http://www.r2hobbies.com/products.php?cat=21&pg=2&PHPSESSID=26ff57b65d7ec9c1c9faea43188c0242

Proteus
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2008, 06:39:51 AM »


Mtronics also do a Brushless reversing ESC.



http://www.mtroniks.net/details1.asp/ProductID/194/sid/1/Genesis-hydra15.htm

The Genesis Hydra15 is a Forwards and Reverse Brushless Speed Control designed specifically for use in scale RC boats. It is aimed at entry level for people new to Brushless Speed Control.- 35.99

The Genesis Hydra15 has a 15Amp Brushless motor limit, this is a rough equivalent to a standard, stock 540 can Brushed motor. The Genesis Hydra15 is best suited to small scale RC boats to be used at scale speeds.

Although the Genesis Hydra15 is the entry level model in the Genesis marine range it performs to a very high standard and is more than a match for any Brushed motor and speed control equivalent.

The Genesis Hydra15 Brushless speed control has been designed to fit straight into any RC model boat as a direct replacement for your Brushed speed controller. The set up is a no nonsense, one-step procedure making it very easy to get up and running within minutes! The Genesis Brushless Speed Controls designed for use in RC boats are all 100% waterproof giving you that extra peace of mind should the worst happen and you have to retreive your model from the graveyard under the pond!!

The Genesis Hydra15 benefits from 5 years worth of research and design work carried out by the Mtroniks design team with help from a few well known RC scale sailors. What this has resulted in is a Sensorless Brushless Speed Control that works and feels just the same as a Brushed Speed Control, giving you absolute control over the throttle with very smooth acceleration and the added bonus of longer run times when compared to Brushed Speed Control equivalents!


Genesis Hydra15 features:

Easy one-step set up
Smooth controlable acceleration
A 'return to base' software upgrade facility
5 to 10 cells NiCAD or NiMH
Automatic sensing of number of cells when using NiCAD or NiMH batteries
Current limit cut-off
3A Hyper BEC
3 Internal Schottky diodes
Auto cut-off computer
Dimensions:-52mmx35mmx12mm
Weight:-42g
100% Waterproof
The Genesis Hydra15 speed control is capable of an average discharge rate of 12A and a peak discharge rate of 15A making it a very capable & attractive option at such a low price! Ideal for your first steps into the world of Brushless marine modelling!
The 'return to base' software upgrade enables the user to return their ESC to us to have the onboard software upgraded to the latest spec ensuring your ESC is never superceded!!(Software upgrade notices will be posted in the news section on www.mtroniks.net when made available)

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nick_75au

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2008, 08:20:32 AM »

Ive used brushless in boats, a Springer tug, a Miami crash boat hull and as a trial a 1 meter long steam boat hull. the Springer and steamboat are a KA20-22L motor at 1000Kv, 40 mm prop in Springer 75mm prop in steam hull, The steam hull needs a lower Kv motor. The crashboat uses a KA450 3200KV on a 2.8:1 gearbox and 35mm graupner racing prop for a top speed of 25 Kph. I use the same controller in all, its a pulso but there are many clones, ful FNR, I just swap out the control to the 3 boats.
Regards
Nick

The Photo of the Springer was on 12 v, it normaly runs on 6v for more than adequate performance.
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nick_75au

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2008, 08:56:52 AM »

A couple more pics, Springer at more realistic speed, Internals, and Crash boat hull at top speed.
Regards
Nick
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Proteus

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2008, 09:53:36 AM »

nick_75au

that looks great , any chance of a bit more info on the  KA450 3200KV on a 2.8:1 gearbox  please

Proteus
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nick_75au

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2008, 11:05:24 AM »

Hi Proteus,
What would you like to know, the motor is the same as this http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5246
and gearbox is a Maxx designed for 400 size motors, comes with 3 pinions I've used the deepest reduction. I run it on 10 Nimh 3300 mAH, Its a subsurface drive. Its a fairly noisy set-up because of the box, Im going to try a 1500 or so Kv motor in direct drive for comparison and put this motor in a micro rigger or hydro direct drive.
hope this helps.
regards
Nick
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Proteus

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2008, 11:09:39 AM »

thanks for that ,just what I was after, what size is the crash boat and what run time do you get.

Proteus,
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nick_75au

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Re: Brushless motors, who has actually used one?
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2008, 11:32:34 AM »

Hi Proteus,
The boat is Glynn Guests Miami Crashboat 62 cm long 15 cm wide, I get at least 10 minutes full throttle but can run for up to 20 minutes if I'm light on the throttle, It planes at around 1/3rd throttle so is good fun. One day I might even build a superstructure for it :)
Regards
Nick
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