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Author Topic: Lack of sleep (Fuse or not to fuse?)  (Read 9340 times)

rem2007

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Lack of sleep (Fuse or not to fuse?)
« on: August 23, 2008, 10:35:28 AM »

There are 2 reasons why I am having difficulty sleeping. The first pictures shows the main culprit to our dilemma. The second is preventing me from doing final ballasting and sea trials. The problem is that when I screw the motor into the motor mount I get just alot of noise and no revolutions forward or reverse, yet when I loosen the screws a half a turn ther motor moves freely, but is out of alignment. Do I require washers on the motor mount screws?
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Proteus

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2008, 10:47:47 AM »

your motor screws are to long maybee and think about changing the wire on the last few inches of the motor wire.up to it you will be able to push a few amps if you get a stall they will heat up like a electric fire as you have no fuse.


Proteus
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DickyD

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2008, 10:57:57 AM »

Try the washers Robert. O0
Proteus is right, you need a fuse.
My wife says can she have your dog when you get fed up with it. ;)
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rem2007

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2008, 11:29:30 AM »

I think they still have a couple left if the litter, probably take 100 now. Do you want there number?
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DickyD

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2008, 11:32:44 AM »

Shhh, keep your voice down, the one I've got is enough thanks Robert. ;)
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rem2007

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2008, 11:34:49 AM »

I thought the wiring on the motor was rather thin, bought them from Model Motors Direct, wired and suppressed. I'll try the washers, and failing that change wiring from motor. As far as fusing from motor, a mate in my club was showing me his Neptune last week and I noticed he never had an in-line fuse, he says hes never used them, just disconnects his batteries each week when he goes home, never had a problem. Thanks for the help Proteus and Dicky O0
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rem2007

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2008, 11:35:26 AM »

Shhh, keep your voice down, the one I've got is enough thanks Robert. ;)

O0OK
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DickyD

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2008, 11:52:13 AM »

As far as fusing from motor, a mate in my club was showing me his Neptune last week and I noticed he never had an in-line fuse, he says hes never used them, just disconnects his batteries each week when he goes home, never had a problem. Thanks for the help Proteus and Dicky O0
Do yourself a favour Robert, use an in line fuse, its cheaper than a new speed controller should anything go wrong. O0
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andygh

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2008, 04:13:41 PM »

 
Quote
mate in my club was showing me his Neptune last week and I noticed he never had an in-line fuse, he says hes never used them


he's very lucky
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2008, 05:04:00 PM »


I'm going out on a limb here but I rarely use fuses in my boats!  :D
Don't get me wrong but there are a couple of sound reasons:
1. I only use tested setups and know I won't overload the system even in the event of a motor stall.
2. I only use electronic speed controllers with overload protection or thermal shutdown.

When experimenting, I do use a slow blow at the rated speed controller limit, ie. 10Amp or a 10 controller.

Question. Most people put fuses between the battery and the speed controller, does anyone put a fuse between the motor and the speed controller?

Martin.

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rem2007

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2008, 05:09:00 PM »

I think I will do the fuse, in the correct position of course. The washers worked great though, purrs like a kitten now, with 1 kilo of ballast to bring her down to the waterline. Stopped by the auto wreckers yesterday after work and he had loads, sea trials went very good in the pool, but  as our pond is very open at Goodrington, may wait for open water trials, thanks again for all your input, using a 10A Micro ESC Mtroniks and set up was dead easy.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2008, 05:50:27 PM »

Quote
Question. Most people put fuses between the battery and the speed controller, does anyone put a fuse between the motor and the speed controller?

I do both. The fuse on the positive side of the battery is to protect the boat's electrical installation. The fuses on the motors stop the controllers being overloaded if a prop picks up weed or gets jammed etc. As somebody else pointed out, fuses cost pennies but can save you hundreds of pounds.  :)
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Bryan Young

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2008, 07:02:27 PM »


I'm going out on a limb here but I rarely use fuses in my boats!  :D
Don't get me wrong but there are a couple of sound reasons:
1. I only use tested setups and know I won't overload the system even in the event of a motor stall.
2. I only use electronic speed controllers with overload protection or thermal shutdown.

When experimenting, I do use a slow blow at the rated speed controller limit, ie. 10Amp or a 10 controller.

Question. Most people put fuses between the battery and the speed controller, does anyone put a fuse between the motor and the speed controller?

Martin.


Yes.
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barriew

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2008, 07:14:56 PM »


I'm going out on a limb here but I rarely use fuses in my boats!  :D
Don't get me wrong but there are a couple of sound reasons:
1. I only use tested setups and know I won't overload the system even in the event of a motor stall.
2. I only use electronic speed controllers with overload protection or thermal shutdown.

When experimenting, I do use a slow blow at the rated speed controller limit, ie. 10Amp or a 10 controller.

Question. Most people put fuses between the battery and the speed controller, does anyone put a fuse between the motor and the speed controller?

Martin.



Like Colin, both between motor and ESC and in positive lead from battery to main switch.

Barrie
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Peterm

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2008, 10:00:27 AM »

When something goes wrong, the excess current comes from the power supply (battery), so surely the place for the fuse is in the positive power supply line before it gets to the electronics.   I have worked on this principle for about 60 years and it hasn`t failed me yet.   Pete M
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nick_75au

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2008, 10:53:50 AM »

I tend to agree with PeterM, one fuse is sufficient in positive line from battery, or if a multiple circuit then a separate fuse for each circuit in its power line.
The second fuse in the motor line will only introduce extra resistance and reduce efficiency.

Regards
Nick
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GG

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2008, 12:58:45 PM »

I'm with Martin here!
I rarely use fuses in my models.  I've yet to have any model or RC equipment damaged or lost when a fuse might have saved the day. Indeed, in my early days I've had models left powerless due to the fuse "blowing" when subjected to momentary overloading which would not have damaged the driveline in any way.

This is not "Luck" as I plan, install, test and (most importantly) try to be aware of what the model is telling me when I sail.  I do not advocate never using a fuse, some modellers I know would be foolish to sail without a fuse, but fuses are not essential for everyone in everycase.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2008, 01:31:53 PM »

Quote
The second fuse in the motor line will only introduce extra resistance and reduce efficiency.

Sorry, I don't understand that. A correctly rated fuse should carry the required current and not introduce resistance - otherwise it would get hot and blow!
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GG

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2008, 05:17:06 PM »

Colin,
  You have described how fuses work, i.e. the current passing through the resistance of the wire element causes heating (P=I2R).  If the fuse element cannot conduct this heat away quickly enough then its temperature rises until the element melts.

Such a mechanism is not going to "blow" as soon as the current exceeds its rated value.  The greater the excess current is, the quicker it will "blow" but, notheless, a 10 Amp fuse will let a current larger than 10 Amp flow for a short while.

As my son-in-law keeps on reminding me, fuses are there primarily to protect the wiring not the device they are in series with.

GlynnG
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2008, 05:29:16 PM »

Quote
2. I only use electronic speed controllers with overload protection or thermal shutdown.

.... and the advantage of a built  in device is it fast enough to protect itself and usually they automatically reset.
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John W E

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2008, 06:50:00 PM »

Hi there

Certain manufacturers of model boat equipment supply a ready fitted fuse in the positive line; this is to protect from human error and also protect against mishaps whilst out boating.  Along with this fuse there is a built in overload.

Now, when we get our wires mixed up and we connect the positive wire to the negative on the battery; the first thing to blow is the fuse. 

If we replace the fuse with a higher rating one and do the same trick again, the second thing that blows is internal - it normally is the printed circuit that gets it.

If we are really unlucky, the diode gets it as well.....

If we are really persistent & short the whole lot out again, the main power transistor gets it; so you know when we send our electrical appliances back to certain manufacturers and they say - did you get the wires mixed up and we say no.......when they open them up they know we were telling porky pies.......

aye so fuses whether we like them or not; are a good thing to have.

aye
john e
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2008, 06:55:16 PM »

Fuses look Funky... ;)

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Lack of sleep
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2008, 07:19:18 PM »



Just reading back on my posts here, maybe I should make myself clear... FIT FUSES!
Any additional form of protection for your expensive electronics is highly recommended.

Has anyone used those electronic type fuses / circuit breakers? I hear they react very fast!

... do as i say not as I do!   ::)

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John W E

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Re: Lack of sleep (Fuse or not to fuse?)
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 08:01:29 PM »

QUOTE FROM THE BOSS

... do as i say not as I do!   ::)
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DickyD

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Re: Lack of sleep (Fuse or not to fuse?)
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2008, 08:29:20 PM »

You know John you have more than a passing resemblance to Martin, pose is very similar to. Did your Dad have a bike. :angel:
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