Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down

Author Topic: HMS Dreadnought  (Read 28215 times)

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2009, 09:40:53 AM »

Thanks Cap.

I promised pictures yesterday - but the only SD card I could find is bust, so it'll be tomorrow at the earliest. Work has diversified (which helps cuts down the "gawd not more planks" factor)...

1/ The rear subdeck aft of the torpedo net shelf has been trimmed to the hull outline, and the space for the margin planks has been cleared. What's great here is that, in removing the ends of the fore and aft planks to make this space, I've been cutting and lifting plank ends that were glued - PVA between limewood and ply - a few days ago, and they are now satisfyingly solid. The wood's coming away, but leaving a thin veneer of ex-plank firmly attached to the ply. Scraping the remaining limewood off has been the only answer. Top marks, modern waterproof PVA!

2/ The cartridge paper plates at the sides of the hull were coated with G4 several months ago. While sanding the edges of the subdeck to fit, my sanding block eventually rubbed against these plates. Normally "sanding" and "paper" is not a good mix, but the resulting smell of warm resin dust - a very GRP-like pong - is fantastic news. The G4 has totally soaked the cartridge paper, and the result is a very tough, resin finish, which is sandable with ease. It is like plasticard. 10/10 for G4!!!

3/ I've finished a small amount of ply work at the starboard forecastle, so I'm ready to plank that area in the next few days. And once that ply work was done, I started adding the superstructure coaming. This is made of 15mm-high strips of plywood, stuck within the hull opening, to leave a 1/16th inch "gutter" for the superstructure base between coaming and margin plank.

While most of the coaming is a set of straight lines, there are a couple of areas of curves - for example, the turn inside of the P and Q turrets. For these, I soaked ply strips in hot water, elastic-banded them around a pot of the right diameter, and (two hours later, after they dried) have cut and glued these on using Evostick. People often seem to rush contact adhesives like this, but if you follow the instructions (let the surfaces dry before lining up and attaching) the stuff is magnificent. Way to go, Evostick!!!  :-)) :-))

All is good. And it's staring to look like a model boat.

So, naturally, my thoughts are moving forward ... and given the complexity of the shape of the superstructure, along with a need for strength in such a narrow, weirdly-shaped beast, I'm leaning towards making it out of another material. Brass sheet? Any other recommendations?

Regards!

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Capricorn

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2009, 04:44:28 AM »

Andy, I thought I was looking at the new pictures, but I guess they were old.  Mostly the same I suppose, but glad they are getting done.  What is Evostick?  I'm not up on all the adhesives, use elmers, epoxy and CA is all.  I'll be doing a similar coaming if I understand you right and will have to glue a curved one in like yours, but the radius will likely not be quite as tight, so maybe I'll try your method.  I never liked soaking wood though, I don't think I'm patient enough to let it dry out thoroughly, maybe it's the adhesive I use though O0.

I've never built something like a ship superstructure with brass sheet, I've seen it done (pictures) and it certainly can be done nicely but I'm not sure I could do it.  I usually need to use a lot of sand paper on the corners of stuff I build.  I'm going to use thin plywood for my DD but it's 1/35 scale so I've got a bit more leeway.  Back to the brass sheet, I guess I don't even know how it's fastened together, I've tried to solder each end of a piece of brass before and when I do it the solder at both ends melts.  Cap   
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2009, 09:35:55 AM »

Evostick - this is the smelly contact adhesive, popular for work surface sticking.

It comes in red tubs or tubes over here, and you have to be over 18 to buy it, as it's understandably the solvent of choice for young ne'er-do-wells.

You run a bead along both surfaces to be joined, wait five minutes until you think "that's way too long", bring the surfaces together and they bond instantly. There's no real chance of adjusting the work after that point. It sets in another five minutes and it attains full strength in 24 hours. It doesn't soak into the wood as well as CA or PVA (it's quite rubbery) so it's more of a surface glue than a penetrative one.

Because I'm effectively sticking edges together for the coaming, not the flat surfaces that it's really designed for - I'm going to reinforce the joins with a strip of glassfibre later on...
 


(The coaming will be taking more than a few knocks, so it needs beefing up. Except, as a vegetarian, I'll naturally be nut-roasting-it-up%%)

Soaking the ply - I leave a strip submerged in hot/boiling water for ten/fifteen minutes or so, and get on with other jobs. Then take out the wood and strap/bind/band it to a curve somewhat smaller in diameter than that required, and leave it for an hour on the radiator. "Job done". That said, there's one small curve on the port side of the coaming of about 4cm diameter which I had problems with last night. Too tight for my 1/16th ply with water soaking alone - I think I'll have to laminate card for that one.

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,316
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2009, 09:48:23 AM »

If you are worried about the instant bond "get it right first time" nature of Evostik you could try Thixofix with gives the opportunity for minor readjustment before setting.

http://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_7&products_id=17

Colin
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2009, 01:01:08 PM »

Thanks Colin - though I have to admit quite liking the frisson of terror with Evostick. That whole "there's no second chance" thing. I suppose it's a bit like lining up the space shuttle for a landing. Only, without the risk of pain, death, or at least a terribly embarrassing court-martial.  ;)

For those mad enough to want to see Yet More Planking. Now you can!  %%

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

MartinI

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2009, 05:05:54 PM »

In the past, I have used waxed paper as a barrier between the two surfaces. The paper doesn't stick to the contact adhesive. You can line things up and then slide the paper out of the way, (starting at one edge to get the "register"), applying pressure as you remove it.

Martin
Logged

Capricorn

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2009, 01:39:45 AM »

Looks great, not much left at all...  Your deckhands appear friendly however for a moment it looked as though they might engage.  Now the deck may be fine with a cat on a pillow on it but a full fledged catfight?  That would have to result in some serious gouges among other things, better get a squirt gun O0.  Cap
Logged

andrewh

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,064
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2009, 09:48:47 AM »

Dreadnought, you are an indefatigable master-planker :}

Thanks for sharing - the last half has flown by, and the result is wonderful.

Are you going to simulate the treenails or bolts used to attach them?  This is not a serious enquiry!  I don't think it is easy to buy a forstner bit of .02mm diameter.  Don't mind me - I'm talking nonsense

andrew
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #83 on: February 05, 2009, 01:06:15 PM »

Good tip regarding Evostick - thanks for that.

The cats. Jack's taken to demanding his cushion is placed on the deck, so he can get a better view of the work. He'll have to shift when all the "thingummies" are applied later, and it all gets more delicate. Now and again the odd paw disappears down a turret hole, in order to fish out spare limewood planks which I keep in the hull, but there's been no attempts at claw-sharpening on the decks so far. I do wonder what he makes of it all, though.

Meanwhile - treenails. I have no idea how the original planking was applied to a steel-plated deck. Presumably they didn't use PVA and giant felines to weigh 'em down while the glue set.  %%

(Well, maybe they did on HMS Lion and HMS Tiger.)

It would seem to be an endless, thankless task if they were all bolted into place...does anybody know the real technique?

Andy, almost finished planking.
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

andrewh

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,064
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2009, 01:27:18 PM »

Andy,

Evostick can readily be persuaded to "let go".  It is basically (I believe) neoprene latex suspended in a solvent.  If you flood the area with acetone or cellulose thinners the glue will revert to liquid.  Diluted evostick is the adhesive of choice for covering aircraft parts with mylar film.  prolly explains a lot about aeromodellers and their relationship to reality (he said from the planet zoG)

If you need a little "fiddle time" to adjust bits held with evostick either don't leave it to dry completely before pressing together
 or at the point of pressing together give the surfaces a swipe with solvent.

I believe (navy) planking on a steel deck is held down with "bolts" at about the same intervals that treenails would be used.  I don't know if there is a nut and washer used, or some kind of upset or swage, but the hole is covered with a plug cut out of similar wood - but end-grain, I think.
I would not fault you if you use cross-grain plugs :}
What are you going to finish the decks with?
andrew

Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2009, 09:16:44 PM »

What are you going to finish the decks with?

Well, I'll be having an extremely jolly big whisky.  %%

That's "jolly" as in <word not allowed>

Oh.

I see.  :embarrassed:

It'll be getting many coats of matt varnish. The first few thinned, to penetrate the threads and wood until they become a mass of imperviousness. Then sand, varnish, sand, varnish, sand, varnish, sand, varnish, sand, varnish

The thing is, after the hundred or so hours spent on this, I won't be regretting a couple/six more on getting it "just so".

Back when I were a lad, in my dinghy racing days, it took about two weeks of six/eight hour days to prep and paint a hull ... the final half day spent wet-or-drying the perfect top coat (used wet) to get the bugs off, and matte it, to create a surface that'd gain me a few boat lengths through pure sleekness alone. That was time never wasted.

Interesting stuff on the treenails. I'm not sure I'm up to doing 5000+ when they're going to be half a mill in diameter. Though I did buy my eldest son a microscope for Christmas.

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,086
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #86 on: February 06, 2009, 05:22:30 AM »

Andy....in Australia we have a product called Feast Watson Carnauba Wax - [it is not unlike neutral shoe polish/wax]

http://www.feastwatson.com.au/WaxesWax.asp

Successive coats of this wax produce a natural protection against moisture [suffice to say I would never use it underwater] without the matt translucence build up you get with polyurethane

The wax also adds depth [but does not darken] to the differing natural timber tones between each plank

Not sure about the representation of 5000 treenail plugs  >>:-( >>:-( ......but if you do contemplate them...consider using a jig....maybe a length of K&S brass strip the same width as the planks...carefully mark & drill 0.5 mm diameter holes at the nominated spacing....then  :P ......Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2009, 02:22:21 PM »

A quick check of the Dreadnought stats this morning shows me that a recent visitor came from Vienna, Virginia, USA. Instead of the usual "broadband" or "corporate" internet service provider listed in the stats, this visitor has:

PENTAGON

 :o

Now, while I guffawed at their WinXP, I.E.7 and 800*600 platform, it did get me thinking. "What if they're in the Naval Procurement department, and planning vessels for the USN around the 2015/2020 timeframe...?"  %%

Ok - updates. I've slung three original photos up online, contemplated Derek's wax idea (but fear it might make my thread go white), and will be resuming planking next week, once I get some free time again.

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Nevada BB36

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #88 on: August 03, 2009, 08:48:28 PM »

Hi,
I am currently in the process of building a model of the USS Nevada.  So, I found this thread and have been following it with interest.  And I do appreciate Andy, the fact that you are sharing this with everyone.  I know some of the ideas and techniques you have shown will help me with Nevada.  I don't know if you are still interested in the planking process used on battleships, but there is a rather good description of it used in the reconstruction of the North Carolina's teak deck.  According to their website, "The project got underway in mid-1999 with the removal of the original teak decking and preservation of the steel deck underneath. After drying and milling the new teak, crews started the painstaking task of fitting the teak, welding studs to the steel deck to fasten the teak boards to the deck, then spreading a bedding compound onto which the teak boards were laid and fastened with special barrel nuts. After the compound dried, teak plugs were installed over the barrel nuts and a synthetic sealant poured between the teak boards. Finally, the entire deck went through a sanding process to provide a smooth surface. In the end, just over 55,000 square feet of teak was installed on three decks of the Battleship".  There are some interesting photos of the process at this link --->  http://www.battleshipnc.com//lucky_bag/pjt_photos1.html

Rob
Logged

steve pickstock

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2009, 08:44:46 AM »

I have been reading this post this morning with an increasing sense of wonderment and awe.

My God sir! This is something else all together. And not just the model - the science stuff if pretty awesome too.

However if I may - I noted in January a discussion about firing the guns and the thoughts turned to caps and recoiling mechanisms. the suggestion was at that time 12 shot ring caps. which means 15 sets of re-loading. Coming from an airsoft background it may be worth looking at airsoft pistols which are often made so that the gas doesn't just fire the BB but causes the pistol slide to recoil as well. The gases expanding from the muzzle add to the effect as well but the mechanisms could be built with one gas reservoir per turret, so each can be reloaded simply.

Under the auspices of the VCR Act it is less easy to buy a replica pistol, but brightly coloured gas blowback pistols can be obtained here
http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/Pistols-Revolvers-Gas-Powered_B22C4D.aspx
There is also the likes of this one which is a cheap 'blowback' electric.
http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/Cyma-Beretta-Electric-blowback-Pistol-2-Tone_ALB5H.aspx


Merely a suggestion. I look forwards to more of your work.
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2009, 10:38:46 AM »

Thanks very much for the posts, Rob and Steve.

I must apologise for not updating this build since (ahem) February, but real world things have a habit of stopping by and nibbling you when you least expect it. Work will recommence soon enough - I've promised the hull that it'll be at least afloat this year, ballasted and trialled.

Oh yes.  <*<

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

steve pickstock

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2009, 11:15:58 AM »

I look forward to the day when I can see this magnificent obsession afloat and tracking targets while crossing a notional 't'. As well as all of that it is 1/72 as well, the true scale.
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #92 on: January 05, 2010, 11:01:28 PM »

Thanks very much for the posts, Rob and Steve.

I must apologise for not updating this build since (ahem) February, but real world things have a habit of stopping by and nibbling you when you least expect it. Work will recommence soon enough - I've promised the hull that it'll be at least afloat this year, ballasted and trialled.

Oh yes.  <*<

Andy


Oh dear.

 %)

Well, of course, it's now January 2010, and the hull's not afloat. Barely progressed from when last seen on this thread, in fact. BUT!

(And it's a big but)

I've just taken redundancy from work, partly because there was a generous deal on offer, and partly because "working for the man" seems (at 46) to be a bigger waste of money compared to "working for myself". A gamble, for sure, but as Commander Walker would say, "always take a chance and don't be sorry for a might-have-been" (no points for spotting the quote if you've been following the build thread :-) ).

And as to the build thread - that's currently offline as it moves home. It was hosted on my work's server - when my new Dell arrives at the end of this week it'll be located in its new and permanent home. The Dreadnought, meanwhile, has found itself out of the attic and in the freed-up "craft room" recently decorated and ready to go with regards to boat-building.  :-))

So wish me luck over the next few months! And, incidentally, if you need a website developing for whatever purpose, drop me an email and we can talk costs!  ok2

Best wishes to all in 2010,

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

andrewh

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,064
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2010, 01:02:38 PM »

Andy

Happy New Year!
Thanks for keeping us updated with your decision to break out as a solo artist - hope it all goes well for you. 
Actually you can refer prospective clients to your Dreadsite and claim  " a person who can plank an Acre of deck can make light work of your detail requirements (and joggle your margin planks)"

andrew
Logged

Capricorn

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2010, 03:11:30 PM »

Happy New Year to all Andrews and Andys (and everyone else too).  I've been absent for a while, any updates?  It seems the HMS Dreadnought website is gone or moved.  Cap
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2010, 03:24:29 PM »

Hi Cap - as I mentioned, the site was hosted on my previous employer's server. I need to put it up on a new server, and will do so soon, though I'm waiting until there's more work done on the build.

Thanks for stopping by!

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2010, 04:44:50 PM »

Right, that's the site back online. But there's nothing new there this time around. More soon!

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Capricorn

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #97 on: April 21, 2010, 01:24:00 AM »

Andy, Glad to see you have your site back up.  Very neat graphics for the controls, especially the gun training.  I have been tinkering with gun directors again myself and I still think stepper motors are the way to go, servos work for sure but not quite right (my opinion).  You do need the microprocessor and stepper motor drivers.  I've been using phidget stepper motor controller which is nice because it has 4 independent contollers.  It could work exactly like you have it set up too.  Anyway, is the planking done??  More photo's.  Cap
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2010, 06:29:18 PM »

Hi Cap! Thanks for the message.

Stepper motors - I think you're right: these are the way to go. They're a bit pricey, but with toothed belts and different sized wheels it'd be possible to reduce the (typically 1.8 degree) step motion to really small amounts, and with the coding driving the stepper motors, it'd be a cinch to accurately point each turret. (Count the steps and stop when done.)

Hmmm.

I think what I need to do is assemble the parts and make (outside the hull) a working model. Cost is a bit excessive, however - I'd be looking at ~400 or so for the components, all in.

(Files it under "Job for the future".)

Meanwhile, planking has stopped while Real Life gets in the way: I've gone freelance and need jobs & cash coming in at the moment. And my current modelling priority is to finish planking Racundra and get her off the building board.

(Definitely time to consider cloning myself in order to get all these things done.  :o )

Best wishes,

Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Capricorn

  • Guest
Re: HMS Dreadnought
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2010, 10:50:24 PM »

Andy, No rush on the planking, some things just can't be rushed.  Surplus stepper motors can be had for relatively cheap (3$ US), it depends on how exact you want it.  The cheap ones are often 7.5 degree motors, but with half steps that 3.75 deg per step, gear it down 4:1 and you have about 1 degree of resolution.  I have a proto type set up (outside the hull), it's not the best video but it's just a proto.

http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/capricornzzz/?action=view&current=director1.flv

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up