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Author Topic: Help needed - can any of you identify this hull? Paint striping  (Read 4343 times)

buckfast

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Hello everyone.

Can any of you identify this for me please?  My granddad started building this years ago but has now sadly passed away.  I'd love to be able to finish this and maybe even start a new hobby to boot.  There's even a single cylinder double acting steam engine and boiler that he also built from scratch.  The engine and boiler came from an old book called model steamers and motor boats , how to build and run them.  the model in question isn't in this book though and I'm not sure if the engine / boiler are correct for the job.

Your help would be great.

Cheers
Geoff.






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barryfoote

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 08:39:39 AM »

Hi Buckfast and welcome to the forum.

Personally I do not recognise the hull, but there are many great guys on the forum who will be able to offer you all the help you need. As for the engine and bioler, if you can post some photos of them, the answers you need should come flooding in, together with as many tips and advise as you can cope with.

Barry
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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2008, 06:53:34 PM »

Thanks Barry.

I'll post some pictures of the boiler and engine later this evening.

I put it in the bath earlier and it sprung a few leaks :'(

I sanded the old green paint back to find what looks like car body filler over the planks.  I don't know if this is common practice.  I might not even be body filler I just don't know.

I'd love to take it all back to the bare wood and some how varnish it.  Would this make it water tight or is there a special product for this purpose.

Maybe it would look better painted?  I'd rather do it justice than botch it up!

Any help would be great.

Cheers

Geoff.
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barryfoote

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2008, 07:48:38 PM »

H Geoff.

There are variopus ways of waterproofing the hull, but as I am no expert on the subject, let them help in this direction.

With regards to varnish or paint, my personal preference has always been to do it as she should be in reality...

Barry
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 08:36:11 PM »

It all depends really what you find when you get it all back to the bare wood.  If there is a lot of filler and it looks a bit unsightly then you will have to refill, dress it up and then paint it with primer and a couple of top coats.  Rubbing down between coats with wet and dry and refilling as necessary you should end up with a nice quality finish.

If the wood does look good when you sand it down it might be worth varnishing, in which case you would be looking at probably three or four coats of a very good quality yacht varnish.  Satin or gloss would be up to your own taste but either is available.

You could also paint it with a coat of resin for a really tough finish but getting a very good finish is a bit trickier.  there are plenty of people on her who can guide you through thatv process but it is basically a case of rubbing down with progressively finer wet and dry paper to generate a high gloss finish.

I would rub it all right back to the original wood first and see what it looks like.  Maybe post another picture here.

Don't forget a single cylinder, although reversible, is not self starting so you will have to think of how you are going to accomodate reversing if you want it completely controllable.
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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 04:13:00 PM »

Thanks for the information.

If I do need to refill then paint, what filler do I need to use?  Is there a specific filler designed for model boats, or would I just use some kind of DIY product?

I tried fitting the engine onto the mountings but the centres aren't right.  I guess my Grandad had another project on the go too.

Thanks again.

Geoff.
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barriew

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 12:49:14 PM »


If I do need to refill then paint, what filler do I need to use?  Is there a specific filler designed for model boats, or would I just use some kind of DIY product?


Many of use P38 car body filler available from Halfords. There aren't really any specialised fillers for model boats, but there are some very fine fillers used by all types of modellers, Humbrol make one, as do Tamiya and Squadron. One of these will be available from your model shop.

Barrie
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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 09:48:09 AM »

Thanks Barrie.

I'll pop out to halfords today and buy some.  I've sanded one side of the hull but it took ages to get the old paint off.  Is there any reason why I couldn't use paint stripper to do the other side?

Any Ideas what this particular model is? 

Cheers

Geoff.
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Sandy Calder

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 02:21:45 PM »

Hello buckfast.
Just a note of caution!
Paint stripper contains corrosive caustic soda in a gel binder.
It damages wood and you don't know what it is going to do to the hull adhesive.

A gardening tip is apply weed killer or fungicide to an unseen patch and observe- a hint!

Sandy
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White Ensign

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 03:30:13 PM »

Geoff, I know it is not the answer you may expect- but to refurbish (and save that part of heritage) any chemistry will harm anyway. So the only way is elbow-grease. But still there are liitle tricks possible. Use a corn-80 or corn-100 paper, which is meant for wet-works (not the dry paper only meant for woodworks). This will support you anyway and make the job easier. If you have sanded down the hull, seal it with two fine layers of fibreglass and then start with filler again. But just use the fibreglass-epoxy-method outside! As if the wood needs to breathe, any inclosed humidity or water will harm again.
In my opinion the only (or best way) to save that familiy-heritage.

Hope that was out of any help.
Jörg
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andrewh

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 04:34:12 PM »

Don't wish to be controversial, but paint striippers (in cans) are made to strip priceless furniture as well as garage doors, and from my limited information the active ingredient is usually methylene chloride.

Caustic soda is indeed used in industrial paint-stripping when doors or complete assemblies are dipped into vats of it.

So If it were mine I might try nitromors and see what happens, but I would certainly remove most of the paint with a hot-air gun (and considerable care) before resorting to elbow-grease

nice hull anyway - good luck and photos please

andrew
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Stavros

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 06:09:14 PM »

Right then chaps time to put the record straight on this one I think.
Paint stripper will NOT harm the wood on your Boat.
BUT it will attack the body filler,and once in the filler the only way to get rid of it then would be to remove all the filler.What i would do personally is to rub down with 80grit dry to get rid of all the paint.
Get a fiberglass kit form Halfords or wherever and lay up a single layer inside the boat this should get rid of any leaks.on the outside rub any cracked filler away and refill as necessary.plenty of advise in painting and finishing posted by myself



Stavros
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John W E

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 07:38:33 PM »

Buckfast hi there

First of all; first question - do you know how old this actual model is?  Are we talking pre-1950 or 1050s or 1960s  or between the 1960s and the 1990s?

The reason I am asking is first of all we must find out what the planking was glued and what the planking material is.

If it is 1950-1960s era the chances are she will be glued with Cascamite plus  the filler which was used in the planks could have been a home-made filler; using Cascamite as a base/adding sawdust and soforth.

Also, the filler may have been something like plasticwood which was available then to the home DIY.   I very much doubt your grandfather would have covered it with any form of car body filler, if it is from that era.   From the 1960s on to the 1970s fibre glass materials were just newish to the market and there were only a few who used it; or dabbled using it.   

So, if the model is built say very early 1970s onwards; there is a very high chance of you coming across car bodge filler with fibre glass.

Now the next thing is; what state is the planking - when you get down to it.   If it has been lying around, the planking will have dried out; unless the model has been kept somewhere like a garage or a garden shed, but, if it has been kept in a centrally heated house over the years - you may have to try and introduce some dampness back into the planks to make them swell slightly and make them settle back in.

Aye
john e
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White Ensign

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 10:00:25 PM »

Stavros- as usuall we are on the same way....  O0
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Stavros

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 11:17:40 PM »

Good grief someone actually agreeing with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0 {-)


Stavros
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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 08:26:24 AM »

Firstly, thank you all for all the information.

As far as age goes, my sister can remember it in the same state as you see it now as far back as the early 70's.  It sat on a shelf on the back wall of his shed for as long as we can remember.  It then spent some time in our garage until a few years back when I brought it into the house with the idea of restoring it.  We think that it could be early 60's though because my Grandad made it for my uncle (could even be late 50's).

The planking seems to be in real good condition, however I guess it could have dried out with it being in our house for the last few years.
The inside of the hull looks really rough, as though he's had a go at making it water tight in the past (I just hope I've not damaged it by bringing it inside the house).  Will I have to take the inside down to bare wood also?

This is probably a daft question, but how can I re-dampen the planks?  Is it a case of floating it in some hot water {-)

I was going to restore a traction engine, but the wife won't let me bring one in the house. ;)

Thank you all again.

Geoff.

Forgot to say sorry for my delay in replying.  I don't have the internet at home so I've been using the connection at work.
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John W E

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2008, 08:38:36 PM »

Hi there Geoff - Buckfast

When you have succeeded in removing all of the paint from the hull; ensure that there are no splits in the actual planks themselves.  Gaping big splits or cracks I am referring to – as that is one of any indicators of the planks drying out.  Not too worried about the gaps between the planks as these will be filled in eventually with chosen filler.   When you have filled all the gaps/spaces in the planking on the outside of the hull and smoothed back; you have 3 options.

a)   A coat of polyester resin with a tissue matt layer on the exterior of the hull
b)   A coating of Epoxy resin with a tissue matt
c)   One or two coatings of clear Epoxy

That decision will be entirely up to you & also the state of the hull; if you have had to use an excessive amount of fillers, I would recommend the Epoxy with the tissue matting on the outside.    The reason for putting the Epoxy on the exterior and not on the interior of the hull is, we want to create a waterproof barrier, as well as adding a certain percentage of strength to the hull.     

This theory of allowing the timber to breathe is a bit of a fallacy; if we allow the timber to become damp and it begins to move and twist, it will begin to delaminate from the Epoxy barrier which has been added on.

In the worst case scenario; water can penetrate between the planking and the Epoxy doing more damage than good.

You must therefore put a barrier between the water and the hull.    Some of the cheaper Epoxy resins are not 100% waterproof – they are, approximately 99% waterproof when judged against Polyester resins and some paints.

So when you have decided which way you are going to go on the exterior of the hull; the next stage is to seal the internal side of the hull; which, I would personally do with just a layer or a coating of Epoxy Resin on the inside – as the resin on the inside is not subjected to the same harsh treatment as the exterior.

Hope this helps.

Aye
John e
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2008, 09:18:31 AM »

Slightly off topic but I've used Wilkinsons paint stripper on a fiberglass hull, with no problems.
It made a mess of the vac moulded parts though.
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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2008, 12:11:10 PM »

RR
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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2008, 12:11:55 PM »

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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2008, 12:13:18 PM »

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buckfast

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2008, 12:20:46 PM »

Hello all.

As you can see I've posted some more pics.  I have actually unearthed sheet 1 of the plans but unfortunately no more have come to light.  Can anyone now throw a beam of light on it?

Also.  Looking at the state of the wood underneath the paint, it looks like I'll have to re-fill and paint.  Any suggestions for filler type and pain?

Thank you all again.

Geoff.
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tigertiger

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Re: Help needed
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2008, 12:30:00 PM »

Hi Geoff

There is a website that deals with something called 'X' plans.
These are planse that are no longer published, but you can still get them.

I cannot think where it is, but someone on here will know the link.
Might be worth a check.

Mark
 
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tigertiger

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Re: Help needed - can any of you identify this hull? Paint striping
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2008, 12:55:30 PM »

Not on the X list sorry.

Found now http://www.xlistplans.demon.co.uk/ in case anybody were curious.
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buckfast

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Re: Help needed - can any of you identify this hull? Paint striping
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2008, 03:42:30 PM »

Hello Mark.

Thanks for trying.  I will take a look at your link anyway just out of interest.

Cheers

Geoff
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