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Author Topic: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.  (Read 42613 times)

orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2006, 08:54:59 PM »



I like to try and keep models as neat as possible, less pins on show, no dried glue bulging out anywhere, etc.? I didn't want to do any pinning down, but I saw these pictures (below) and realised pins can be used as part of the design of the finish of the boat.? OK so this Ferarri thing is a beautiful piece of work and pretty much out of my league, but the pins do add something to it, and my adversity to them dropped.



Just look at this thing - it's a work of art!? It's from www.modelshipmaster.com







I'm not suggesting for a minute that my pins on the Slo Mo look even a tenth as good as the ones on this model, but I just realised thanks to this boat, that they aren't a bad thing.
This model was also one I used on the other forum to illustrate the finish I want to get for my model.? I love that high gloss shine! :)


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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2006, 09:29:43 PM »


Back to the build...
This is where Leadfoot's advice about cutting templates really came in handy. The supplied pieces really were a rubbish fit, and I'd been tempted even to try and plank the area where these pieces went!? It would've been an absolute frightmare, as this area bends round the boat, widens, twists and thins down to nothing at one end ( :o :o) but I was feeling confident with my planking, and willing to give it a go.? That was the plan until the template idea was given to me.? A 90p sheet of 2mm ply saved me hours of headache slogging my way through Planking Hell...!? Also thanks to Bluebird for the hint about scoring the back of the piece to be bent - cheers Cap'n!

This pic shows the side piece going on.






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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2006, 09:54:54 PM »


As a slight distraction (read 'relief'! ;D), I'll post a couple of pics of my last build, the Billings Phantom, which I took recently.? They are slightly dark as I had set the shutter to a fast speed to capture the water and 'freeze the action' !!




 


Anyway, what do you think?? There's a Graupner Speed 400 motor in her now, as I had overheated two standard ones and fancied a little more speed? You can see from the angle she sits at in the water that I got what I wanted! :D? BTW the front seat is missing because I had to cut a hole in the bottom of the seating area to let cool air in and keep the motor cool, and if the seat is in place it gets in the way of the airflow!  Remember - "It's not a bodge, it's a practical solution to an engineering problem!"

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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2006, 10:13:24 PM »


This next pic shows the side piece fitted on one side - or almost fitted anyway.? You can see from this shot how ill-fitting that flat piece was.? I should've cut my own template for that one, as well.? I don't know why I didn't, maybe I was trusting myself to sort out any gaps with filler.? Grrrrrr! >:(
I cut the template for the side piece slightly big on the top edge so I could just sand it down.





Sorry about the white-out in the upper half of this pic, the sun was glaring in. You can still see though the solution I came up with to solve a big problem I was having glueing these side pieces in place.? You can glue them to the bulwarks, but where there is no framework as such to stick them to, it seems that you just have to glue the raw edge of the side piece to the planking going over the top of the boat.? Quite a lot harder than it sounds, and quite unlikely to work very well, too.? Anyway I just decided to glue scraps of planking to the underside of that top planking, as something to stick the side piece to - something it could mate up to.? I show this as some future help to anyone else making this model and hitting the same snags I did! ;)




 
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2006, 10:30:09 PM »

 

 Right!! With these 2 pics, we're now up to date!! :)? 3 nights work, and I'm done!? Bluebird, now you can see why it was too late to pour some resin in and seal the inside of the boat!? It's completely sealed, a hollow hull with no holes anywhere!? Quite odd really when you think about it.




The next stage appears to be cutting the hole in the top of the hull, then I start the application of the veneer.? Although I really ought to look at the instructions...? I'm sort of looking forward to this bit and dreading it at the same time. It's when I finally get to see how the boat will look when it's done, and the oppertunity I get to really make the most of how good this model could look if veneered and varnished well.? It's make or break time.




I'm lucky I guess in that the Phantom had exactly the same sort of veneer on her hull, so I have had experience of it (see photo)....



.... But this hull is a bit more tricky than that one.? It has more curves, more ins, more outs.? I'm particularly (not) looking forward to seeing how the sides will turn out, where they start to bend underneath the hull at the back end.  Wish me luck!!!!

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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2006, 09:05:22 AM »

Ok, I decided to break with tradition and start looking properly at the instructions.? Apparently the next thing I had to do was cut a big hole in the top.? There were no dimensions given on the instructions as to where to cut the hole or how big to make it, so we had to resort to actually looking at the plans!? Blimey, they don't make it easy for you, do they? :D?

I worked out that the easiest way to mark out would be to have a starting point for all measurements, to I chose to draw a line across the hull from where the bulbous side bits come in, then find the centre of that line, and that would be my starting point.

Thing is....... Does this line look 'straight' to you?? Is it perpendicular to the planks? ???? I honestly can't tell if it's ok, or if there's some sort of optical illusion going on, or if, somehow, it's wonky!



For the life of me I can't work it out - how could it be wonky? The back edge of the sticky-outy bit is one of the frame pieces, one of the 'bulkheads', which would have been nigh-on impossible to put on wrong.? Please comment and tell me it looks fine to you and there's just something wrong with my eyes... ::)



I spent a long time very carefully measuring out on the plans, and marking out onto the top of the hull where I was supposed to cut.? Eventually I had this :



All I could think of to do was cut well inside the lines so I could just cut/sand the hole bigger when I knew exactly how big it was meant to be.

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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2006, 09:20:21 AM »

NO GOING BACK NOW!!!
After getting busy with the leatherman again, we had this - as we say in God's Wonderful County of Yorkshire - "a whackin' gret 'oyle".? Now I see how big this hole is, I see I can get inside the boat easier than I thought I would be able to, so I'm going to get some of this here resin stuff that Bluebird was on about, and try and coat as much of the inside as possible.? I can also dob the odd bit of glue inside and feel a bit better that the bottom is well and truly stuck down.




Cutting this hole was horrible!? I've spent 4 months so far on this thing and tried to hard to do it well and neatly - and here I was suddenly chopping big holes in it with a big rough saw on a penknife.? All I could think of was that I was doing it in the wrong place, or I was cutting it too big and ruining the whole thing... Eeek! :o
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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2006, 03:33:26 PM »

Hi again orby1,
Bob here, southern boy gone north. Definately the best direction.(north that is)
Best model boat club is up here!!!

If you are going to epoxy resin the inside of the hull, then there is no need to glue as well. All my wooden models are held together with epoxy resin. I use cyno to hold planks to frames or side skins to frames, and then just resin everything in sight, both inside and out. I have IC powered craft as well as fast electric and sailing boats all constructed this way.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2006, 05:54:50 PM »

Hi Bob,
Ok, I didn't know that the resin did a good job of gluing as well - as I said before, I haven't used this resin before.
I rang my model shop about "lay up resin" (as you called it) today and they didn't know what I was on about, I may go down to one of the boat builders' yards nearby and see if they have some.  I notice though that you just mentioned using 'epoxy resin' on the inside of the hull.  I thought that epoxy resin was the stuff which went on the outside of the boat and got polished up!  You've got me all  ??? now!! :D

I'm sorry mate, could you please explain again for this relative beginner, which resin I need for which job, & what each one is called exactly?  I'd be grateful, then we could move on!
Thanks ever so much for your advice.

By the way, whereabouts are you in the North? I hear there's a very good club in Doncaster.
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barriew

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2006, 07:15:02 PM »

Orby,

Go to your local Halfords - they will have resin in a yellow can in the body repair section, along with P38 filler , wet & dry paper and lots of other goodies! That is all you need for the inside.

Barrie
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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2006, 07:33:33 PM »

Hi orby1,
I just typed you a long screed about epoxy resins, hit the wrong button and it's all gone.
I have to go out now, so do not have time to re do it.
If you've not had any other replys to your last queery by the time I get home, I'll do it again.
As I understand it the Halfords resin is polyester not epoxy resin, but they may have a new one I have not seen.
Regards Bob.
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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2006, 12:22:44 AM »

Hi orby1,
Laying up resin is used when building a glass hull, to bond the layers of cloth together.
This can be polyester or epoxy, but epoxy is considered the best as it is more flexible.
The epoxy resins we use in our hobby, fall into three main catagories. quick med and slow setting.
5 minute for tacking jobs. is normally said to be not as strong or as water proof. 30 minute, which gives more time to get things where they should be before the resin hardens. Then there is the 12 hour version, which is used to get the best finish, also when using a light weight cloth to give strength to the hull.
I use zpoxy available from model shops. Other epoxy systems are available under different names. I have found that some others suffer from a problem called waxing, which stops further coats from sticking, and causes puddles to form in the finish. This can be sanded away, so could lead to a better finish as you have no option but to sand it well back. This can become really complex subject, but most of us get by with the minium.
I'm surprised that no one else came back while I was out, so I hope this will be of some help to you.

Regards Bob.
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John W E

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2006, 11:44:29 AM »

Hi there Bob

I looked at your posting yesterday and came to the conclusion 'too many cooks spoil the resin' so thought it would be nice if you explained between the different resins which you have done well.?

The only thing I could add is where some people use matting on the inside of the hull as well as resin, some of us just use pure resin to coat the inside of the hull to seal the inside.

Aye
John E
Bluebird
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2006, 02:18:09 PM »

Fellas,
Thanks for your help and patience! I have to learn somehow, and you're really helping me out.  I'm sure my dad knows all about this resin malarkey as he's done fibreglass hulls aplenty, but he's up in Yorkshire, so he can't help me.  Had I known the resin was the stuff you glue fibreglass layers down with I think I may have felt more confident going and buying some.  Anyway I just rang the model shop (Wycombe Models, High Wycombe) down the road and they have polyester and epoxy resins, so I'm off down there now. 

I just got up after working nights last night though, so I may have a cuppa first and stare out of the window for 10 minutes!

Thanks again for your patience!

Julian. ;)
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2006, 04:11:23 PM »

Okey dokey.
Like Andy on the 'Hull Finish' thread, I have come home with some SP 113 resin, from Ripmax.  I had no idea how much I would need so I bought a nice big jar!  I'm sure I'll need it again sometime anyway so it won't go to waste.  It's annoying though that the place I feel like I need to get this stuff most is right down inside the bow end of the boat where those ill-fitting panels made water-tightness less likely - and that's exactly the area I can hardly get to through the hole in the top!
Never mind, I'll have fun and try my best - we'll be fine.
Thanks again everyone. :)


I was asking about motors while I was in the shop.  I've decided to go for electric rather than IC as some places don't allow IC boats to run, plus they're expensive, and I've heard they're sometimes messy.  On the other forum some kind gent advised I get a 'speed 700' motor, so I looked at those and they look fine (20,000 RPM looks fine enough for me!!! :o).  However Richard, the helpful guy in the shop said I should ask you lot about brushless motors, as this set-up wouldn't have a very long run time.
I know I'm getting ahead of myself here as I still have a way to go before I need to fit the motor - but what can you tell me about brushless motors?  Apparently they're a bit more expensive, but a lot smaller & lighter (which leaves more weight & room for batteries) and more efficient too. We briefly looked at one potential set-up which would have had the motor doing 35,000 RPM !!!  That ought to do it!  I was grinning like a Cheshire cat!
Mentioning this now will give me loads of time to hear everyone's advice and opinions before I go out shopping and ignore everyone, just buying the shiniest one.!!! ;D
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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2006, 06:36:22 PM »

Hi orby1
One other tip I can tell you about, is the fact that it is almost impossible to remove all the resin from the brush after use, so they go hard.
The system I use, is to remove as much resin from the brush as soon as I finish, using old news paper, and do not wait to do this at a later time. (there won't be one) And then qive it a quick clean in meths. Dry again and then drop it in a jar with about an inch of meths in the bottom, and then fit back the screw lid. I have three different size brushes in my jar, which have been in use for the last four years. I avoid using cellulose thinners in the jar, as over time it attacks both the bristles and the paint on the handle.

Also in hard to get at areas, I just thin down the resin and slop it around inside the hull.

One other really good tip, is to have at least three wooden models on the go at the same time, so when you mix too much resin etc. you can use up the spare on another boat, so no waste. (that's my excuse any way)

Regards Bob
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splodger

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2006, 07:51:58 PM »

Don't entirely agree with this. Best way I've found is to clean brushes really thoroughly in two or three lots of clean thinners, or preferably acetone. You're right that this attacks the bristle adhesive, but if you give the brush a really good acetone clean after use then let it dry out, I've not experienced any problems. All meths would do is keep the brush moist, it won't stop epoxy curing in the bristles, just slow down the process. Brushes sold for fibreglass work aren't attacked by acetone or thinners, but ordinary paint brushes are, they use a different adhesive.
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riggers24

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2006, 09:53:44 PM »

Orby 1, If I remember right hasn't a gent called Ernie Lazenby who writes articles in marine modelling. I am sure he has built this model and he does play with motor set ups. Go to Here Ernie has his model in the gallery and you may find a contact to send him an email. I have contacted Enrie in the past and found him to be very helpfull

Riggers
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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2006, 10:35:20 PM »

Hi again,
Ernie did build a version of this boat, but it was the styrene hull version, unless he built two.

I can confirm it is fitted with a brushless motor and went very well. There again, most of his boats do.

Bob

P.S.  I just had a look at the members list, and unless he has changed his forum name he is not on this forum YET
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2006, 03:21:51 PM »

Riggers,
Cheers, I just emailed Ernie, let's wait and see if he has anythihg to say about motors.  I can confirm that his Slo Mo is the 1:8 scale version though, a little bigger than mine (in fact I think that's a photo of his version on page1 of this thread!), but he should still be a valuable source of info and help.

Splodger and Bob - thanks fellas, oh for the joys of a workshop where I could leave things like pots of meths and acetone around!!  I live in a small flat and have to tidy everything out of a corner of the lounge to build my boat, then tidy it all away again afterwards to make room for 'everyday stuff'!  And knowing me, my 2yr old would find the pot and throw it on the floor or drink it or something!!   ::)  Luckily I'm saved from brush-cleaning hassles by the model shop throwing in a set of cheap disposable epoxy brushes - 1.45 for 6. 
And speaking of epoxy, it's time I got off my backside and got this thing done.  More pics later if I get chance!

All the best, Julian.
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Andy

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2006, 03:47:21 PM »

Hi,
Don't go to mad with high revs brushless or you will never swing a large
enough prop to push the boat.
You need something like a Hacker 50l-12 (2013revpervolt)and 12cells,
this will run a 2blade 40-42 and be quick.
Also this will keep the size ( amps) off e.s.c down, and be a reasonable cost.
Andy
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barriew

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2006, 08:41:27 AM »

Orby,

The current (May) MMI has pics of Ernie's boats and one of the real thing. Full article on Water Sped Record attempts. Will be on sale next week I think - got my subscription copy yesterday.

Barrie
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riggers24

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2006, 09:16:53 AM »

Hi Orby1,

You could also try Astec They sell brushless motors and I have used them in the past, I had a question which was answered straight away.

Riggers
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2006, 06:02:25 PM »

I have registered on the forum so ask away on anything to do with this type of boat.

Ernie Lazenby
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riggers24

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2006, 06:17:53 PM »

welcome aboard Ernie.

Marc
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