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Author Topic: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.  (Read 42630 times)

orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2006, 10:29:01 PM »

Ayup fellas,
Seems like a while since I last posted (4 days! :D) - fortunately I've got away from the land of fizzy lager up to my parents' in Barnsley where many boat-related shenanegans are going on.  My dad's there working on his Model Slipway 'Maggie', whilst I beaver away putting the veneer on the Slo Mo.  I've got a full day tomorrow to get cracking on her so you can expect a report when I get home and upload my photos.  There should have been some major progress.  It's going on ok so far, but proving to be 'interesting' towards the stern where the sides of the boat fold underneath.  You'll see in a few days.
Model Slipway is only 5 miles from my dad's house so we have to call round for a drool, plus my dad's Billings Smit Nederland has still never got her bottom wet 2 months after completion, so I'm demanding we go and take her for a spin.  This may eat into precious building time, but it has to be done.

Ernie - I bought MMI today and am really chuffed to have you make yourself available to me to pick your brains - if anyone knows anything about this thing I'm trying to build, then it's you.  You may find your knowledge is definately required in a while when I get onto motors.  Thanks a lot for your time and attention!  ;)

More later, peeps.
Julian.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2006, 04:05:30 PM »


Ok then, here we go.? Here's how we were a few days ago, working away to trying to get the veneer onto the Slo Mo.? It's exactly the same stuff as was used on my Billings' Phantom, my last build, so at least I'm familiar with the stuff.? I used a mixture of wood glue, cyano and elbow grease to get it on straight.? As you can see here, we were just about to get to the tricky bit where it bends under the stern.





What I found to be the hardest thing about it last time was trying to get it on flat.? When you put glue on of any kind, the strips begins to curve, so the edges of each strip bend upwards away from the boat.? A right pain!? ?My dad struggled badly with this on his Phantom and he now has ridges all along the sides of the boat - not good - and the last thing I wanted to happen here.? ?Anyway here's a pic of the beginning of the process with my dad's Model Slipway 'Maggie' just starting to take shape in the background.






I threatened to take my dad out to get his Smit Nederland wet, and it had to be done.? Unfortunately the wind was up and the water was pretty choppy to say the least!? Our Phantoms were getting water over the decks, so we brought them back in sharpish.? The Smit was going to be fine though, it's a lot bigger, and made of sterner stuff.? Here she is taking to the water for her maiden voyage on the high seas of Manvers Pond, South Yorkshire.



As you can see, it was quite choppy!? Funny how a big hefty metre-long boat can look so small when it's being rocked about on the waves.? Still she handled really well, especially considering the amount of water which was blown over her decks and into the bottom of the hull!!!! ;D




I did get more done and have a few more pics to post, but I've run out of time today.  I need to ask more advice too....
Julian.x
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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2006, 01:43:35 AM »

Hi orby1
Don't try this on your model, as it is just a guess. Others may know better. If you were to try spraying a fine water mist on the outer surface of the veneer, this may stop the the curling up problem you mentioned. I know that when using tongue and groove timber, the rear surface should be sealed before it is attached to battens etc, as this prevents the boards curling afterwards. The theory as I understand it, is that the wood expands across the grain when it gets damp, (glue etc.) but as the outer surface is dry it does not. Hence the curl.
Regards Bob
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2006, 10:06:17 AM »



Thanks Bob, that's yet another little hint I can use to make my life easier.? I'll try the water spray trick and report back.? The theory of it makes sense, I'm sure it should work.

Here's a pic of the boat after I'd done both sides in veneer. Just for interest I put it in shot with my dad's Smit, and our Phantom river cruisers. You can also see a Calder Craft 'Clyde Pilots' as well, an old build of my dad's.





A closer shot of the veneer once it's on. I hadn't let it set enough to properly sand the edges down at this point - hence the slightly unfinished look.? I was please with the end result of the area towards the stern where the sides fold underneath though - my dad's Dremel came in handy at just finely whizzing the unwanted veneer off.





One problem I'd had was that on mistakenly lifting the boat by the hole in the top, the planking on the top of the deck was very bendy and I feared I might pull the planks apart very easily when working on the boat.? It was simply because there was a frame inside the boat just behind the front of the hole which had been cut through, so there was nothing supporting the planks on top until the next frame about 10cm further forwards.
My solution to this was to use a scrap peice of 4mm ply from the box and glue it to the underside of the top of the boat just forward of the hole, side to side.? I used a peice from where the frames had been cut out, so it had a curve almost exactly the same as that of the top of the boat.? Once this set, the top of the boat was a lot stronger and I felt a bit more confident about sticking veneer onto it.
I had to do exactly the same thing at the back of the hole inthe top as well.



I can only hope that these supporting peices don't "xxxxx" something up further along in the build....


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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2006, 10:53:25 AM »

Here we have the problem I mentioned asking advice about.? I'm not ready to solve it just yet but as I'm working on the veneer all over the hull, hopefully you lot can be taking a look and offering a helpful word or two...
Take a look at the photo below.? I've uploaded it to the site as a larger version so you can see it clearly - it shows the instructions for the next bit I have to do after this veneer.? There's no text in the instructions, just this drawing.? My questions are these:? Just what the heck is this thing I'm meant to stick on the boat, and where do I stick it?
It doesn't look like it goes actually INSIDE the hull, but you can see from pictures of the finished model, there's nothing like this on the outside either.?  It definately ISN"T the engine cover, as that's a seperate and easily indentifyable vac-formed peice of plastic.  HELP!!! :D



After a long search I found this peice of vac-formed plastic which I believe I have to cut in half lengthways (there's a guide line on it), which forms the peice concerned.? Agreed?
It is about the right length to go from the front of the hole to that notch, so it's obviously meant to go there somehow.? Perhaps Ernie Lazenby can help!? Just what is it, and where does it go?






Finally here's a shot of the top veneers going on.? The quality of veneer laying on the top of the boat has to be first rate as it will obviously be on show all the time. It's tricky as the slightest error in laying it down will leave a gap somewhere, even the smallest of which will be very visible.? That seam down the middle has to be bang on.? As you can see I've opted for sticking a plank down the middle to butt the veneers up against, this will hopefully ensure I get a straight line.? This plank can obviously come off later when I start the other side.



Anyhow, this is what I'm going to be getting on with whilst I leave you with the problem of the 'funny white thing'.  Come on fellas, don't let me down! ;D
More later - Julian.

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John W E

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2006, 12:59:18 PM »

 ;D Well hello there

Not too sure about your 'plastic box' problem - however,

deck veneering - check if you can all photographs of the full life size vessel - because, normally down the centre of any deck there is a 'king plank' which you have represented with your white piece of wood.  You could replace that white strip of wood with a strip of veneer, this would be left on.  As you are doing, the other veneers would butt up to this at a 45 degree angle.

Hope this gives you some thought.

Aye
John E
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2006, 01:54:20 PM »

Hiya John, nice to hear from you again. ;)

About the deck veneering, I took your advice and had a good 'google around' for more pictures - I couldn't find any which showed a king plank.? Below is a pic of the Slo Mo Shun V (mine is the IV) which gives a good view of the deck planking, and below that is a shot of the finished Billings' model.? As you can see it also shows no king plank.? I think I'm safe in carrying on planking as I am doing






On both these pics there's a nice smooth 90 degree 'V' shaped seam running down her top deck.  Can anyone else shed any light on this 'king plank' idea?  I don't want to say you're wrong John as pictures of the version of the real Slo Mo I have pictures of don't show the top too well.  Thanks for the advice. AGAIN! ;D
Julian.

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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2006, 04:22:34 PM »


Too late for any 'king planks' now John! :D? I hope I've not bogged it up - I don't think I have.
Here's the little bit I've done today - just a few more planks of veneer onto the bow.? I've had all day to myself to play with it but have had loads of other rubbish to do instead. ::)
Anyway as can be seen we have a nice straight line to butt the other peices up against.? Luckily for me my plan worked.? I'll tell you something too - John's trick with spraying the veneers worked brilliantly.? They curved up the other way so when they were put down against the boat, the edges were touching first - perfect.? An added bonus was that the water softened the strips and made them more pliable too.  I'm very pleased with it as it's all gone on nice and flat, nice and even. No gaps.




Right I'm off. No more boats for a few days - I have shifts to do at work, and families to play with!? Hopefully when I come back to the boat next week, we'll have some interesting ideas about what that white plastic thing is.? I've emailed Ernie Lazenby about it, I hope he has some clue!
Have fun, people.
Julian.

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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2006, 05:38:34 PM »

Hi orby1,
Looking at the pictures above, it looks like the plastic pieces are the exhaust covers.

Bob
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2006, 09:18:59 PM »

Hi orby1,
Looking at the pictures above, it looks like the plastic pieces are the exhaust covers.

Bob

Rightio Bob, I think I see what you're getting at - the black tubes are obviously the exhaust 'pipes' - you can see them on the real thing too, but there's no sign of anything like these plastic bits on the real thing, and looking at the picture of the finished model above, could these covers be underneath the pipes? I just can't see them. You obviously can, mate - how do you see them fitting to my model?
It looks as though the upper outer edge of the plastic bit (where the '24' and the arrow point to on the drawing) is glued to the underside of the edge of the hole.... I think! ???  But does the sloped end face fore or aft? The persepctive on the drawing isn't very good.
Thanks though Bob, we may be onto something... ;)
Julian.
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BobF

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2006, 10:56:22 PM »

Hi orby1,

Can't worry about spelling so here goes.

If you look at the full size photo of Slo Mo V the bow end of the manifolds or as I belive the Americans call them Headers slope down towards the stern, and the rear ends then slope back up again.
The red engine cover is narrower than the extreme? outside edges of the manifolds which would stick out and be on show.If you look at your picture of Slo Mo IV you can see that the rear of the exhaust pipe is sticking up, slopes down towards the bow and then goes up again, but changes shape. The engine cover is smaller than the hole in the deck, and there is a small black section that fills the gap. The pieces you are concerned about, at least to me, look like they sit against the side of the engine cover and the black piece of flat deck/engine cover.
Hope that makes sence.

With regard to the deck, and if it should have a king plank. I've had two full size hydros, which were the same shape as Slo Mo, although smaller outboard powered boats. The bow deck was formed with full sheets of ply which just butted together down the centre line.
 I don't? remember techinical terms too well, but I'm not sure that the term king plank means that it has to be on show. So there fore, the sheets of ply were probably fixed to the king plank which was underneath.
The above are only my thoughts on the matter, and I am not saying that anyone else is wrong. (it's normally me)
Regards Bob
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boatmadman

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2006, 11:06:00 PM »

Hi,
have a look at my Pen Duick pics in 'my builds' that shows the king plank concept clearly, in this case mahogony next to lime planks.

Ian
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2006, 09:48:44 PM »

Boatmadman - thanks for the tip - yes your Pen Duick is absolutely beautiful, the work you've done on that decking is gorgeous, I like how your king plank seems staggered by the lime planks being cut square at the end. Was the original like that? It's very interesting. Scratch building is something I'd like to do one day but I don't think I have the skills as yet.

Bob, yes, I can see what you're on about, how the exhaust pipes are bent and go up and down - the engine cover is narrower than the exhausts and also than the hole the engine sits in.  I thiink where my problem lies is the black bits on the model between the engine cover and the wooden body. I'm positive these black areas must be the plastic mystery shapes I'm confused about - they must be. I just can't see how they'd actually go on.  If they were to go like I said earlier, with the upper edge glued to the underside of the edge of the hole, that would be correct in that the exhaust pipes would have room to bend downwards, but I don't think that would be right, as any water coming over the boat would go straight into these holes and onto the engine. And they're big holes. Billings wouldn't have designed it like that, would they?
It looks from the model like the black areas are level with the top of the hull (so the engine cover sits on top) but somehow the exhaust pipes go down 'into' them and up and out again at the back.
I can see myself making my own solution to this in the end!!! ;D

Many thanks fellas, we'll get there in the end.
Julian.x
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2006, 09:52:22 PM »

Hi.
Not been able to do very much to the boat for a while, although I have had a few more sugestions about what the white things are.? I've been lucky enough to have Ernie Lazenby reply to my emails, and amongst other things he helped me with, he thought the white bits could be to house the batteries.? I'm not convinced, as they'd be too flimsy to hold them once they're cut out of the sheet, and only 'L' section in profile anyway so the batts would fall out.
We've been briefly discussing motors and propulsion systems.? Apparently the best way to get this thing really moving would be to use a method called 'Surface Drive', which I admit I hadn't heard of before yesterday.? It would involve dropping the Billings-supplied prop and prop-shaft, which I really have no problem with, and using a brushless motor.? He's certainly full of interesting information, like that the real Slo Mo Shun was not planked at all but covered with strips of marine grade ply.? Hey I was right about the king planks too! ;D

Anyway - I did a little reasearch on surface drive - take a look here:? http://powerandmotoryacht.com/features/0604surfacedrives/
and here:? ? http://www.nava.ca/power.htm

Here's a little but I cut from one of the links to give you a quick idea if you don't fancy getting right into it....
At first glance, a surface-drive system doesn?t look like any propulsion technology you?ve seen. It has a short shaft off the transom and most closely resembles a stern drive. But unlike the stern drive, it doesn?t hang down, the shaft shoots straight back. In fact, when a boat is underway, almost the entire drive unit is out of the water. In addition, the propeller on a surface-drive unit is different (see ?Piercing Props,? this story). It has to be designed?unlike a completely submerged straight-inboard or stern-drive system?to work in both air and water. When running at high speed, only about 40 to 50 percent of a surface prop is in the water.
If anyone knows of any links explaining surface drive in terms mere land-lubbers like me can understand, let me know... ;D



I have had a little time to put some more veneers on.? Here's where we're up to.



I'm getting there slowly but surely. :)
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2006, 03:43:57 PM »



It's hard for me to get very long to build my boat, but I'm gradually getting there.




Slowly coming along now. ;)
Julian.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2006, 11:25:39 AM »

Finally got a day to myself!
I've got problems though.? All along I've known that one the most important things about this build was to get the mahogany veneer right, as it was going to be a really nice feature of it.? If it ended up looking crap, it would ruin the whole thing.? Well, it would for me, anyway.
Anyway, what I discovered a couple of weeks ago was that the veneer I put on the front of the boat had dried and left a tiny gap between each strip.? I was very very careful not to leave one when I was sticking it on, so the only thing I can think to explain it is this:

Do you recall the problem of the strips curling away from the boat at the edges due to being wet on one side and expanding? To cure that I sprayed the other side with water mist to make the strip lay flat, as it expanded the same rate on either side.? Now what I think happened is that as the strip dried, it shrunk again, leaving the gaps.? They're not even 1mm across, but they're there, and they look RUBBISH.?

But that isn't the main problem I have, the gaps can be filled with dark filler as a last resort and hopefully they won't be too noticable.

The problem is that each strip down the port side of the boat has to line up with the one that it touches on that central seam which I've already stuck down on the starboard side.? The edges of the strips should make a nice even line of 'V's up the middle of the boat.? So now if I want to make these strips line up to make the 'V's, I have to leave the same crappy looking gaps between them. The alternative is to have the port side strips meeting each other properly side by side but not lining up at all with the ones on the starboard side - thus throwing the 'V's right out.?

Which would look worse?? ?>:(

And I still don't know what those bloody white things are supposed to be.? ???

I need a beer.? That's it - I'm off to the pub later to cry into my pint. :'(


Here's a picture of what I discovered as I worked my way forwards again with the veneer up the other side.? It didn't line up at all!? To make the proper 'V' shape I had to leave this gap between two strips of about 4-5mm!



"xxxxx".

.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2006, 02:06:57 PM »

Right, I think I've averted the disaster I thought this was going to be, by a mixture of luck, wiggling things about, and desperation, I've got the strips to line up to make the 'V's up the front, AND not have a big gap.? The answer was staring me in the face all the time, but you know how it is - sometime you just have to look at things another way.
Take a look...



I've angled the strip (the 3rd one forward of the cockpit hole) backwards at a sharper angle, so as to simply widen the end (the face which meets the middle).? Of course this has meant chopping it towards to bottom to make it more a triangle than a rectangle, but I'm banking on there being too much going on with go-faster stripes and decals for it to be very noticable on the finished model.? See how at the bottom it's only about 15mm wide?? It'll have to do.
(Ha ha ha! I can't use the word? c o c k p i t? without it being censored!!! ;D)

So now I have just a few more strips to apply and then (thank God) I"ll be onto the next bit!

It's not been going so well today really. You know when you have those days when you should really just stop work, because nothing quite goes right?? You're all fingers and thumbs?? Even the strips I've put on now have got slight gaps between them in places despite me trying desperately to avoid them, and despite not being sprayed with water first.? Some of the planks I used were slightly wonky somehow, they may have been damaged in transit or something, and I didn't notice until I was holding them down for the glue to set and wondering why there was a gap for a couple of cm here or there.
It's very disappointing, but I just hope I'll be able to find some dark filler to fill the gaps, and maybe they won't look so bad in the end.
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boatmadman

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2006, 05:40:44 PM »

Hi,
Its maybe too late now,but did you consider planing a v slight angle on the edge of  each plank so you had a full butt join to glue on planks that follow the curve of the hull?,

I did this on a scratch built riva - see pics on this forum, and it hasnt caused a problem. I didnt spray the planks either - didnt know about that!

Ian
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2006, 05:54:13 PM »

just remembered another answer to the 'space between planks' problem.

Get a piece of plank, plane it into a wedge shape and glue it into the gap between planks,this seals the planking and is all but invisible, as you have used the same wood. I did this on my riva, and only I can see where it is.

ian
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2006, 11:46:04 AM »

Hi, Boatmadman,

Thanks for the tips!? At the moment, the hull is finally finished, veneer-wise, so thank the lord all that faffing about is over with!! ;D? ?I suppose it's something that anyone who's done diagonal planking onto a hull will be familiar with, but I didn't expect to have to shape a curve into a plank every now and then to avoid gaps.? Bluebird on here has shown me how to do that properly in the 'hints & tips' section.? Thanks again, John!! ;)

Anyway as I said, the veneering is now done.? What gaps there are are very thin - so much so that the only way to sort them out was to stain some filler and use that.? I considered putting a strip of veneer on its side and slotting that into the gaps, but some of them are only a couple of cm long at most, and very narrow - not even 1mm.? In fact they only show up at all because the wood beneath them is so light and the mahogany is dark. It would've looked messy too.

Right, moving on!? Next job is to sand the veneers all nice and smooth ready for a little painting.
(Actually, the next jobs are to do a mega-tidy on our flat ready for potential buyers to view it, then cook dinner, then cut out a new piece of carpet for our caravan, then drive to the caravan and fit the damn thing, then go off and do 4 nightshifts!? Oh joy!)

Here's a shot of where I'm gonna have to leave it for a few days.?



I've part-sanded just that upper small area down to see how the filler looks. Apologies about how small the picture is, you can't really see with an image this size but it looks absolutely fine close up.? It should tidy up very nicely (he says, crossing fingers).

.
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2006, 12:49:41 PM »

Hi,
I find that wiping down with white spirit after a sanding gives you a good indication of how it will finally look, and often brings out any imperfections that need dealing with

Ian
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2006, 01:39:04 PM »

Nice one Ian, thanks very much.  I had just used a damp rag on the pic above.

Honestly - where would I be without you lot??? ;D

Julian.x
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boatmadman

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #72 on: May 25, 2006, 01:49:52 PM »

you need to avoid water on bare wood, it swells the grain!
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2006, 02:31:02 AM »

you need to avoid water on bare wood, it swells the grain!

You're telling me!!!!? ;D
I wish you'd told me this when reply 52 came in!! :D
Julian.
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orby1

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  • Barnsley Boy - gone South
  • Location: Beaconsfield, S.Bucks
Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2006, 01:48:47 PM »


I had a bit of a Eureka moment today! It's about time I was happy with how this thing was going for a change - lately I've felt like I've been dragging the build along, not really enjoying it like I should.? Anyway, I finally worked out how these bl***y white things go!!!! YIPEEE!
They aren't exhaust covers, manifold covers, or anything in fact that the real boat should have - they're purely for the model, and just a way of holding the big red engine cover on.? ::) ::) ::)
Have a look - I got busy with the Dremel this morning and worked the hole in the top outwards so it was the right size, not just a rough cut. To find out exactly how big it should be, I made the wooden bottom of the engine cover in the hope that it might somehow help me get an exact measurement for the hole.? Then I cut out the bluddy white things (very carefully, I hate working with plastic!), and this is what I came up with.......







Here's what she looks like with both bluddy white things (BWT's from now on) in place and the bottom bit of the engine cover.





I kept the hole too small, and gradually sanded outwards until I got a nice tight fit for what I suppose will be a 'lid' over the motor.  The edges of the BWT's are straight and don't want to bend to follow the curve of the hull, but we'll have to work on that as we go along.  It's not clear whether the BWT's stick to the bottom of the engine cover and lift out with it, or whether they stick to the hull and the engine cover lifts away from them when you take it off.  Any ideas?  Access would obviously be easier if they came off.
Anyway, next job is getting the rear section of the hole cut neatly and correctly to size, and then painting a few odds and ends ready to bung them on.  I've ogt a mammoth stint at work coming up though I might be away for a while.  :(  Tell you what though, there are some brilliant builds on here, I'll be looking every day even if I have nothing to post.  Have a good week everyone!
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