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Author Topic: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.  (Read 42633 times)

orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2006, 02:02:38 PM »


I've been thinking about how I'm building up this thread, and how it seems miles bigger than all the others on here - I have 73 photographs now, for instance (!!! ;D!!!).  Most people just put a few here and there.  I don't worry about taking up room on the Mayhem server, as I host the pictures elsewhere and therefore use no room on Mayhem's server at all, but I'm worried I host too many, and that I explain too much about what I'm doing when 99% of people on here will already know.

The only guide I use is just to imagine I'm trying to explain how to build this boat to someone who's about my level of ability (small!!) with about my level of knowledge (small again!!). This can be seen by how much help I'm getting from other builders! ;D

I seem to be getting a lot of reads so I must be doing something right, but I'd be grateful for any advice about hosting less/more photos, doing less/more waffling on, etc.

Thanks guys,
Julian.
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bluesy

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #76 on: May 31, 2006, 03:15:42 PM »

Julian....

I think you'll not get any detractors on this board.  The problems you have overcome and explanations how you did it have been very informative.  Myself, I look forward to seeing your progress and smile at the solutions you find. 

All in all a great build log.

Thanks for doing it.

doug in Victoria, BC.
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John W E

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #77 on: May 31, 2006, 05:16:53 PM »

Hi there,

Never do yourself down, in your capabilities! & never think your abilities are inferior to anyone elses!

There are several type of people in this world - those that stand and think - and do nowt

and those that think they know little - but are very good!!  :D and are doing something useful with

their hands!   

Always remember - every one of us on this planet has one thing in common - we never stop learning!!

I, for one, really enjoy watching your build - and its inspiring - even when I am going through a

mundane part of a model build, & sick to me back teeth of the model - I have a look through the Forum

and see what everyone else is building and what they are doing - and it gives ya inspiration - so keep on

posting!!!!!

Always remember - Once struggle is grasped, miracles are possible!!!

Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2006, 08:29:52 PM »


Alright fellas? :D Long time - no see.
I've been very busy lately - I've had no time for messing about with boats, and to be honest I can only see this situation continuing for a while, I have work, and a holiday coimng up.  Ah well...

However - I need advice.  I've been painting bits of the Slo Mo up, spraying things silver and bunging them on, prepping the engine cover, getting bits ready etc.  I got to painting the panels that swoop along the side from the bow - you know, the ones I had to make my own from templates.  Well on the instructions, you can clearly see that all of this panel is to be painted silver, as though on the real boat this panel was made of metal.  However on other models I have seen (Ernie Lazenby's, for example) it seems to be made of wood, with just a square metal panel at the rear end.

So, is there a right and wrong way to do it?  Obviously the Slo Mo went though 5 different versions, and I'm sure each of those was tweaked and altered here and there along the way, so maybe neither method of painting my model would be wrong.  I just need someone to confirm this for me or correct me. Which is the correct version for this model?  I would prefer to do it in the 'wooden panel with metal hatch' version as I think it would look nicer, but I have a few areas of filler showing which might look rubbish if I put wood-stain and varnish on top. Probably the 'all metal' version is correct as that's what the instructions say after all, but... I don't really like it.   I'll have to use all my genius and cunning to find a solution... ;D

Also while I'm at it - how was the bottom finished? I want to leave it in plain wood and just cover it in resin, but I have more areas of filler and parts where I've sanded through layers of plywood which don't look particularly nice.  Any ideas, anyone?  I don't really want to paint it.

As for the resin, I'm mentally preparing myself for days on end of fine sanding, followed by painting on more coats and then more days on end of fine sanding, but does anyone have any tips on sanding into tight corners? There are going to be quite a few on this thing, and it would be a shame to 'fall at the last hurdle' and have areas like along the bottom of the tail fin for example, where I couldn't get in properly with the wet&dry, which would look unfinished.

Right, unless anyone knows anything about how to get freeview boxes working, I've finally run out of questions!  More later!
Julian. ;)
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boatmadman

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2006, 09:59:44 PM »

sanding into corners - cut a template block out of hardwood, wrap the wet&dry around it and use patience!

Take your time it will be worth it!

Ian
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Eddy Matthews

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #80 on: June 12, 2006, 08:11:39 AM »


I've been thinking about how I'm building up this thread, and how it seems miles bigger than all the others on here - I have 73 photographs now, for instance (!!! ;D!!!).? Most people just put a few here and there.? I don't worry about taking up room on the Mayhem server, as I host the pictures elsewhere and therefore use no room on Mayhem's server at all, but I'm worried I host too many, and that I explain too much about what I'm doing when 99% of people on here will already know.

The only guide I use is just to imagine I'm trying to explain how to build this boat to someone who's about my level of ability (small!!) with about my level of knowledge (small again!!). This can be seen by how much help I'm getting from other builders! ;D

I seem to be getting a lot of reads so I must be doing something right, but I'd be grateful for any advice about hosting less/more photos, doing less/more waffling on, etc.

Thanks guys,
Julian.

Never be afraid to post Julian - All these forums suffer from the same problem, hundreds of registered users, but only a few dozen that ever post anything!

I'm sure the great majority thoroughly enjoy watching a detailed account of a build, and it's a superb way for newbies and old hands alike to learn new things, as well as a way of you being able to ask for help and advice as you go...

I haven't commented on your build in the past (at least I don't think I have?), but I have followed it with great interest, so keep up the good work!

Regards
Eddy
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2006, 04:06:29 PM »

Hi Eddy - thanks for your friendly words!  And also to Bluesy and Bluebird too for letting me know how some of the people on the other end of this build perceive it.  It's nice to know it seems to be going down well and I'm not boring people's pants off after all...! ;D
To be honest, I'm really enjoying making this thread.  Ok, I'm getting lots of very valuable help and advice through doing it which was my main reason for starting it, but in the process I've discovered that I also just enjoy making some sort of record of how the model's coming together, and I enjoy documenting the problems I've come up against and what I did to get around them.  I'd like to print it out when I'm done, to keep with the model.
It's something that my folks can have a look at too, despite being 200 miles away, and I've a good mate in Berlin (ayup Dusty!) who takes a look and follows my progress.
So, I'll carry on as I am, posting pictures where I think I need to to explain properly what I'm doing, and imagining I'm writing for someone at about my level on the other end.
Thanks again for your replies, people. ;)
Have a good day.
Julian.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2006, 04:34:05 PM »

Hello again - long time no see!
I had a nasty shock when I saw the forum had gone down over the last couple of days - blimey!? This is already my 2nd attempt at making this thread, after the forums on modelboats.co.uk closed down on me after I'd got to about 30-odd posts !!!? Argh!? Anyway, well done Martin for rescuing us all.? I had to laugh about how much damage the hackers will have caused on Western capitalism, by closing down the forums of model boat builders... ::)

Anyway, after weeks away, I finally got to have a go on the boat yesterday. I stuck the silver 'metal' strips along the sides, a few other little metallic bits and bobs, and painted the BWT's in metallic silver.





Next was assembling the tail fin. The destructions weren't very helpful and I nearly made the whole thing completely wrong, but I eventually discovered it's meant to be hollow - with two sides made of thin ply, and the rest made up of 4mm ply.? Typically for the model there was a big gap between the side and the top and bottom 'edges' - you can see the small 'filler' bits of thin ply I cut and sanded down tapering away to nothing, towards the back end.





Here's what I had after a couple of coats of gloss red.? The 'aileron', moving part of the tail fin is made of two sheets of balsa stuck together, so it didn't take very well to paint. No matter how much I've put on the wood just soaked it up and left a nasty matt finish.? I have sanded it down with fine wet&dry hoping a 2nd coat will fare better, but it hasn't done.? I'm toying with the idea of making another one from harder wood and painting that instead.? Depends how patient I'm feeling as I go along...





At the moment the boat is covered in masking tape and paper, getting ready to paint the red stripe across the top.? As usual I really hope I get this bit right, as messing up something is big and obvious as this would really spoil things.? I hope I've got it symetrical.
More later, as I get along.
Well done again Martin for having a back up of everything on the forum!!!
Julian.

.
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John W E

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2006, 08:14:09 PM »

Hi ya there mate,

One trick you can try to stop paint from sinking into bare balsa wood is to give it a couple of coats of model sanding sealer.

It costs about ?2.50 for 125 mls tin.

Once you have given the balsa wood a couple of coatings of sanding sealer, you can rub the sanding sealer back to a very smooth finish and then paint straight over the top.  This prevents the paint being absorbed into the Balsa wood.

Hope this helps

Aye and Well done Martin, I thought ....................... here we go another Forum gone doon the drain... but hey presto....back again
Aye bluebird
john E
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2006, 04:56:08 PM »


Thanks again for the tip, John.  I've got a couple of coats of red on the tail fin now and it's not soaking into the wood anymore, so I think we're ok.

It's my turn to give out a tip now, instead of receiving them:  When spray-painting models when you have nowhere inside to use as a spray room, don't take it down to the grassy bit of rough ground round the corner under the big tree. Especially if there's even just a tiny breeze!! ;D   It's likely you'll get results like mine - a nice even coat, containing 3 small flies, lots of blown up dust, and even a caterpillar!!!  And if you're REALLY unlucky like I was, you'll plonk the boat down near an ants' nest and they'll all come out to see what's going on and say hello, a fair few of them getting stuck in your paint too.
In the end I just had to laugh about it.  I have absolutely nowhere inside I can use as a spraying room as our flat is so small, so I had no choice - I had to go outside.  I've learned my lesson now though, I've found somewhere lots better.

As you were!
Julian. ;)
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boatmadman

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #85 on: July 06, 2006, 09:19:56 AM »

a tough lesson learnt!
Why not make a box out of mdf to spray inside? Might work.

Ian
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #86 on: July 07, 2006, 11:36:33 AM »


Hi Boatmadman,
Yeah, I thought of making a spray-booth from some big cardboard boxes I have in the loft, but I thought at the time I'd be ok as I was.? This is quite a learning curve for me and I'm realising day by day that I'm still quite near the bottom!  I don't mind making mistakes as ong as they're not big ones, and as long as I learn from them.
Anyway, here's the result of the spray job.? Despite the attack of the mutant ants, it looks ok.? I've got a bit of overspray here and there which I'm very annoyed about as it just shows how rubbish my masking was. I'm not sure how to get it off either.? Any ideas, anyone? I'm going to try white spirit at first, and if that doesn't work, very fine wet & dry paper.



I've just sat the tailfin on the boat for the photo, it's not glued on yet or anything.? In fact I'm toying with the idea of leaving the tailfin off whilst treating the body and tailfin with resin seperately right at the end, and then glueing the tail on - that way it'll be one less nasty corner to try and flat back with the fine wet&dry.? What do you lot think?  Honest, I don't know where I'd be without you lot! ;)
Anyway, we're getting there, aren't we? ;D

Julian.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #87 on: July 19, 2006, 05:26:43 PM »

Long time no see, fellas!
Here's the latest update with the Slo Mo. I wish I could get more of this done and quicker, but I get so little time to myself, I'm afraid this is just as fast as I can go.? Thanks for sticking with me!! I'm seven months and counting with this thing!
I got the little bits of over-spray wiped off with a rag dipped in white spirit, and I can honestly say that she really looks something like it now the paint job is so much neater.? I'm actually proud of her again!? And as for the tailfin, I've decided to stick it on and then put the resin on, as I just want the whole thing to be done and 'working' before I put the resin on, as it is kind of the finishing touch isn't it?
As always though, any suggestions or advice are very welcome!!
I've spent an entire afternoon last week just tidying bits of the model up, doing things like painting little bits, carefully shaping the plastic engine cover so it follows the contour of the curve on top of the hull (that took ages!) I didn't make a post detailing all that stuff, it's not very interesting.

Anyway, here we are.? The destructions say to get on with? a.s.s.e.mbling the back end next - the mechanism for operating the rudder and tailfin, etc; but I wanted to have the 'top' of the boat completely finished before I got onto mechanical things, so I'm building this engine cover and exhausts now.

Here's how you do the exhausts - there are no dimensions or anything given of course, it's just up to you!? Start with a bit of 10mm dowel......





.......attack it randomly with leatherman tool and bung little bits of? ?b.r.a.s.s? ?rod onto it until you get......






......And and as it's 36 degrees round here today, don't forget liberal application of the boat-builder's friend, ice cold beer.





I can't see how to attach these exhausts to the actual boat, but I'll find a way.? I'm happy now with how this boat is meant to go together - lots of it is just left to the builder to invent as he goes along.? I was nervous at first as I was expecting to be told what to do all the time - now if I can't see any instruction I just plough ahead and make something up!! ;D

By the way - any word I type which contins the letters 'a', 's' and another 's' are coming out saying "bottom" so I'm sorry about having to put full stops in words like a.s.s.embling, but it's the only way to write the word!
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2006, 02:46:36 PM »

I'm having a pig of a day with this thing today.  I've been at it all day and the only thing I have to show for it is my blood-pressure is about 1,000,000 points higher.  The boat looks pretty much the same as it did at 9:00am this morning.
I get as far as I can with one little fiddly bit and then have to stop to paint something - then I think I may as well get on with something else while it dries, but 5 minutes into that bit I discover I have to do something else first, or I've made a tiny mistake weeks ago which I have to pull apart before I can go on, or something.  I've had two whole days now just trying to progress with this top bit - the engine cover and exhausts. Two days!  And it's not even finished!  I can't work out how to attach the exhausts to the BWT's, and there's no clue in the instructions.  It's not even structurally or mechanically important for the boat, it's just a bit which needs to look neat.  You have to paint bits before gluing on, which means using epoxy, as wood glue won't stick paint, and superglue is rubbish.  But whilst the epoxy sets, something moves slightly and buggers up 4 hours' worth of sanding, cutting, shaping, filling, and finally painting....
And my wife wonders why I'm in a bad mood when she gets in from work when I've had a day of to do what I like!!!

Why do we do this to ourselves?



Anyway, moving on.  I've only just noticed something very unusual about this model.  The rudder is not in the middle of the stern.  It's off to one side, quite a long way.
Can anyone confirm this is how the real boat was made?  It seems very odd to me.  I'll post a pic in a minute.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2006, 02:59:57 PM »

.

Here are a couple of pics of the plans.  You can see the rudder way off centre here, this one shows how the rod from the servo is meant to come out of the back end attaching straight to it.




This is the actual plans.  You can see obviously the big red tailfin is central, but also how the rudder isn't.  I'm ok building the boat in this way, I've just never seen a boat like this before, and I'm a little confused as to how well it will perform on the water.  Can anyone throw any light on this for me?


By the way, I can't see how the tail fin is controlled either, I'm afraid it might be meant to be fixed in place.  Boring!!!!  I'm not having that, I want it to move with the rudder.  I might have to get my thinking cap on.....
 ;D
Right, I'm off out on my bike, before this boat goes out of the window!
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barriew

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2006, 06:09:10 PM »

Are you aware that MMI for August has a detailed article on building the Billings kit!

Barrie
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2006, 07:41:05 PM »

Hi Barrie,
No, I wasn't aware of this!  I wish I'd known, there may be interesting titbits or hints I could use.  I'll go down the model shop tomorrow and pick one up.  Thanks for the info.
Any ideas about the rudder being off centre?
Thanks'
Julian. :)
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barriew

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #92 on: August 02, 2006, 12:03:09 PM »

Sorry Julian, passed my copy onto a friend so can't check. I didn't read the article fully as there is no way I am ever going to buy any Billings kit ever again!!!

Barrie

PS I will have the mag back soon, so if you cant get a copy let me know.
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #93 on: August 02, 2006, 02:32:41 PM »

.
Hi Barrie, don't worry mate, it gave me a good excuse to go down the model shop and pick up a copy.  The write up is very interesting - and I wish to God I'd had it a few months ago!! ;D  You've got to laugh really, haven't you?!!!!  There are definately a few little ideas in there I could've done with knowing before - my version deviates from Michael Bloss' one in a few little ways here and there and I think Michael's way is better.  The way he put the mahogany down using epoxy, so that any leaks are hidden when he puts the epoxy on the outside, or the way he's painted the red stripe on AFTER the resin, for example.  He's obviously been doing this a lot longer than I have though.
Ah well - que sera. :)

BTW, the off-centre rudder is correct.
Despite having a rough day with the Slo Mo yesterday I did persevere last night and put the 1st coat of epoxy resin on the outside.  The fella in MMI thins his down with acetone, but  1. I didn't know to do that, and 2. I haven't got any anyway, so there you go.  Surprisingly, despite following the instructions very carefully, I'd only been going about 10 minutes when the stuff started to harden on the brush and get extremely hot. I'd only done half the hull!  So much for slow curing!  Also, take a look at what has happened:




It looks like there's been some sort of reaction somewhere, between the epoxy and 'something unknown' on the hull - perhaps the glue.  I hope you can see properly on this picture, I tried as well as I could to show the problem reflecting in the light. It looks 'mottled' - I think that's just about the best way to describe it.  Some areas are misty grey too, sort of smokey, and there are areas which look like they have repelled the epoxy leaving bumps and 'dry' areas.  I just asked the guys in the model shop and their suggestion was that it is the residue from the glue I used to stick the mahogany down with (wood glue and cyano).  Also there's a line along the edge of the red stripe where the masking tape was, which has accepted the epoxy better than other bits, so obviously the adhesive from the masking tape soaked into the wood.
I have no idea what to do about this.  All I can think of is that I'll try to flat it all back as smooth as I can, and put another coat on - hopefully it'll be ok.  I need to totally sand away the smokey areas though, I'm not leaving it like that.
It's quite demoralising, really.  After all this work, this blo.ody boat is fighting me all the way.  I know I can't expect to get this thing to a professional finish - I'm not a professional for one thing - I have no workshop, just a corner of a tiny lounge I can use when no-one's in, I have to paint outside getting attacked by ants and dust, cut things with a big whopping leatherman due to having no proper tools, etc etc.  And all the time I'm reminded how little I actually know about boats!! ;D  This is only my 3rd model, and although I knew I was possibly biting off more than I could chew with it and I didn't particularly want an 'easy build', I've found this thing damned frustrating at times!
I'm having a little break in a few days - going away with my family, I'll see a good friend from Germany too, and relax away from work.  I'm going to try and put this beast out of my mind and hopefully I'll come back to it in a couple of weeks with more enthusiasm for it.
Meanwhile - any and all advice about the resin problem will be very gratefully accepted! ;)
Thanks everyone,
Julian.
.
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kayem

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #94 on: August 02, 2006, 03:25:12 PM »

Meanwhile - any and all advice about the resin problem will be very gratefully accepted! ;)
Thanks everyone,
Julian.


Bad luck indeed. Best way I've found of removing all traces of a disaster like that, is by scraping with an old fashioned razor blade, the heavy duty ones sold for small planes and balsa strippers are best, and Westbourne sell them, doubtless other model shops too. Hold the blade at an angle of about 60 degrees to the surface and scrape towards you, only trying to remove a thin shaving at a time, and the epoxy must be fully cured. Make some kind of holder if the blade is double edged, otherwise you'll spoil the model by bleeding all over it.You can get a pretty good finish like this with practice, but whatever you do, don't go through to the wood. Then you can finish lightly with 600 wet & dry. After that, try applying a second coat of epoxy, and better luck next time. I don't like to wet & dry too much on a model at this stage of completion, some water always seems to get inside the model somewhere to find and swell exposed wood. Let us know how you get on.
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2006, 08:30:34 AM »

Orby,

I'm no expert, particularly with resin, but the results could be due to it curing too fast and thus not having time to let surface tension do its thing. Is there any way you can slow it down? Don't know about the clouding though :(

Cheers

Doug
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2006, 07:33:15 PM »

Hi Doug,
You may be right, the mottling may be due to it curing too fast.  I know when I put resin on the inside it took ages to cure, but the 1st batch I made to put on the outside the other night went hard in about 10 minutes - way too fast.  I did however follow the mixing instructions perfectly - 1 part hardener to 3 parts resin.  The next batch I did took longer as I made it runnier - about 4 parts resin.
After I get it all off and start again with it, I'll do it nice and runny, and hope for the best!!! ;D   Wish me luck!

Thanks for the advice,
Julian.
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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2006, 01:00:28 PM »

.
Hiya.
Well I've been away and had my rest. I kept thinking about my boat however, so I didn't really get a break from that!  I took it up to show my dad the other day, and he recommended a particularly unusual method of 'repair'.  Apparently when he was building anything in the past and needed to scrape something away when he had no plane or similar bladed impliment to hand, he often used a - wait for it - piece of broken glass!!!!!!!!! ;D  I had to laugh.  It's typical of my dad, that is.
Anyway, while I was in the other room, he sneaked out to get some from the greenhouse (everyone has supplies of broken glass, don't they? ;D) and set to my boat!!!!  Imagine my surprise when I saw that it was actually working.  He had a good scrape, and I had a little go, until we got done by my stepmum for getting epoxy scrapings all over the carpet.
Anyway, he gave me a few spare shards of glass (from his collection) and I've sat out on the balcony this morning getting stuck into it.  I've tried to get down to just the thinnest of layers of epoxy, so I can sand the rest away. In places it's gone through the paint, but that's ok as I intend to repaint the red stripe on top of the resin like the fella in the MMI magazine.
There was nothing for it but to be rough - sanding this epoxy away would have taken days.  Hopefully now I can just sand a while until I'm back to wood, then start again.

Judging by how careful I've been trying to build this thing, the boat now looks an absolute mess, like someone's gone at it with - well - a shard of broken glass or something.




The following picture may shock some viewers....



As yet I obviously have no idea whether or not I've done the right thing.  As usual, time will tell.  Is there an award or something for people who have no idea what they're doing but blindly carry on anyway??? ;D

Julian.

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wombat

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2006, 02:14:35 PM »

Yes, there is Julian, but it has got my name on it for the foreseeable future!  :P

Tim the Wombat
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orby1

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Re: Billings Slo Mo Shun build-up.
« Reply #99 on: August 16, 2006, 02:17:23 PM »

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Maybe we can share it, Wombat!



Moving along now.  Still a bloody great mess though!







I think I MAY have rescued this thing.  Half the front is already done, and it looks good (considering).  ;D



I can forget about getting all the red off, as I'll repaint it after I've done the resin again anyway - all I have to do is get the wood back to bare clean wood again, and I should be ok. I'll crack on today and try and get it stained, then I'll have a go at the epoxy resin again ASAP.  I want to try and do it quickly so nothing has time to go wrong again!  Ever the optomist....


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