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[w3bby]

What do you guys think about the introduction of a new motor class to the Naviga structure. In all sections V, O and H, a 26cc petrol class.
Would the introduction of this class make you more likely to try your hand at racing (in any section)? After all, 26cc motors are relatively cheap (even when modified), reliable and economical to run.
Do you believe that it would help attract more people to the competitive side of the hobby?

[omra85]

Hi Ian
If you look at the OMRA website championship tables and results, you'll see that we have a very active number of racers using the 26cc engines.  They compete hard and well - so how many of them have ever represented England in any NAVIGA competition?
NONE!
That's because NAVIGA only recognise ONE national body and in the UK that happens to be the MPBA.  So where are the teams selected from for W/C's - the "club" of a couple of dozen MPBA competitors, that's where!
For "FSR-O" read "flat water circuit racers". 
It doesn't particularly matter to me - as I have been told that I wouldn't be good enough anyway (which MAY be true - but I dont need some arrogant b*****d to tell me) - but I feel very bitter that the ones that do the most racing in the UK are barred from entry (unless they join the "right" organisation) to NAVIGA competitions!
NAVIGA can stick their 26cc class until they lose the "old boys club" attitude and truly represent international competitors.

Don't suppose its anything to do with CMB just getting round to producing a 26 sparky - nah, course not!

Disgusted of Rugby

[w3bby]

Don't suppose its anything to do with CMB just getting round to producing a 26 sparky - nah, course not!

Disgusted of Rugby

Sorry you are disgusted Danny :( and no, nothing to do with newly released CMB 26 as far as I am aware.......

I check out the OMRA site from time to time and have seen the 26cc boats there.

I do not wish to get into the politics of Naviga, MPBA or OMRA but there are solutions to everything.The clubs and people that race under Naviga have the right to represent their country at the Naviga championships. You appear to have a contempt for the racing style and if that attitude is prevalent amongst OMRA members why should they care that they cannot represent the UK? Should people wish Naviga to recognise more than one national organisation shouldn't this be taken up with the British Naviga representative and forwarded to Naviga?

As an aside, in Sweden and Norway we run a standard zenoah class (one of the larger classes) that is not Naviga but run under our local organisations. In Sweden our O guys run mainly on larger lakes and they often cannot be described as flat water circuits..... Also within the Swedish system they allow motors up to 50cc and not being keen on the oval course they run the M course clockwise for most of the competitions.

Maybe it's time to swallow the bitter pill and work for a solution in the UK, after all it's only toy boats at the end of the day. I realise that what I am hearing here is probably not fixable overnight and that there is a longer story behind your remarks.

[omra85]

Ah Ian - a solution overnight is an understatement - try over years!
The NAVIGA 'O' classes have only recently changed to 8 and 12 minute races, previously they were 6 or 7 laps which means the boats have to be built and set up completely differently to a 'half hour' boat.  That is not the point though. If the MPBA does not want OMRA to "compete" - all they have to do is sit back - NAVIGA will do the rest ie only accept the organisation currently 'in power'.
To represent GB in the class that I love, I would have to join the MPBA, race at 2 circuit meetings, and then apply to the MPBA NAVIGA rep which may then involve an elimination contest.  The irony is that I wouldn't mind doing that if OMRA members weren't considered 'outsiders' (which of course the MPBA will vehemently deny - whilst doing nothing to invite potential FSRV-O entrants to apply). Why should they - the GB team use the 'O' class as driving practice - look at the last results!
Until the 'usual gang' start questioning their policies, I'd rather not bother.  I'd hardly be welcomed with open arms 

Have you forgotten all the complaints about the "rough" water in Hamminkeln??

Danny

[w3bby]

So we have an answer from an OMRA guy who won't consider being a member of the Naviga affiliate in the UK, doesn't like the racing form but feels that he should still be invited to represent the UK at the Naviga Championships ::) Danny maybe there needs to be an international organisation for OMRA style racing, want to form one?
How about the rest of you? Is no one competing or playboating in Hydro or V here?

[omra85]

So we have an answer from an OMRA guy who won't consider being a member of the Naviga affiliate in the UK

Sorry Ian, I would have let this lie, as we have already had a similar conversation last year, but you really have the wrong idea about the UK set-up and I would hate others reading this forum to have the same impression.

I have not said that I would NEVER join the MPBA but I really don't see why I should have to -

OMRA has the same level of insurance as the MPBA
OMRA has more competitions than the MPBA
OMRA has more racing members than the MPBA
OMRA has a National Championship for each class
OMRA has a more regular newsletter
OMRA has a more up to date website (even before I took it over)
OMRA membership is cheaper than the MPBA

All of these points are relating to offshore/FSR-O/circuit type races and NOT FSR-V which in the UK operates as a different and very specific MPBA section (which appears to contribute to the problem).

So the current 160 OMRA members should just shut up and let the "professionals" of the MPBA get on with it?  That's what they have had to do for years. NAVIGA (as far as I am aware) do not even know the existence of the OMRA group.  Do you believe that we should feel truly represented?
That's like saying that if you want to vote in UK elections, you have to join the Labour party but if you want to vote Conservative or join the Conservative party, not only will you not be allowed to vote, but the Labour politicians in power will not acknowledge your existence or represent you.
Who is NAVIGA run by - Robert Mugabe?

No - I won't be setting up an international association for offshore racing as I devote what little extra time I have to helping the ones who help me ie OMRA and this forum.  I would be happy if we (OMRA) were even allowed to compete in NAVIGA events.  Would it be SO difficult for NAVIGA to recognise that we exist or for the MPBA to have OMRA as a seperate section as they did with Electra!

Sorry if this conflicts with your idea of cosy international competition but maybe democracy is different in Sweden?
Danny

 

[DickyD]

Will you two calm down, we were all mates on here a while back so can we let it drop please.

Good god I sound like one of the forum      ::)

[w3bby]

Will you two calm down, we were all mates on here a while back so can we let it drop please.

So my last remark was a bit flippant however I thought it summarised Danny's post quite succinctly ::) The thread was/is about a Naviga class, not MPBA/OMRA politics and, seemingly, an inability to get on.
Sure, I may not be fully aware of the situation in the UK but to take part in one organisation's championship you have to be in the organisation, same with FIA, IAAF, IFMAR, ROAR etc.

..........NAVIGA (as far as I am aware) do not even know the existence of the OMRA group.........

Easy to fix, contact them..... but they, as you say, recognise only one federation per country....http://www.naviga.org/

........... or for the MPBA to have OMRA as a separate section as they did with Electra!

As a section of MPBA, why not? Only approaching the MPBA can give you an answer. From an earlier post..

I realise that what I am hearing here is probably not fixable overnight and that there is a longer story behind your remarks.

Sorry if this conflicts with your idea of cosy international competition but maybe democracy is different in Sweden?

No ideas of cosy competition here Danny, I opened the thread to get a reaction on a new engine class for Naviga. That it has spilled over to MPBA/OMRA politics is a shame and detracts from the original question which still stands.....

Oh yes, democracy is different here, proportional representation and not first past the post, still a load of bull 

[omra85]

Hi Ian
Sorry to have "gone off on one" and hijacked your thread.  It did have some relevence though as OMRA are seeing a big influx of 26cc engines.
I've just had a look at "another" forum   on which this point was/is discussed and I feel that splitting sparkies into 2 classes would cause additional pressure on an already full race timetable.
We (OMRA) only have a couple using the 35 or 40cc engines so there is not much difference between the 2 sizes at present.  If they were split I could forsee a decline in the 35cc size, some of which are horrendously expensive, which in turn would lead to less large engines available, then less racers, then ....
Another alternative would be to reduce the upper limit to, say, 28cc which would probably give an initial boost to the class as there are many good engine choices available in that size at reasonable cost.  Obviously this would not go down well with people who had just bought a big engine but if it were 'phased in' it might be possible.
Given that the 'incidental' costs of going to NAVIGA meetings is high anyway (travel, accommodation, 'entertainment'  )  I don't suppose the cost of the engines is a primary factor but as the boats would also be used in local or national events, then engine costs do become an issue.
I would like to see if the difference in costs between the 'new' 26cc engines and the 35cc ones begins to reduce.  The class may sort itself out as racers decide which camp they want to fall into - the heavy powerful, or the lighter smaller.
Regards and apologies,
Danny

[ids987]

I just had a look at the pricing for the 26cc CMB. They tip the scales at £530 or £575 (prices courtesy of UK main dealer's website) - depending whether or not you want a pull-start.
Mind you, it is significantly less than half the price of a CMB 35cc (now £1,290), and even the pull-start version is still (marginally) less than 5 bog standard Zenoahs with pull-start.
I think if we rely on CMB to narrow the gap between the 26cc and 35cc, they will only do it by increasing the price of the 26ccs. But presumably they will have to maintain a respectable price gap to justify the extra for the Zimmerman disk valve etc on the 35cc. Mind you, I think I heard that they were going to produce (or maybe were just thinking about producing) a 26cc with a Zim disk. Presumably that would come in at something approaching the price of the 35cc......

[omra85]

The RCM  RX engine looks a nice piece of kit (for a petrol  ::) )
rear induction, front exhaust, tuned, with header and mount for £417 - plus, standard Zenoah parts fit it.
http://www.rcmuk.net/
I don't know how CMB are going to better it with the side exhaust one they've brought out, and if it has the same reliability as the 35 ....   ::)  of course that may have been down to the owner 
Danny