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Author Topic: Health gone mad...part 2  (Read 3363 times)

das boot

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Health gone mad...part 2
« on: September 17, 2008, 12:54:38 pm »

I’ve just bought a new tube of ready mixed filler from the good old US of A called Green Putty, and whilst perusing the written instructions and safety warnings on the back of the tube, I read this little lot…

Apart from the usual warnings of using with adequate ventilation, not smoking whilst using and keeping naked flames well away, it states that the user should “extinguish all flames, keep well away from pilot lights and heaters, to turn off all gas and electrically operated fires and stoves, any electric tools and any other sources of ignition”.

It also reminds the user to avoid breathing the fumes, avoid contact with skin and eyes, and wash thoroughly after using the product.

Then there’s the scary bit…
“Toluene may be harmful by breathing vapours.
Toluene exposure may cause liver, kidney, and brain damage.
Toluene exposure may produce birth defects in a developing foetus.
This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.”

And they sell this stuff??? Ye Gods…


And yesterday, I bought a new cheap throw away cigarette lighter. It stated on a sticker on the side “caution, flame may be hot”….


I give up...

Rich
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andrewh

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 01:06:17 pm »

I'm sure that all Hitchhiker readers will remember that Wonko the Sane realised that the world was totally mad when he bought a box of toothpicks and found there were instructions and health warnings on it!

I find that products labelled for US markets carry exceptionally scary warnings about substances that are considered (in the rest of the world) as acceptable if carefully handled, but often completely fail to reveal what the thing you have bought IS.

For work we need to know in able to be able to supply safe and suitable stuff to the US forces, but often cannot use US sourced materials cos they won't reveal even what the basic material is!

I have worked in a factory where we used a vat of toluene holding perhaps 50 gallons to remove rubber from bonded components - I should probably say goodbye now ;D
andrew
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RipSlider

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2008, 01:09:03 pm »

I knew, while at university, a reprobate called Chris who went to his lab in a very inbreated manner, got into an argument with a spanish girl called Anna - who to be fair was a little annoying and very crazy - and somehow managed to squirt about a good dose of tolurene directly into her eyes via a vast syringe.

rather alarmingly her eyeball turned a rather horrible red colour and swelled dramatically causing her intense pain and the production of a large amount of swearing in spanish. A rush to the hospital, a trip to the operating table and much prodding and poking from doctors was the end result. Luckily she got her sight back fully in the end, but it was touch and go for a while, as they had to stick needles in said eyeball to suck out fluid to remove pressure.


So - tolurene is *definately* not much fun, and humans generally don't do too well at mixing with it.

I seem to remember it's fine on skin, as it can' get through, but you don't want it touching cuts, getting in your mouth etc.


Steve
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toesupwa

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2008, 04:22:52 pm »


"This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.”

And they sell this stuff??? Ye Gods…


And the really scary part....  :o

If you go in to a gun shop over in the USA to buy some LEAD BULLETS for your gun, you get the same warning on the box!!!..   ???
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toesupwa

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2008, 04:25:24 pm »


And the really scary part....  :o


And the really scary part, part II...

In the 'manual' (Laughable) that comes with a new car it has the gem...

"Do not drink the battery acid".

This means, that at come stage, someone HAS!...  :-\
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sheerline

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2008, 04:56:29 pm »

Toluene is carcenogenic and is quite nasty, one definately shouldn't breathe the fumes nor get it on you or in you. I don't know a lot about the chemistry of the stuff but I suspect the thing about naked flames is two fold: one- it is highly imflammable and the vapours can ignite if sufficient build up takes place and two: I suspect the fumes given off when passed through a naked flame are converted into another nasty gas or chemical which is even more toxic! I know in the US they are a bit more than just paranoid about poisoning or killing the punters but in this case they may be justified in sticking these labels on. We worked with this liquid in the aircraft industry and 'those in the know' were always browbeating us to use it with great care and never to breath it.
I am not sure I am correct in saying this but I believe petrol contains a small percentage of toluene.
Any chemists about to put us wise?
 
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2008, 05:13:39 pm »

Hotels can be dangerous in the US
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das boot

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2008, 05:21:52 pm »

Jeesh...I only needed a tiny amount, which I applied with a toothpick, had the windows wide open, had my electric fan going full blast, and tried to hold my breath whilst I applied the filler.  :D
Actually, it's good stuff, dries very quickly and sands down very easily indeed.

Anybody got a full dive suit I can borrow...I have some filling to do along the hull of U-33  :P :D

Rich
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djrobbo

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2008, 07:21:45 pm »

Good old cellulose thinners has xylene and toluene in it . Not sure , but i think there is a smidgen in petrol  .   The best bit about petrol is the unleaded debarkle .

    Step one .....remove lead from petrol , that may or may not cause a small amount of brain damage in large doses , when breathed in.
    Step two......replace lead with a substance that is a known carconogen , so now every body is at risk >>:-(

          plus my classic zephyr ate the valves :'(


                                 regards.....bob
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sheerline

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2008, 08:17:24 pm »

A tad off topic this so I hope you will excuse me whilst I butt in with a question.
DJR, how many miles and what style of driving to eat your valve seats? My old girl still has its iron head and ground in seats so I am wondering how long the seats will last before they begin to recess. I don't rev this old thing and don't do long sustained hard drives, also, I'm sticking Wynns lead replacement petrol treatment fluid and some upper cylinder lubricant in with every tankful so in your experience, do you think it will make any difference to valve seat life?
Cheers.... Chris
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 04:11:33 am »




This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.”

...

Rich

Good thing you don't live in California... ???
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RickF

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 09:35:17 am »

Health and Safety Executive - May Contain Nuts!

Rick
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das boot

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2008, 10:46:14 am »

Health and Safety Executive - May Contain Nuts!

Rick

I'll drink to that!!!

Rich
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Roger in France

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2008, 06:13:01 pm »

When I worked in Trading Standards we were responsible for enforcing some safety Regulations. Some were ridiculous and we did not put any effort into applying them.

I also met some of the HSE folk and (as you say Rick) some of them were nuts. They really did think that the State should protect fools from themselves!

I observe a significantly different ethos here in France. It seems that the French Govt. believes that most residents have a modicum of sense and that they must look after themselves in those areas where they can.

However, many safety warnings and (so called) "information" which you see on products is not there because the law requires it but because over zealous lawyers advise their employers to apply such labelling. This ensures the said lawyers are kept in work!!!!!!

In fact, if an accident arises and the product is at fault any Court will assess the likelyhood of responsibility by the product seller and manufacturer despite the warnings. So, many warnings only serve to frighten off claimants in the first instance. A good example of this is "May contain nuts". Courts have ruled that if the producer does not ascertain the presence or otherwise of nuts and a consumer goes into aniphalactic shock as a result of ingesting traces of nuts then that silly warning offers no protection.

Roger in France.

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mikeyh

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2008, 07:15:19 pm »

Indeed Roger, the 'I'll sue you' philosophy hasnt reached france (yet) One of the few countries that doesnt even have a Health & Safety Department!!

mikey (cosy in the Dordogne)
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ronkh

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2008, 07:44:12 pm »

Where I work, we have an inspection once a month and the occasional "snap check". Any oil has to have a label on it, stating what sort of oil. When I was asked what was in my clear bottle, I replied "Wet brown oil, what else"? Slap on the wrist.
Water bottles, even with a well known brand name on the label, have to have a sticker printed "Water".
No aerosols are allowed anywhere except in proper cabinets, made out of metal. The same cabinets we use for tools are not guaranteed Fire-proof but made from the same manufacturers, to the same spec.!!
Our machines are risk assessed for safety locks, (they are CNC lathes-mills-grinders etc), dirt, (health hazard) guards working etc etc.
The guys who work in the pit-lane face cars doing 80kph when doing a pit stop, petrol fumes and splashes, brake-dust etc. These same people are not allowed to go to the backyard of the building, where the lorries are (massive big Mercedes things - cant remember tonnage) in case they do not notice them doing 10mph and then only allowed out when wearing yellow jackets and after telling their line-manager when they go out. This is now the busiest time of the year with fly-aways and, understandably, they are not overly happy about it but have to comply or risk the boot after a couple of warnings.
The dobbers who cut the carbon-fibre will be expected to use plastic knives instead of the scalpels modelers use, because it's a serious health hazard. (I have not made that up - the elf & safety Nazis' are looking into getting said plastic knives if they can get them made). You try cutting carbon. Bl##dy hard.
The list goes on but I think you get how it is in this cutting-edge place. (If I can use the expression "cutting edge")!!
Next we will have to take our boot laces of in case it all gets to much for us!!!! Cant jump in front of the car to end it - rubber bumpers.

Ron.
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djrobbo

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2008, 08:26:29 pm »

Hi chris.....sorry for the delay in answering.......i used the zephyr quite a lot really  , the engine was running beautifully so didn't really do much to it , so it had quite a few miles on it .  I did use additive which was recomended to me by a friend , turned out to be not too good at doing what it said on the bottle . :'(

       About a year , before i had to have the head machined , apparently the valve seats in the old ford straight six engine are fairly soft.

          If you don't do too many miles and put a good addative in the tank , you should be o.k

                 regards....bob.
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das boot

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2008, 09:19:16 pm »

Whip that old straight 6 out of it and drop in a nice blown Chevy V8...you know it makes sense!  O0

Rich
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catengineman

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2008, 09:38:31 pm »

And reduce the value of the car !

  :(
Whip that old straight 6 out of it and drop in a nice blown Chevy V8...you know it makes sense!  O0

R,
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das boot

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2008, 09:46:48 pm »

And reduce the value of the car !

  :(
Whip that old straight 6 out of it and drop in a nice blown Chevy V8...you know it makes sense!  O0

R,

You sound just like my workmate...he's a classic car enthusiast, and we have endless discussions about this. He sees a Ford sit up and beg Pop...I see a street rod. He sees a MG Magnette (we pass one every day in a driveway) as a beautiful car as it is...I see it dropped, tubbed and running a blown small block Chevy and a set of Cragar slot mags.

Our discussions do tend to get somewhat heated to say the least! I call him an old fart...he calls me a bl**dy Philistine!!


Rich
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catengineman

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 10:12:33 pm »

I know where he comes from  O0

been there did that then watched as the same model as I had went for three times the money it cost
I had spent best part of £5000 on engine, gearbox, suspension seats a stupid steering wheel Oh and dropping the hight of the roof? inc getting the front and rear screens to fit.

Oh and it was (rude word) rubbish at cornering due to the camber/track/toe angles not being what they should have been and the wheels and tyres changing the geometry some what. (still fun while it lasted)

Fords never die they just go faster!

Pop anglia  original side valve 3 speed in grey  :'(  = V 8 rover savage, borgwarner box, jag rear end metal flake paint job steering wheel made of welded chain links etc etc.

when was this ? mid to lateish 70's

car was uncles spare which he sold to me while he kept the other, his son sold the car about seven year ago still in its original condition with the original log book and the full service history. ( which I was given at the time when I bought the car from the uncle  :'( )

R,
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das boot

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2008, 06:32:55 am »

I can imagine said workmate in his cloth cap, white silk scarf and flying helmet, driving his E type (he retires in a couple of months and is selling his Jeep and buying himself a fully restored E type Jag)
If I mentioned chopping his E type about, then my health and safety would be in serious danger!

Rich


 

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sheerline

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2008, 10:22:05 am »

It's quite refreshing (and slightly worrying) that in this mad elf 'n' safety society we are still allowed to muck around with a cars original spec. Custom cars and kit builds can be a thing of great engineering skill and craftsmanship but given the present day thinking on safety and control of the masses, it's a wonder to me thay 'they' haven't jumped up and down all over this yet. The Germans are'nt even allowed to fit as much as a foglight without reams of paperwork and a new m.o.t and I believe they travel to the UK to actually buy ready built and road legal kit cars which they are allowed to take home and use.

DJR: thanks for the info, I shall be keeping an eye on things and fingers crossed, I wont have to pull that head off for a long time as it's a rotten job having to work over the wings and sweating blood that something might damage them. Removing them is definately NOT an option!

I have always liked the idea of restoring cars to their original spec and I have tried very hard to stick to this with the old Austin. I am not a purist in the stricktest sense so there are little things  which have been neccessary to make the car usable on modern roads, like indicators for example, the old semaphore arms don't get seen by the average motorist.
I bet this old car would look really impressive if it were chopped, lowered and fitted with chromed wide wheels but the very thought makes me pale in horror, but then each man to his own eh! I can't help think the same thing every time I see a really nice old classic chopped around...." another car destroyed" but then thats just me and we are all different. It would be a boring world if we were'nt.
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catengineman

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2008, 04:03:57 pm »

Dont know about now but then I had to get two independent engineers assessments (appointed by ministry of transport ?) though I think it was independent from ME  {-)
then had to pass an MOT then the insurance would only insure for a limited milage (had to submit milage on clock and then every year to see if your milage was under their limit)

Got stopped more times than had hot dinners but never got fine or summons, used to carry ALL the docks with me all the time I was driving. I think the coppers just wanted a look under the hood etc, they sat in it a few times.

know where there is a Triumph Mayflower but the owner wont sell YET! even though there are trees through the spokes in the wheels.

R,
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sheerline

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Re: Health gone mad...part 2
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2008, 04:16:44 pm »

Cat, there was a Mayflower, complete and in running original order layed up in Lindgreats workshop in Great Yarmouth. The chap had loads of spares with it and the car was intact. Lindgreat (bottled gas distributors) has now moved and I don't know if they now have it in the new place or not. They used to be on Harfreys Industrial Estate.
It was the most awful vehicle and if someone chopped one of those about it would certainly improve it. My friend said an aquaintance of his ran into a brick wall with his Mayflowerand did around £100-00 of improvements to it!
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