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Author Topic: Financial Meltdown  (Read 9334 times)

FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2008, 11:06:59 AM »

Sorry - I've come late to this thread and thought it might have something to do with the current financial meltdown (the title being supposedly an indication). Instead it's descended into the usual stuff about public vs private sector pay and pensions, The Daily Wail, Council Tax etc etc ad flaming nauseam.

The current crisis was created by greedy folk lending other people's money to those who couldn't afford to repay it - simply so that they could obtain huge cash bungs for themselves. The dear Colonials may have invented these scams and perfected them, but a sweet little bunch of OK Henries in Canary Wharf soon realised what a gravy train it was so they joined in the fun.

Now the wheels have come off, they've gone bleating to the Government (i.e. you and me...) to help them out. Needless to say, HMG has obliged - largely for its own political survival -  but not before the bottom-feeders have talked down share prices 40% in the meantime. Has anyone seen the sharp rise in the FTSE this morning, just after the fat cats had got their bail-out underwritten? Nice one, eh? They can now buy back at rock-bottom prices all the shares which they had previously talked down, and flog them once the price gets back to somewhere sensible............. KerCHING!

We never learn, do we?

BTW my Civil Service pension is MY money, not anyone else's. It's not some unearned, ex-gratis bung; it's MY salary which I didn't draw while I was working. Can you really imagine any  government giving its own petty minions something for nothing? I decided when I started work that I would forgo a big salary for the benefits which would accrue later in life - a conscious choice on my part, not a privilege granted to some otherwise-undefinable social group. I don't recall seeing any application form which had any undue restrictions, so I assume the choice to work in the public sector was open to anyone with the relevant educational qualifications. To put it bluntly (Bluntly? Me??), you made your bed and I made mine, so live with it.

As for the Mail, I shudder when I think of the Editor of that lamentable rag, who decries all public sector workers a reasonable level of pay and pension and castigates minority groups for most of society's ills while he pulls in over 1.2M a year. If you choose to buy it and read it then you're paying him handsomely to feed your prejudices, and I feel sorry for you. IMHO the only thing missing from the Mail is a perforation every six inches and a hole in the top corner for the string.........

Off to make some more stuff for the Blackpool show. See you there?

FLJ
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2008, 11:53:42 AM »

Oh FLJ, I DO love you.... :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
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Peterm

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2008, 02:17:35 PM »

FLJ, I am with you all the way.   I did 24 years in the Armed Forces and 25 years as a sort of Civil Servant.   My pensions are not enormous, but at least I earned them and saved for them.   Pete M
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polaris

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #78 on: October 14, 2008, 11:37:42 AM »


Dear FLJ,

It's not quite as 'cut-&-dried' as that. There was indeed over lending, but there was also excessive borrowing - beyond means. We have all had that stuff through the letterbox... instant 25k, just phone and get it... take a 50k loan to do this and that, easy set up, no problem. The Treasury and the Govt. should have seen this meltdown coming... it was inevitable: this begs the question of whether to get rid of Brown because he allowed it to happen (let the good times roll), or, give him a medal for going a long way in sorting the mess out! ::)!

In between numerous bank's execs. greed and avarice and the people who over borrowed &/or bought property on a mkt. high (or rising mkt), there come the traders (the term bottom feeders is apt), and this bunch are just as responsible (if not moreso in some ways), in taking a major roll in making the situation very much worse. Then comes the Treasury and Govt., who failed to see and heed the warning signs and protect themselves - and more importantly us! Then come the greedy who seek as high an interest rate as possible, seemingly ignoring the fact that high interest means more risk - into this bracket fit's the councils and other local Govt. bodies (who should never have behaved like 'investors' moving money into overseas tax havens) - worse still when there is higher interest involved in off-shore banking. Switzerland is 3% and has been for years, but they are a very shrewd bunch over there and they seemingly take more care on what they do with peoples money - hence why the interest is less).

So, placing the blame is not quite as simple as it initially seems, but the major cause is most likely lack of regulation in banking and gnrl. financial mkts... something that will happen in GB, and now almost certainly world wide. A very good thing too.

Regards, Bernard
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cbr900

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2008, 01:11:02 PM »

On our news tonight they stated that Browny paid out to stop the rot then sacked all the bank managers
is that true, if seems he has at least started to tidy up a bit...........


Roy
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polaris

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2008, 02:15:31 PM »


Dear Roy,

The Chairmen and Chief Execs. of RBS and HBOS have indeed gone. Don't forget the Treasury and Govt. are partly to blame for the mess, so Brown can't be too sweeping - there wouldn't be many people left all round otherwise!!! - including an Ex Prime Minister! O0!!!

Regards, Bernard
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tigertiger

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2008, 03:43:26 PM »

For all those who believed in a free market economy, and decried regulation as being 'the Nanny State'.

The present situation we are in is because of a lack of regulation, and also as a result of poor risk management.

The biggest case for regualtion IMHO is the 'legal' practice of short selling. The FSA has put a temporary ban on it, it should be made illegal.
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Roger in France

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2008, 04:36:53 PM »

Within a capitalistic "free market" there will always be winners and losers. Unfortunately it was always the the same "winners" until now. As some of them have felt the pinch (a serious pinch) for the first time they have squealed hard. In the past "the winners" won big or reasonably well. If you are poor then even a small change hurts disproportionately.

However, even now "the winners" will benefit from the clever contracts they negotiated and go out with significant benefits. And who allowed such clever contracts and obscene rewards? The middle men who hitched their futures to the overpaid stars.

When I helped enforce the Consumer Credit Act I was sickened by some of the practices I observed and more still by the attitudes of many of the fat cats. I often asked the question, "OK so your so good but maybe you could have done better still if you had tried harder. But who holds you to account?"

I beleived strongly in the power of Credit Unions to empower the poor but the major banks and financial institutions did all they could to dismiss them as being of no consequence. Similarly, sucessive Governments have damned them with faint praise.

Plese remember that local govt. must invest the short term funds they hold to the best advantage, the law demands that and Central Govt. requires it and regulates where they may invest and even recommends with whom.

I have yet to meet a principled banker and would gladly see all the directors and senior managers of the clearing banks shot!

Roger in France.
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Shipmate60

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2008, 06:07:00 PM »

Roger,

I have yet to meet a principled banker and would gladly see all the directors and senior managers of the clearing banks shot!

But lots of taxpayers would!!!!

Bob
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2008, 08:00:50 PM »

Tiger, there is legal and there is legitimate, and there is a reason for there being two different words.
The problems have been building since the early eighties with the advent of the yuppies.  These were the people who were happy to receive a good education in one of the socially useful professions before diving off to the gravy train having stopped someone potentially useful getting their qualification.  Any attempt at action would have been shouted down by those who perceived that their interests were best served by a fat cat society and had the means at their disposal to shout louder than anybody else.  Dwight D Eisenhower once said that communism would die of its own rottenness, it was not apparent at the time but this was also true of some brands of capitalism.
Shipmate - bullets are expensive.  Ropes can be re-used.
Anyway, some imponderables.
MPs insist on prefixing their names with "Honourable".  This is probably to fool us and remind them.
Judges title themselves "Justice".  They are rarely allowed to dispense this, usually its law.
That feels better.
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2008, 11:24:50 PM »

Gentlemen

I haven't read a single thing that's been posted since my little rant with which I would disagree by one iota. I just despair when a bunch of elderly model boat enthusiasts seem to have more fingers on the pulse than a whole wunch of bankers (if that's the correct collective noun). So where exactly were  the FSA?? I think we should be told.

If a bloke in a hoodie puts an 8 bottle of hootch into his pocket in his local supermarket, that's theft. If a chap in an Armani suit puts 10M of someone else's dosh into an offshore bank account then that's an administrative oversight. "It's the same the whole world over........." etc etc (to the sound of a scratchy violin).

Been there; checked the books; read the caution; been to court; watched the b******s walk away. Nothing changes.

Build model boats and keep your head down - the rest is propaganda.

FLJ
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2008, 10:17:29 AM »

I believe there is a move to rename the FSA SFA....
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #87 on: October 16, 2008, 01:45:41 PM »

Amusing to see today that the Audit Commission had 10m invested in Icelandic Banks.  ::)
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polaris

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #88 on: October 16, 2008, 04:09:11 PM »


Dear All,

This 'thing' with Icelandic banks is amazing isn't it. How come all the local and central Govt. have had such an interest there? Ok, I know the interest rate has a lot to do with it, but somehow I can't help feeling there is something else........

Isle of Man, Jersey, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Bahamas, and all the other places... but it has to be Iceland! They weren't/aren't the only ones offering higher than normal rates, and, as we all know, when investing there is always the choice of investment routes... higher interest/higher risk, lower interest, lower risk. What right have all these public bodies to gamble on the markets with our money??? Ok, I have a 'thing'/gripe about this, and I am certain that most if not all of us do... it just makes me a bit angry that's all! >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know where I would like to see some of these people go.......... :police: <*<!!!

Regards, Bernard
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Colin H

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #89 on: October 16, 2008, 05:16:33 PM »

In our local rag today it was revealed that Nottm City Council was still investing in Iceland afetr they had been advised not to.


Colin H.
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polaris

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #90 on: October 16, 2008, 05:56:11 PM »


Dear Colin,

Well then, it's time to get people to petition for the resignation of the Chief Exec., Finance Exec., and any others within this council that had any involvement with such totally irresponsible action with tax payers funds. Simple as that... it's your right and YOUR money they have squandered. This is negligence.

Regards, Bernard
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Bartapuss

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Re: Financial Meltdown
« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2008, 11:12:56 PM »

It least in 1929 some of the bankers threw themselves out the nearest tall building window, were not exactly hearing the thuds of merchant bankers and hedge fund managers hitting the pavement now, are we, more like them laughing in our faces as they receive multi million pound payoffs and retire to the sun somewhere.
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