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Author Topic: What Transmitter?  (Read 15919 times)

stobby256

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What Transmitter?
« on: September 30, 2008, 12:29:39 pm »

Hi All,

What's the poular Transmitters that you guys use? I've got a FF7 and FF6 that I use for aircraft, but alas they are 35MHz. I have an OLD HiTec 40MHz FM also, but I'm looking for something a bit better, i.e. 4 channel 40MHz or even 2.4GHz bt Im not sure if the wallet will stretch that far!!! >>:-(

Also, The Aircraft Tx's have the throttle stick that goes from top to bottom, and the 40MHz one has one centred by a spring so I can use reverse if I have to.

What do you all use???  :o
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 12:43:56 pm »

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portside II

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 12:51:28 pm »

Hi stobby , thats on of the q's i have wheather to go for a 2gig set maybe some of the lads will be able to answer all of our questions.
as for your hitecand the sticks , i have an eclipse7 and had the spring removed and the ratchet fitted on the throttle (left stick) to match the other side , i didnt do it but it looked easy .
My question regarding 2gig sets is which one is best (6ch) whats a fsst thingy with the futaba sets ,how come some recivers are two piece , whats the battery life on the tx , can you get replacement batterys ( i bought one from vapex for my hitec) and will hitec be bringing out a 2gig radio .
lots of questions  hope i have not hijacked your thread  :angel: .
daz
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andyn

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 02:23:17 pm »

Is the FF7 not modular?

If so you could get a 2.4 gig module for it.

Dont get a spektrum for an IC boat, the recievers wont go in properly ( watch the debate start)
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wideawake

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 02:37:34 pm »

Hi Portside

The answers to most of your technical questions are in either my DX6 review or the other article on R/C developments in recent editions of MB.   In short FASST and DSM are two different ways of achieving the freedom from interference characteristic of 2.4GHz equipment.  FASST uses "frequency hopping" and DSM uses "spread spectrum" and transmits on 2 frequencies at once.

Andyn - what do you mean by "the receivers won't go in properly"?   Do you mean they physically won't fit or that there are electrical problems? 

Cheers

Guy
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wideawake

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 03:22:17 pm »

Apologies for follwing up my own post!   The article on R/C with particular reference to 2.4GHz is on the MB website at

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/mps/uan/158

Cheers

Guy
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Sandy Calder

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 03:55:33 pm »

F 9 1/2 a 2-ch system with ch3 6 way homebrew multiswitch and ch4  lever pot from S.L.M. model engineering.
About a tenth of the cost of its Futaba cousin.
Can be done to many old Futaba and Hitec sets or a pound or two.
The third one started out as a kitchen appliance. Just kidding!
It's used for centrfuging bubbles out lightweight resin castings.



 
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Bill D203

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 03:57:33 pm »

The very best thing i did was spend out 120 for a 2.4GHZ Futaba TX & RX . All my probs that I was having with 40MHz Sanwa stuff went away. The only thing i kick myself for, is i didn't get it earlier this year.
Best of luck.
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andyn

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 04:31:22 pm »

Andyn - what do you mean by "the receivers won't go in properly"?   Do you mean they physically won't fit or that there are electrical problems? 

I mean that DSM2 recievers have a reciever and a sattelite module, which need to be six inches apart and at 90 degrees to each other, which isn't possible in an average radio box. In my cars it isn't a problem because you can stick the sattelite at the other end of the chassis

If however you go for an RX without the second bit, with Spektrum this is despite what they say only a half range receiver, and will probably be useless when you're on the other end of the lake, theres two other boats right next to yours, and the boat is going 40 odd miles an hour.

I second what Bill said, the 6EX2.4 he has sorted all the problems in the Makara.
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wideawake

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 06:08:14 pm »

Hi Andyn

I take your point about fitting things in a radio box.  I don't have that sort of boat so wouldn't have that problem as such (I usea DX6/AR6000 ATM).    Two thoughts, you may find the AR500 receiver of interest.   It's a DSM2 unit but all the electronics is in one box and the second aerial is at the end of a length of thin feeder.   While you may not be able to achieve precisely 6 inch separation my tests on the DX6 with AR6000 receiver found that aerial spacing and position is less critical than is implied in the instructions.

WRT using a DSM rather than DSM2 receiver I don't think Spektrum specify the difference likely in range but simply describe the DSM units as "parkflyer".   I found that I got 200 yards range across water with the DX6/AR6000 and that was with the two aerials twisted together.   That's more than enough for my purposes.  I'm not sure what ranges you need for your boats.    However in spite of all that I believe that both Futaba and Spektrum units have been (rarely) known to lose lock when used in high speed severe spray conditions.   Proximity of other boats shouldn't be significant radio-wise but obviously makes the danger of a loss of control greater.  In my article I express reservations about the use of 2.4GHz gennerally in high speed craft unless a reliable external throttle failsafe is in use.

I'd be very interested in your experiences.   

Cheers

Guy
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Bill D203

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2008, 06:59:18 pm »

Hi Guy
I did have loads of problems using 40MHz Fm RC. The range was very hit and miss. After talking to several OMRA members they had all had radio problems when using 26cc Zen engines. I came to my own conclusion it was causing problems to the receiver because of the HT system. After trying to race at Bryn Bach during the summer my old set up kept on cutting out at the same point on the course.  I went for a Futaba 2.4 set up. The Ariel set up was a piece of cake, they come out of the radio box in two plastic tubes at 90 deg to each other.  I took my boat up to Llanberis in Aug. I had a very large lake to run on. Haven. I had the boat out at 40mph only turning back when it was going out of safe sight range. ( A long way from the TX).  500m + I did not have any problems and nor do any of the OMRA D class chaps. It has to be said that there are times when you can't see the rear of the boat from the spray. Again no problem.
As yet I have not found anything that upsets it unlike my old ( Now very much) Ex 40MHz setup.
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Subculture

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 08:22:24 pm »

If you ever have any intention of owing a model submarine, then give the 2.4GHZ stuff a miss.

Bill D203

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 08:28:08 pm »

My Makara sometimes dose a barrel roll but it don't stay down for long.
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wideawake

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2008, 11:07:24 pm »

If you ever have any intention of owing a model submarine, then give the 2.4GHZ stuff a miss.

......or use 2.4GHz for everything except the sub!   WRT 2.4GHz you're absolutely right.   I couldn't gewt a signal through 12 inches of water with the TX 4 feet away during tests.   Not really surprising given that microwave ovens work!

Guy
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andyn

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 05:55:03 pm »

I couldn't get a signal through 12 inches of water


Well try and keep the boat afloat next time....
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portside II

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 10:32:10 pm »

Guy , having read the review in MB i think i will go for a 2.4g set up ,still not decided which one but i am leaning towards the futaba system.
I did hear that there maybe a 2.4g system from the Hitec stable but cant find anything on the net . Also someone at Blane moor mentioned that there maybe a radio specificly dedicated towards the marine modeler , has anyone any ideas .
Cant say i will be using ,or even trying to use 2.4g on submesible craft , and if my boat sinks then its tough  {-)
daz
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wideawake

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 11:25:20 pm »

I certainly think 2.4GHz is the way to go.   I'm impressed with the Spektrum range of kit but can't comment on the Futaba as I haven't used their TX/RX.  I'm not aware of anything from Hitec but I wouldn't be surprised if they get into the 2.4GHz market soon.   WRT boat orientated units it may be the Spektrum DX5e being talked about.  that is a "full range" outfit but with very limited programmable options compared with the Dx6 or DX6i.  Sold as a TX/RX kit so ideal for fitting in boats already equipped with servos.   DSM2 technology but backwards compatible with earlier DSM RXs.  DX5e also uses 4 x AA cells rather than a dedicated 9.6V battery pack.

WRT submersibles - I agree if it sinks then it's too late to worry!

Cheers

Guy
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garston1

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2008, 01:31:04 am »

I've used a Spektrum DX6 for about 6 months and i would recommend it to anyone. The only niggley thing is the small delay when you switch on. For a few seconds it seems like your radios broke, but obviously it must be the receiver searching or setting itself. Apart from that it's a well built piece of kit and I've seen full sets selling on Ebay for around 70 ! A bargain espescially when it's 6 channel with a 10 model memory. Try and buy one without servos as the Three servos that come with it are for 'park flyers', mini servos. They have plenty of torque but are a bit fiddly. They would be ideal however if you are going to RC smaller Revell type model kits, you won't get better.
As i have mentioned on another Mayhem Forum, i also use my transmitter attached to a 12v 7amp Yuasa battery over my shoulder, taking the charging socket out of the back (which is by the way that no-one seems to mention is reverse polarity to Futaba, hiTec, Acoms, Sanwa ETC ) and threading the wire through the empty hole. Instead of 9.6v the display can show up to 13.5v ! I've lost 0.2 of a volt over 6 months, that's not bad is it?   
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andyn

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2008, 05:50:57 pm »

I can now also reccomend the DX5, as Greg has one in his new boat (not revealing what it is) and he reckons its very good.
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omra85

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2008, 09:56:22 pm »

As I need a proportional channel that is not on either of the 2 sticks (for mixture) i found that the Spektrum or the Futaba 6 are no good.
The Futaba 7C DOES have a knob for the 6th channel so I started looking at getting that.  The price was a bit OTT, with most shops selling the complete set for about 240 - but then I noticed a strange thing - the set comes with 4 digital 3052? servos which are high torque and normally sell for 25 each!  Then a local form (Midland Helicopters) have reduced the price to 209 for the set which means the Tx/Rx is the equivalent of 109 and puts it firmly in the same ball park as the Spektrum but with better functions.
I'm waiting to see if anyone at the show next week, will have a better deal.
Danny
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martno1fan

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2008, 06:43:10 pm »

Go with 2.4 futaba fasst do not use spektrum in a boat they just dont work well in fact i have two friends who tried spektrum and both crashed,one at over 55 mph into a concrete bank destroying his cat.Fasst is faultless i use a futaba 6ex heli radio and run my receiver enclosed in the box with the two antennas as far to 90% away from each other as possible with no problems so far even at 200 yrds away.By the way spektrums designers even say dont use them in a boat as they dont work very well over water.
Mart
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wideawake

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2008, 07:01:44 pm »

I'd be interested to know which Spektrum set caused a crash.    I've heard anecdotally of problems but not just related to Spektrum.   Was the problem apparently due to spray or no specific cause.   Did the crash occur because of a failure of the fail-safe?  Did the model rely on the built-in Smart Failsafe (if so was it properly set up) or was there an external one?   I can't imagine a boat capable of that speed was running without one.

I'm interested because I tried to simulate conditions which would provoke a circuit failure in test conditions and failed to do so at 100 yards with the low power button pressed.

BTW the Horizon Hobbies website does seem to endorse the Spektrum DX5e as suitable for boats.   Personally, based on my tests,  I think they're fine for 95% of users who don't have boats running at the speeds you quote.  At less than 60 they were flying off the shelves at the show today.

Guy - using a DX6 happily with steam and sail
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portside II

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2008, 09:34:25 pm »

Well i wont put down any radio whatever its name , but i will say this i had my tug out on the water for the first time today ,opperating on 2.4ghz with my new futaba , no glitches and with the new battery in the radio after 2 hours the voltage was still good.
Oh and the ACTion bec works a treat dave  :-)) without the backup battery switched on ,might even remove it if i can be bothered to undo the case and get it out .
And my reciever antenna's are just stuffed in the plastic project box about 2.5" x 4" ,no 90deg's there and no prob's
daz
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martno1fan

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2008, 11:43:09 pm »

I'd be interested to know which Spektrum set caused a crash.    I've heard anecdotally of problems but not just related to Spektrum.   Was the problem apparently due to spray or no specific cause.   Did the crash occur because of a failure of the fail-safe?  Did the model rely on the built-in Smart Failsafe (if so was it properly set up) or was there an external one?   I can't imagine a boat capable of that speed was running without one.

I'm interested because I tried to simulate conditions which would provoke a circuit failure in test conditions and failed to do so at 100 yards with the low power button pressed.

BTW the Horizon Hobbies website does seem to endorse the Spektrum DX5e as suitable for boats.   Personally, based on my tests,  I think they're fine for 95% of users who don't have boats running at the speeds you quote.  At less than 60 they were flying off the shelves at the show today.

Guy - using a DX6 happily with steam and sail

A friend from the states talked to a  guy at spektrum when he was having issues and he told him they are not suitable for boats so seems odd that they advertise them to use in boats at horizon?.The problem with spektrum is the channel hopping been only on two channels it just doesnt work consistantly on water whereas fasst does and is proven on water.All the guys in the states use fasst because of all the failures with spektrums on water.My mate who ran his cat with spektrum had it set up fine and everything was working fine then off the boat went on its own no failsafe in the boat its on the radio itself.Silly fool then gave it another chance in another boat and guess what you guessed it same outcome.Also i may add theres a big difference between a gas boat and electric too,but i wouldnt use spektrum in any fast boat period its not worth the risk,by the way that was his boats very first outing and ive read it numerous times and have researched the spektrum versus fasst thing considerably before switching from fm to fasst.Im no techno but ive asked the question on two diff forums and allways the same answer dont use spektrum use futaba fasst.I think ive come across maybe one or two guys who have used spektrum and they said it was ok but they were the only ones everyone else who had tried them said they had problems with either losing signal or the failsafe kicking in for no apparent reason.All i can say is ive not heard of any problems like that with the fasst system.As for the dx6 i was told catagoricaly by the seller theyre not suitable for boats,be interesting if you could get in touch with spektrum and find out what they say  ok2.
Mart
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martno1fan

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Re: What Transmitter?
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2008, 12:37:26 am »

Heres a thread on what im talking about from the other forum,spektrum confirmed to a model shop owner they are not suitable for use in boats whereas futaba say the fasst system is fine and some fasst systems even have boat mode built in  ok2.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8063223/anchors_8063223/mpage_1/key_spektrum/anchor/tm.htm#8063223
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