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Author Topic: King Of Shaves.  (Read 17228 times)

martno1fan

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2008, 01:19:51 AM »

Had it confirmed it is a cy motor they call theres a KWA whereas the other importers call theres a sikk ,same motor built at chung yang in China.He reckons its hit 63 mph with a stock KWA motor ,seems hopefull but you never know.Love to see the proof though  ok2.
Mart
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2008, 04:07:44 AM »

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martno1fan

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2008, 09:36:25 AM »

Martin thats deff a better boat its my  mate Waynes boat its a cto3 from MHZ with twin counter rotating moddified zenoahs it was orriginally fitted out by bonzi for someone else and cost arround 6,000 ish including the paintjob.The hull alone costs arround 500 i believe but  Wayne bought it for considerably less after it had only been run maybe 2-3 times,a bargain you could say but still out of my price range.He gps'd it at 58 mph but he reckons it will do over 65 in the right conditions.Its def a work of art and its 67" long.
Mart
heres cpl more videos of it
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tKbG-or4vzU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Ac6-saaxg
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andyn

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2008, 03:18:56 PM »

A far better boat?

http://bonzisports.com/classic_info.html

 {-)

84 inches...
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martno1fan

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2008, 04:00:57 PM »

Well its bigger not better  :}  i  forgot to add earlier the cto3 has twin bonzi 4s for power.
Mart
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andyn

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2008, 05:04:17 PM »

Then that is a very good boat... Shiney hardware in a variety of colours - What could possibly be wrong with it?

Oh and the 84" classic comes with 4 4's
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2008, 05:37:21 PM »

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andyn

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2008, 05:44:21 PM »

Yes that is it martin, the Bonzi 84 classic is an Apache...

http://bonzisports.com/catalogue/index.php?cPath=22_50
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martno1fan

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2008, 06:47:21 PM »

Actually i prefer this one,nope its not available it was built to order by the sponsors of the real one,a friend from the states just bought it this spring from the guy who did own it,it cost over $15 k  :o,heres a cpl of pics at its unveiling also loads more on his pic site ,nice pair of twins ehh  :D
Mart
ps still waiting for some video from him of her running
http://imageevent.com/justaddwata
GOTTA LOVE THOSE COCONUTS LOL
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2009, 05:00:37 PM »

You too can own your own model of the "KING OF SHAVES" for 749.99!!!!



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140322438017#ebayphotohosting
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Bill D203

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2009, 01:11:41 PM »

Very Nice. But what they don't tell you it is fitted with a VERY Noise Ex pipe. You should not run it at your local park as you will get chucked out, and it is NOT OMRA legal. :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :((
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andyn

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2009, 01:44:07 PM »

Thats the boat that started this whole discussion...

A challenge for you all, if any of you out there can find me a Japenese / Chinese / whatever-ese RTR boat that DOES NOT need a lot of work doing to it, or a few hundred pounds spending on it, or has an out of the box range of more than a few inches, then I shall be so amazed I may just explode....
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ids987

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2009, 05:09:12 PM »

Thats the boat that started this whole discussion...

A challenge for you all, if any of you out there can find me a Japenese / Chinese / whatever-ese RTR boat that DOES NOT need a lot of work doing to it, or a few hundred pounds spending on it, or has an out of the box range of more than a few inches, then I shall be so amazed I may just explode....

Some of the American-ese RTR boats are getting a very good rep. The Aquacraft boats especially are making a name for themselves.

http://www.aquacraftmodels.com/

Supervee 27, Miss Vegas, Nitro Hammer, VS1 spring to mind - although the VS1 is only "almost ready to run"
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andyn

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2009, 05:16:59 PM »

The SV-27 is reviewed by Trevor as being 'ok but not fast', the Miss Vegas and Nitro Hammer feature non waterproof radio boxes and useless engines....

I am trying believe you me to find a decent RTR, thought I'd found one in the Thunder Tiger Bandit, but the engine mounts fall apart and the engine itself is held on with screws not bolts, and the radio box is rubbish, with far too long pushrods that bend...

Not sure about the VS1 though, not seen one yet, only down point I can find is that it's electric ;)
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ids987

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2009, 05:55:04 PM »

The SV27 and VS1 are definitely geared more towards the "serious" part of the market. The involvement of Mike Zabrowski (Grim Racer) - certainly helps give some of their products more credibility. They offer various upgrades for the SV27, but it is supposed to be pretty adequate out of the box. As far as speed goes, the Nitro version is allegedly good for almost 40MPH with an upgraded prop, and nothing else. Pretty impressive for an RTR with a .18 Nitro engine.
The VS1 is designed for a .21 Nitro engine. Don't think the engine comes with it though, so I suppose you can take it out of the RTR category.
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andyn

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2009, 05:59:31 PM »

Sorry getting the VS1 and UL1 confused...

Anyway what you need is one of these....

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martno1fan

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2009, 06:16:17 AM »

Very Nice. But what they don't tell you it is fitted with a VERY Noise Ex pipe. You should not run it at your local park as you will get chucked out, and it is NOT OMRA legal. :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :((

Just install your own internmal stinger its easy and it works exellent.all you need is some tubing the same diam as the internal part of your outlet on the pipeor stinger as its sometimes called then slide it in as far as the widest part of the pipe or centre of band etc,allways good to drill a small hole in your new internal stinger tube just where the pipe converges to the stinger so as to drain out the oil ,slide it in and either fasten with a  pop rivett or silver solder in place.By all accounts it will quieten any noisy pipe to legal limits and it doesnt hurt the performance in fact some say it can improve it and for an extra quiet pipe you can also add an add on muffler  ok2.
Mart
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2009, 08:57:00 AM »

Interesting! I've seen a 3 engined Hydro but not a 4 engined.... anything RC!!!
 Know anything more about it Andy?


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ids987

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2009, 12:28:18 PM »

Very Nice. But what they don't tell you it is fitted with a VERY Noise Ex pipe. You should not run it at your local park as you will get chucked out, and it is NOT OMRA legal. :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :((

Just install your own internmal stinger its easy and it works exellent.all you need is some tubing the same diam as the internal part of your outlet on the pipeor stinger as its sometimes called then slide it in as far as the widest part of the pipe or centre of band etc,allways good to drill a small hole in your new internal stinger tube just where the pipe converges to the stinger so as to drain out the oil ,slide it in and either fasten with a  pop rivett or silver solder in place.By all accounts it will quieten any noisy pipe to legal limits and it doesnt hurt the performance in fact some say it can improve it and for an extra quiet pipe you can also add an add on muffler  ok2.
Mart

Mart, No arguments with the concept of an internal stinger. But, assuming that the pipe was correctly dimensioned in the first place, the internal diameter, of the new, internal stinger, needs to be the same as the internal diameter , of the original stinger. If the wall thickness of the internal stinger is less than the original, you may be able to drill out the i/d of the original stinger to the o/d of the internal stinger - then slide it in. If not, you need to replace the original stinger with the internal stinger. If you just make an internal stinger to slide inside the unmodified original stinger, you are significantly reducing the diameter of the stinger, and altering the characteristics of the pipe. If the pipe was previously well designed, this will cause power loss, excessive back pressure, excessive heat, and quite possibly engine damage due to detonation.
Properly implemented, an internal stinger will reduce noise significantly, and probably without power loss or other ill effects. I don't think it will reduce the noise from an open pipe down to OMRA / MPBA levels though. It may just about work for the (10dB higher), permitted levels in the US, but radiated noise, and the noise received by a measuring device depends on many other factors as well.
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ids987

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2009, 12:32:13 PM »

Sorry getting the VS1 and UL1 confused...

Anyway what you need is one of these....


I'm still waiting for the earth shattering kaboom - from the "amazing exploding Andy"....
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andyn

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2009, 04:13:13 PM »

Interesting! I've seen a 3 engined Hydro but not a 4 engined.... anything RC!!!
 Know anything more about it Andy?




Infact I do yes, it's what I'm running at Llanberis and Wiki park next year ;)
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martno1fan

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2009, 12:52:24 AM »

Very Nice. But what they don't tell you it is fitted with a VERY Noise Ex pipe. You should not run it at your local park as you will get chucked out, and it is NOT OMRA legal. :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :((

Just install your own internmal stinger its easy and it works exellent.all you need is some tubing the same diam as the internal part of your outlet on the pipeor stinger as its sometimes called then slide it in as far as the widest part of the pipe or centre of band etc,allways good to drill a small hole in your new internal stinger tube just where the pipe converges to the stinger so as to drain out the oil ,slide it in and either fasten with a  pop rivett or silver solder in place.By all accounts it will quieten any noisy pipe to legal limits and it doesnt hurt the performance in fact some say it can improve it and for an extra quiet pipe you can also add an add on muffler  ok2.
Mart

Mart, No arguments with the concept of an internal stinger. But, assuming that the pipe was correctly dimensioned in the first place, the internal diameter, of the new, internal stinger, needs to be the same as the internal diameter , of the original stinger. If the wall thickness of the internal stinger is less than the original, you may be able to drill out the i/d of the original stinger to the o/d of the internal stinger - then slide it in. If not, you need to replace the original stinger with the internal stinger. If you just make an internal stinger to slide inside the unmodified original stinger, you are significantly reducing the diameter of the stinger, and altering the characteristics of the pipe. If the pipe was previously well designed, this will cause power loss, excessive back pressure, excessive heat, and quite possibly engine damage due to detonation.
Properly implemented, an internal stinger will reduce noise significantly, and probably without power loss or other ill effects. I don't think it will reduce the noise from an open pipe down to OMRA / MPBA levels though. It may just about work for the (10dB higher), permitted levels in the US, but radiated noise, and the noise received by a measuring device depends on many other factors as well.

Hi mate i can see what your saying but the guys who have done this mod are very well respected and they say they havent had any issues doing this,Scott Schneider been one.In any case most of the noisy pipes tend to be china pipes which in my experience tend to have over large stingers anyway so reducing its diam will probably benefit its performance as seems to be the case by all accounts.Heres a cpl of links of some how to information etc.By the way funny you mention back pressure as my mate tried his rcmk with one of the better know pipes on the market in the hydro i built him and said it had so much back pressure the boat did all of 5 mph then blew the pipe clean off the header,after several attempts he gave up on it.It was a new cooper quiet pipe,he imediateley changed to a china pipe and it ran like a champ if a little noisy see vid.
Mart
china pipe on comet hydro,first test run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLJP0PrWkxs

http://www.jrcbd.com/showthread.php?t=3569&highlight=internal+stinger

http://www.jrcbd.com/showthread.php?t=3569&highlight=internal+stinger
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ids987

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2009, 02:36:57 PM »

Very Nice. But what they don't tell you it is fitted with a VERY Noise Ex pipe. You should not run it at your local park as you will get chucked out, and it is NOT OMRA legal. :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :(( :((

Just install your own internmal stinger its easy and it works exellent.all you need is some tubing the same diam as the internal part of your outlet on the pipeor stinger as its sometimes called then slide it in as far as the widest part of the pipe or centre of band etc,allways good to drill a small hole in your new internal stinger tube just where the pipe converges to the stinger so as to drain out the oil ,slide it in and either fasten with a  pop rivett or silver solder in place.By all accounts it will quieten any noisy pipe to legal limits and it doesnt hurt the performance in fact some say it can improve it and for an extra quiet pipe you can also add an add on muffler  ok2.
Mart

Mart, No arguments with the concept of an internal stinger. But, assuming that the pipe was correctly dimensioned in the first place, the internal diameter, of the new, internal stinger, needs to be the same as the internal diameter , of the original stinger. If the wall thickness of the internal stinger is less than the original, you may be able to drill out the i/d of the original stinger to the o/d of the internal stinger - then slide it in. If not, you need to replace the original stinger with the internal stinger. If you just make an internal stinger to slide inside the unmodified original stinger, you are significantly reducing the diameter of the stinger, and altering the characteristics of the pipe. If the pipe was previously well designed, this will cause power loss, excessive back pressure, excessive heat, and quite possibly engine damage due to detonation.
Properly implemented, an internal stinger will reduce noise significantly, and probably without power loss or other ill effects. I don't think it will reduce the noise from an open pipe down to OMRA / MPBA levels though. It may just about work for the (10dB higher), permitted levels in the US, but radiated noise, and the noise received by a measuring device depends on many other factors as well.

Hi mate i can see what your saying but the guys who have done this mod are very well respected and they say they havent had any issues doing this,Scott Schneider been one.In any case most of the noisy pipes tend to be china pipes which in my experience tend to have over large stingers anyway so reducing its diam will probably benefit its performance as seems to be the case by all accounts.Heres a cpl of links of some how to information etc.By the way funny you mention back pressure as my mate tried his rcmk with one of the better know pipes on the market in the hydro i built him and said it had so much back pressure the boat did all of 5 mph then blew the pipe clean off the header,after several attempts he gave up on it.It was a new cooper quiet pipe,he imediateley changed to a china pipe and it ran like a champ if a little noisy see vid.
Mart
china pipe on comet hydro,first test run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLJP0PrWkxs

http://www.jrcbd.com/showthread.php?t=3569&highlight=internal+stinger

http://www.jrcbd.com/showthread.php?t=3569&highlight=internal+stinger

Hi Mart, Yes, too big a stinger will hurt performance too. As a general rule, too large will hurt top end, but is "safe". Too small will hurt torque, and is less safe. I you start off "too big" on the stinger, and get gradually smaller, power will increase to a point. One danger is that, beyond that point, the power fall off is initially quite small and therefore hard to detect, before detonation starts - potentially destroying the piston. Some of the effects of reducing stinger diameter emulate a shorter pipe. These factors can be compensated by lengthening the pipe, but there are others which can't - like the rate at which the stinger will allow the exhaust gases to escape. As stinger size is one of the easier things to change (like pipe length), it is something that can be tweaked - by those who know what they are doing. Andy Brown, for example, offers different sized stinger inserts for some of his pipes. Which one works best will depend on a fairly wide range of factors (engine, boat, fuel, environmental etc).
If you follow what someone has successfully done before - with the same pipe, engine etc, there should be a good chance of success, and I certainly wouldn't dispute people like Scott Schneider's ability, and to some extent that is the key (ie they know how to interpret the results of changes they make). I just didn't want anyone to think you could do this blindly with any pipe, and expect it to work well. If you keep the stinger diameter the same, you should be able to run quiter with less unknowns, and with a higher probability of no adverse effects. Ideally, this should really be done without changing the length of the stinger either. Lengthening the stinger also increases its flow resistance - though to a lesser extent than reducing the diameter. By sliding a pipe into the existing, unmodified stinger, you are making it longer and smaller.
The earliest reference I have seen to the internal stinger, was from the "Two Stroke Tuner's Handbook" by Gordon Jennings - written circa 1973. Jennings wrote that he stumbled across the idea - by sliding the whole length of the stinger into the baffle / converging cone - trying to make a shorter pipe. He later discovered that it had been documented a few years previously.
Sorry it's a bit of a long post again. I'm trying to avoid going into tuned pipe theory in any great depth.

Ian
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martno1fan

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2009, 03:28:49 PM »

Ian not a problem about the long post its all good info,i see where your coming from .My idea about adding the internal stinger was to do this to the china pipe knowing these things are loud and tend to have the extra large diam at the stinger(i should have made that clearer ),that said ive seen lots of guys doing it to many different pipes over the pond and they dont seem to be encountering too many problems .I intend trying it on my old 2" band ali pipe this summer so ill let you know how i get on.
Mart
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ids987

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Re: King Of Shaves.
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2009, 10:47:41 AM »

Ian not a problem about the long post its all good info,i see where your coming from .My idea about adding the internal stinger was to do this to the china pipe knowing these things are loud and tend to have the extra large diam at the stinger(i should have made that clearer ),that said ive seen lots of guys doing it to many different pipes over the pond and they dont seem to be encountering too many problems .I intend trying it on my old 2" band ali pipe this summer so ill let you know how i get on.
Mart
Good luck. I'm sure it will be fine - and quieten things down a lot. Since we were talking about RTR boats, and in the context of your comments, I probably went off on a bit of a tangent. I don't think it is likely to cause a problem with a "mild" engine. A lot more likely to be a problem with a highly tuned one.
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