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Author Topic: Using Houshold paints for models  (Read 3110 times)

tigertiger

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Using Houshold paints for models
« on: October 24, 2008, 11:28:25 AM »


I am considering using household paints on my next model, applied by fine brush. Then coating with Acrylic matt or PolyU matt.
This is because finding rattle cans is not easy for me in China, but finding primer is harder still.
And from one maunufacturer, forget it.

Is PolyU known to react with anything?

The model will be wood.

Any advice??
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 03:03:21 PM »

A lot may depend on what the household paints are based on (lead? %). Some of the so called wood paints these days just seem to put a plastic "skin" on the surface. Not much use if you want to rub them down. Probably some melamine in there as well where you are.... Definitely a case of suck it and see on a bit of waste material.

Colin
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chingdevil

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2008, 05:18:14 PM »

In the UK a lot of the household paints are not always oil based now, being very close to emulsion paint which is water based. So they are as close as possible to being odour free, trouble is with normal use they can rub off the surface they have been aplied to. Not sure how they would survive in a damp environment.

Brian
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Roger in France

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2008, 05:54:10 PM »

....and if it is lead based, do not take Colin's advice. "Sucking" such paint is not a good thing!

If I can get lead based paint I will buy it and use it for exterior work as, in my view, it has superior protective qualities. Having said that there are many waterbased undercoats available which I find OK.

Roger in France
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Jonty

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2008, 10:31:56 PM »

  You won't find it in China, but it's worth looking at a Farrow & Ball colour card. Expensive stuff, but many of the colours appear to match camouflage colours, and would make sense on a large model.
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John C

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 03:35:35 PM »

The guy that makes his boat hulls out of old emulsion paint and newspaper comes to mind here.

He often pops up at the Warwick show and I've spoken to him on a couple of occasions, where he's assured me that so long as you seal the surface afterwards the hulls are fine, so It might be worth a try using these water based paints with a few sealer coats of varnish.

Not sure I'm that brave though............but if needs must I'm sure it's worth a test piece if sourcing paint is such a problem in China.

I thought that lead based paint was all the go over there, didn't Mattell have a problem with their Chinese made toys being painted with lead based paint?

John
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 03:44:02 PM »

Lead based paint would be great - solve all your ballasting problems at the same time!  ;)
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tigertiger

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2008, 04:28:27 PM »

How many layers of paint then? :o
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chingdevil

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2008, 07:20:41 PM »

I thought selling lead based paint was now illegal, or is it still possible to obtain it?? I can imagine the PPE I would have to wear if it was used where I work.


Brian
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2008, 08:00:18 PM »

Hi Mark
I have used emulsion as an under coat / primer, rubbed down when really dry and then painted with normal house paint (could have lead based it was an old tin !) For the final coat, I put some of the paint into and old tin, then put that into a tub of boiling water, then used warm paint (this works with most paints) You get a really good finish. Word of warning though, make sure there are no nails etc of ferrous metals showing as emulsion is water based--and of course you can guess what happens to steel pins.
Bet you want to know how I found out-------just about the same time as the final coat of paint dried (it was a bu**ger to rub back those bits)
Hope this helps  :-)) :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2008, 02:47:25 AM »

I thought selling lead based paint was now illegal, or is it still possible to obtain it??

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the tips so far.

Yes there are still lots of lead based paints here in China and other parts of the world.
I won't be wearing PPE as I think I am passed chilhood developmental of my brain, and the brain damage was done years ago. Mostly through Pernod, but I blame the French for that  :D
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Roger in France

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 05:54:37 AM »

On behalf of the French, I PROTEST! Nobody made you drink it - but it does show you are a refined man TT!

On lead paint...

I think you will find the UK Regs. prohibit paint with a  lead content above a certain level on items intended for children below a certain age. Well those were the Regs. when I enforced them as a Trading Standards Officer many years ago. I do not think lead paint as such is prohibited but possibly manufacturers have moved away from its use.

Roger in France
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2HogsAL

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2008, 05:02:41 PM »

Hi TT

I have been having similar thoughts about paint over here.  I am planning a slightly bigger build at some time in the future and the thought of having to shake up loads of cans is not pleasant. 

I know this may seem obvious but, have you tried contacting the manufacturer?  They may have a customer careline that is able to give you the info you need.  Afterall, it is their paint and if anyone should know, it's them.   :}



Regards Al
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Damien

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 10:56:05 AM »


My grand father was a house painter in the 50's/60's  and always drank lots of milk he said it put a coating on any lead injested, then about 15 yrs later in the mid 70's I worked as a storeman in the oil/paint store at Commonwealth Aircraft in Melbourne Aust. Where i was provided with 1 litre of milk a day and the company nurse stood and watched me drink the litre each day,  long before OH&S started in force so it was important to bad for me years later it was found i'm lactose intollerent.
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Roger in France

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2008, 11:10:06 AM »

It is amazing how these old wives tales persist and gain creedance. There is absolutely no scientific evidence for milk reducing or eliminating the problems with lead. The problem is that the human metabolism has no way of dealing with or discharging lead once ingested.

Mind you, I think I am more threatened by the quantity of wine I drink than the lead seal on the bottle. In any case, lead seals are currently only used on very expensive wine which I drink rarely!

Roger in France.
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2HogsAL

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2008, 11:29:52 AM »

Hi Roger

Maybe you should drink the paint.   :D

Regards Al
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cbr900

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2008, 12:20:03 PM »

Tiger,

I have been painting my boats with plastic paint for years,
with no problems yet, but I do use depending on the
required finish, flat semi of gloss varnish on top which
seals the paint rendering it waterproof, I have found
that by getting sample pots means the paint is very
cheap or free depending on the promotion........


Roy
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PT Sideshow

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Re: Using Houshold paints for models
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2008, 03:47:23 PM »

Lead was in the paint for giving the paint one coat coverage and wareability/toughness. If you scrap your finger nail or a wood stick over suspected lead based paint you will get a grey colored streak. this is a pretty good indicator that if for have small children around that will be putting small things in their mouths you should remove it or encapsulate it under a coat of the approved sealing paint and the at least one top coat.

One shot sign paint was called such because of the amount of lead is in the paint higher then the other brands. Before it was mandated to be removed. It would cover in one stroke when painting letters. Red was the paint with the greatest amount in it. You can always tell when a sign painter or wall dog used cheaper paint as the red is the first to go and only leave a slight trace behind. Followed by the other colors, in the days before the UV blockers were developed.

The one single difference you will find in using house paint compared to model paint or even craft paints or artists paints is the size of the pigment grinding and filler size.  It will be a lot larger compared to the better model paint or artist paints in oil or acrylic, acrylic/latex.  If you have a lot of details, deck plank spacing lines,bulkhead lines rivets or other lightly scored details. You will notice they fill up faster with the house paint. So you will need to enlarge the lines or do a number of thin coats. Problem with thinning the paint to much is you also thin the vehicle, pigment, binders,fillers and dryers that are added to the paints. Which can cause wear and adhesion problems along with coverage.

Any of the exterior paints will be water proof up to the approved thinning rate on the can. Whether oil or acrylic, acrylic/latex. Not for being submerged in water 24/7, but say if they are dried for a week and then used they should be set up and (dried) from the outside surface down to the layer up against wood, metal,plastic.

I'm not familiar what types are sold in China for household projects. But a better choice would be the kind of paint that is used on toys, furniture, and general use/decorating type.




These are the type of paint I'm referring to.

Here is something that can come in handy and save some mess when mixing paint. Battery operated drink mixers. One of the US model suppliers was selling the same thing for $9.99 but the picture had the cardboard display and I recognized it at the dollar store




From left to right Extenders two different brands thinners and will also thin the opaqueness of the paint. Thickener thickens the paint but a side effect is it also thins the opaqueness of the paint. Another bottle of just thinner for either brush or airbrush. Gesso is the thicker material that is like a primer for canvas or other material, wood, Masonite, metal prior to painting on it.  Modeling paste is a thin material that can be mixed with the paint or painted over after it is hard. for mud, and rust or barnacle effect. The last is a lither version of the paste called a snow paste. It is used for winter and ice effects easier than using parrifin wax




Check out the artist supply houses or web sites, or your local craft big box stores as they are a treasure trove modeling supplies.
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