Topic: White metal fittings (Read 16712 times)

Pat Matthews · « **on:** October 27, 2008, 05:10:31 pm »

I'm working on my first Model Slipway kit... and am wondering about their metal fittings. Extremely soft, and the metal clogs my files and seizes drill bits... very much like pure lead does!

Are these pure or mostly lead? Is that even legal anymore? Not to mention that any serious modeler would eschew lead, due to "lead rot", wherein lead fittings can turn to dust over the years...

nhp651 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:39:22 pm »

Instead of airing your views on open forum, Pat........why don't you firstly email or speak to them personally like one should do and sort it out between your selves.
Casting personal and (could be construed as libelous) accusations and aspertions upon a company is not helpfull to anyone especially a company which brings a lot of pleasure to many in the modelling world!!

Pat Matthews · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:49:19 pm »

My my, we're sensitive!
But I did think this was a forum where one could ask a question and get an informed response... sorry, my mistake.

But please, I'm not up on my metal fittings... if suggesting that a fitting is lead when it's not is considered libelous, I do hope that we can set the record straight! And if they are lead, is that something we modelers need to keep shushed up?

andygh · « **Reply #3 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:59:18 pm »

I think your worries are unfounded, I have 30+ year old whitemetal model railway locomotives that are as good as new, no signs of any so called "rot", the same goes for all of my whitemetal boat fittings, never had any such problem.

Why would lead be illegal

err, you don't eat them do you?

A tip for un-clogging tools, heat them over a flame/gas ring until whitemetal softens then use a brass suede brush to remove it while still hot, preferably outside & usual safety precautions must be taken, eye protection etc. blah blah

PS. why should anything need to be "shushed up"? whitemetal is an alloy of lead & tin, I don't understand why you are so preoccupied with lead, it can of course be poisonous when ingested but so are numerous other things we all have lying around the house

John W E · « **Reply #4 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:59:47 pm »

hi ya there Pat

If you are new to the field of working with soft materials, such as white metals and Plastics - you will find that they do tend to clog our hand tools up fairly quickly. Especially, when using (as you found out) using small high-speed drills on the white metal fittings. It always pays to keep the drill bit well lubricated and reduce the speed of the drill when drilling soft materials.

As far as lead content in white metal alloys these days which is on sale to the general public, I feel as though it may be a lead substitute due to the fact of the Law Changes. The law has definitely changed with regard to the use of lead - and that is why it is difficult these days to find lead-based solder.

I should imagine the Company who supply the materials to the modelling company/manufacturer who you have purhased your model from - will have already changed from a lead based alloy. I very much therefore doubt your fittings will have a lead content - if they do - it will only be small and then you dont have much to worry about.

Unless you are going to start eating the fittings

Your first posting was obviously misread by certain people and mis-interpreted - dont let it put you off my friend.

aye
John e
bluebird

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:59:52 pm »

They don't tend to deteriorate as they are always paited for colour and protection.
think you'll find they will outlast you, your children, grand childeren, grand, grad kids, grand, grand, etc, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_metal

andygh · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:08:42 pm »

I have unpainted bits & pieces from years ago Martin, still as good as new

Reade Models · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:10:33 pm »

I don't believe that there are any regulations governing the sale of products made from lead?

The WEEE Regulations govern the disposal of waste electronic products containing lead, but they don't apply to products manufactured wholly from lead.

(You can still go into Wickes and buy a roll of lead flashing for ballast).

Malc

andygh · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:13:36 pm »

Lead fishing weights and lead cartridge shot for guns are still freely available

Davew · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:21:18 pm »

Hi
you could ask the manufacturer for the kit for a copy cossh regulations on the use and handling of white metal , if you go to wicks you can get a copy this on rolls of lead.

thanks Davew . this only my opinion

nhp651 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:42:12 pm »

sadly, for Pat, who I believe comes from the USA there are restrictions on the use of lead, just as they also restrict the use of untreated soft wood imports.......you can't make up a packing crate for a model to be imported into the US unless it has been pressure treated with a tanilising agent to kill of any bugs and fungus.
I say sadly, because I find the US so "politically correct" to be hipocrytical.....when they are one of the worlds greatest Co2 producers, that they worry about a little lead and untreated soft timber!!.
And that is why I am/was annoyed about someone having a "pop" at a british company who is one of the world's better model producers, when all it needed was an email to that manufacturer rather than make out that they are producing something that someone not ofee' with such matters in this country can raise issue on, and make out that that company may be doing something "illegal".
If you feel you have an issue with Model Slipway, then take it up with them, not air it on open forum.
There are plenty many of well satisfied customers throughout the world who have no truck with the white metal fittings that Model Slipway supply.
I must add at this point, that I have NEVER bought or owned an MS kit so have ABSOLUTELY no sway one way or other, other than to defend a british company from POLITICAL CORRECTNESS! gone mad!!

Pat Matthews · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:47:38 pm »

Well, I was poking around a bit (and yes, a call to the maker would be appropriate, just haven't yet!)... while lead has been banned in many applications (such as solder), it's by no means universal... so lead toy soldiers and lead model boat fittings might well still be "legal"!
Scarily, I found that's it may still be legal in police trunchions as well, for example...

Lead corrosion DOES happen, it'll take me a while to offer documentation, and it happens regardless of coating. But it's more a museum issue- the process may take decades, well beyond the typical horizon of an r/c model... but still a consideration if you take your models seriously.

Other metals make stronger castings, though I suspect strength is in direct proportion to melt temp, and we like that to be low for rubber molds. I'd as soon see resin castings though to minimize top hamper in the model...

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:49:18 pm »

The US doesn't appear to have any restrictions in the use of lead in bullets!

Pat Matthews · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:50:40 pm »

OK,
http://thenrg.org/resources_articles.html?nauticalresearchguild=6fc715f233a6a194aaec3fe356375c13

See the article on lead corrosion in ship models, by Dana Wegner, curator of the US Navy Ship Models.

John W E · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:51:16 pm »

..... and even in friendly fire - it's still the same lead bullets

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:07:53 pm »

The miniature metal waterline models made during the 1930's succumbed to "lead pox" but I think we are talking here of metal with a very high, if not pure lead content. Much of the casting white metal used these days has only a small proportion of lead, some has none.

I have been collecting metal ship models since the mid 1960's and have yet to see any deterioration in the white metal from which they are cast.

Colin

Pat Matthews · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:14:55 pm »

The article above makes interesting reading... it suggests that the very materials we use (woods, paints, etc) can actually contribute to lead rot... but another key ingrediant is storage in an enclosed space (like a display case)... whereas the environment that most of us have for RC models is quite open and free breathing and good for long lead life. Whew!

Britannia metal, which contains no lead, is the suggested alternative for display models in enclosed spaces... but I still have no idea if MS's material is lead or something else!

p.s., Even here in the States, I do prefer a small car, though I must apologize for my 46 mile round trip daily commute!

nhp651 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:22:26 pm »

Jeese Pat, you certainly know how to change the subject!!!

One minute you're practically accusing a british company of selling something"illegal",
NEXT you're talking about how much better it is to display models with lead fittings in the open rather than put them in display cases.
You were quick to accuse MS on open forum.......how difficult is it to appologise to them also on open forum???

Davew · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:23:26 pm »

Hi
You should ask the manufacture for a copy of they CONTROL OF SUBSTANCES HAZARDOUS TO HEALTH this would tell you what in white metal fittings ,it does not matter if its a tube of glue or a tin of paint they should supply a copy.
Thanks DaveW

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:39:54 pm »

The "Here today, gone tomorrow" article that Pat is referring to makes very interesting reading. http://thenrg.org/displayarticle.html?id=5

Don'r expect your styrene based model to be admired by your great grandkids!

Colin

andygh · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:01:47 pm »

Quote

Don'r expect your styrene based model to be admired by your great grandkids!

Depends how old your Grandkids are

sheerline · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:07:21 pm »

Oh dear chaps, this thing with the white metal fittings is a bit of a worry over nothing I think. Wev'e been sticking these things on our subs for years, they get a squirt of paint so they look the right colour and thats how they stay... and ours are submerged!
People have sailed these models in all sorts of cruddy filth, freshwater ponds and saltwater to no ill effect. As a lot of us are grey haired old gits anyway, I reckon these fittings will see us out . If you're a young bloke and you are worrying about how long the fittings will last, you must be thinking of keeping the model till you are old and doddery and when that comes round, you will be so infirm you will either drop it, then bin it, or have one of those 'old person' dizzy' turns and fall over on top of it :'(... and bin it.
Believe me, they won't kill you and they won't rot off the model!

Reade Models · « **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:11:36 pm »

Quote from: Colin Bishop on October 27, 2008, 08:39:54 pm

Don'r expect your styrene based model to be admired by your great grandkids!

We have display cases full of our High Impact Polystyrene fittings that are in perfect condition - and at least 40 years old!

(and they have been on display in sunlit conditions too).

Malc

Davew · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:13:07 pm »

Hi
WHAT?
DaveW

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:18:44 pm »

Malc,

This one is 4,000 years old! Early George Turner figures I think....

Colin

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Author Topic: White metal fittings (Read 16712 times)

nhp651

andygh

andygh

Reade Models

andygh

nhp651

nhp651

andygh

Reade Models