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Author Topic: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA  (Read 6820 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2008, 10:34:43 pm »

In a deliberate attempt to hijack this topic:

One of our longstanding members has suggested to me that we should not carry explicit political discussion on Mayhem as people often hold strong views and the outcome can easily become contentious and divisive. I think maybe he has a point, this is essentially a model boat forum after all.

No reason why we can't continue to express our "Grumpy Old Git" views on the state of the nation but maybe we should keep off discussing specific politics.

What do people think?

Colin
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herrmill

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2008, 11:25:49 pm »

Chuck

I don't know to much about US politics, However it is my impression that US political history seams to indicate that the American people don't really warm to Socialism and as such the two parties are right leaning but one more so than the other. Would that be a correct assessment or have I miss read it?? I can only judge other countries political systems through my understanding of Australian politics.

Regards David

David,

Your spot on, but you also have realize we're not about in anyway to go socialist anymore than what FDR, Johnson or Nixon (yes, I did say Nixon) did in the last century.  Considering the magnitude of this financial crisis / crash / fiasco we're in, the only way to extract ourselves out of this mess will be through government spending, & I'd much rather see us grow our deficit at this point to keep jobs & put people back to work than suffer the consequences of another depression.  Even if the new administration was given a blank check & opened the flood gates to new infrastructure, WPA, home loan restructuring, auto industry bailout, universal health care, etc... programs its important to understand that Ronald Reagan ran a higher national debt to GDP ratio than anything you would EVER see today, & it certainly won't approach the record 125% we had at the end of WW2 that ushered in 30 years of economic growth.  Of course, that doesn't change the path that we're headed on which isn't anything one party or the other can change.   Kevin Philips work, Wealth & Democracy & his new book, Bad Money, should be required reading in American high school civics & economics courses.

The funniest part I find about all this rhetoric being thrown about is that if one looks back over the past century, you'll find higher economic & job growth under Democratic administrations than Republican, & yet all you hear about is taxes, taxes, taxes from the other side.  Considering that all this talk about a "tax increase" is not an increase at all, but simply allowing the present Bush tax holiday to expire as it was meant in 2010 resulting in a net increase of 3% for those in the uppermost income bracket.   Hardly something that will bankrupt those hardworking middle class tax payers who are supposedly going to be paying for this "new socialist agenda" that is purportedly coming at us.

Again, I'm a fiscally conservative, socially moderate Republican who wants to see us get back to what the party used to be like in the days of Eisenhower, Goldwater & GHW Bush.  Its a damn shame those running the GOP can't see the benefits of that.

Chuck


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bigfella

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2008, 03:56:26 am »

Colin

It is after all General Chit Chat and that is what is happening here. As long as everyone knows the boundaries of the forum anything can be discussed in a civil manner. You can not gag a topic if someone gets over excited on a topic or stands his ground. If everyone just remembers that this is a forum for all members and we all have differing opinions and they must be respected.

Chuck

Thanks for making it a little clearer. To an outsider the US political system seems quite difficult. In our system the Prime Minister (equivalent to your President) is the leader of the Party who has the majority in the House of Representatives (Parliament). The Ministers in charge of departments such as treasury, defence etc are selected from those of the same party as the PM who have been elected to Parliament. As apposed to the US system where the secretaries of departments are chosen by your President and are not elected members. In regards to Bush, I really do think that half way through his tenure he just gave up. What with wars and economic downturns costing billions. I would think he is glad it is all over.

Regards David
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tigertiger

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2008, 04:09:41 am »

Colin

It is after all General Chit Chat and that is what is happening here. As long as everyone knows the boundaries of the forum anything can be discussed in a civil manner. You can not gag a topic if someone gets over excited on a topic or stands his ground. If everyone just remembers that this is a forum for all members and we all have differing opinions and they must be respected.



To make it clear.
This is a discussion of a suggestion of one of our members, to ban politics as a topic.



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bigfella

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2008, 06:36:30 am »

Colin

It is after all General Chit Chat and that is what is happening here. As long as everyone knows the boundaries of the forum anything can be discussed in a civil manner. You can not gag a topic if someone gets over excited on a topic or stands his ground. If everyone just remembers that this is a forum for all members and we all have differing opinions and they must be respected.



To make it clear.
This is a discussion of a suggestion of one of our members, to ban politics as a topic.





Precisely my point it is a general topic of conversation. Those that don't like the subject are quite free to not enter the debate. I for one think politics is a very interesting topic and like to hear others views on the matter especially as this forum is world wide and have differing systems. You can not ban subjects that are normal daily discussions. I agree that banning some subjects which are bad taste or the like is needed but not every day topics. Thats my view anyway.

Regards David
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Roger in France

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2008, 06:43:08 am »

I understand why some may prefer not to discuss politics. However, this is "Chit Chat" and I entirely agree with "bigfella".

I would add that we live in a world where politics is our chosen system of government and with all its problems nobody has proposed an alternative/better system. As it infiltrates most thing how do we avoid it? As a Moderator I would find it very difficult to decide with some issues if there was or was not a political slant.

Some would argue we should exclude discussion of religion for the same reasons evinced in the Member's suggestion.

How about excluding sexuality; ageism; gender? The list could go on for ever depending on one or another member's viewpoint.

This Forum is a kind of club and I do not know of any club where members with a common interest also do not also discuss other matters which are of interest to them, provided such issues do not swamp the purpose for which the club was formed. One great advantage we have in an Internet Forum is that we do not need to read everything, i.e. it is easy to escape the club bore.

So long as we keep discussion civil, courteous and to the point I would strongly resist any subject being forbidden on Mayhem. I learn so much from being a Member of Mayhem and not just about model boating.

However, we must remember this is Martin's Site and he always has the final word.

Roger in France
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tigertiger

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2008, 06:50:03 am »

Bigfella.
It looks like I singled you out. Not my intention sorry.

I did see that you caught the meaning.
By quoting I was in fact trying to re-inforce what you were saying.
And at the same time point out that the notion of a ban on political discussion was not raised by the moderators, but by a member.

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bigfella

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2008, 06:53:42 am »

No problems TT :-)) :-)) :-)) I new what you meant and was just putting my thoughts into the debate.

Regards David
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Colin Bishop

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2008, 08:18:16 am »

I can appreciate the points made above as how do you decide what is "political" and that if you ban one subject then what about others?

So it comes down as Roger says, to people being reasonable and courteous in presenting their views and arguments. If we do have a controversial topic then it does need to be monitored carefully  and people who get a bit carried away in expressing their views must expect to run the risk of being moderated in the interests of harmony on the Forum.

Colin
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bigfella

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2008, 08:30:03 am »

Colin

I think that what you propose is fair to everyone. Another thing to all members is if you do find the topic offensive to yourself, please let it be known to the Moderators and not post your displeasure on the offending thread, as has happend before, slanging matches start and people say things that they wish they hadn't. Some members find subjects offensive that others may not. There is so much diversity on this forum that it is hard to know what everyone finds OK or not.

Regards David

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Bunkerbarge

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2008, 11:07:27 am »

I think banning a specific topic would be almost impossible to control anyway and we don't want the atmosphere on the forum to feel like we have too many rules to comply with.  The freedom of our speech is importnat to us all but the rub is of course that it must always stay within our standards of decency etc.. which is where it can become difficult to moderate and the accusations of censorship can occur.

I notice on another thread posted recently that some may feel that moderation can sometimes be percieved as against the individual.  Obviously we try very hard not to let that happen but we are sometimes accused of censorship and over moderation, usually of course by the very people who have overstepped the mark and consequently feel aggrieved. 

So to further Colins opening question of whether we should allow all topics to be discussed if we want this to remain this leads us to the thought of moderation and so I would like to ask what the membership generally feel about the levels of moderation that we currently have and whether it is effective. 

Obviously I am looking for something constructive and generic here and not opening the door to any rantings about specifics!!! %)







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Colin H

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2008, 02:35:55 pm »

Colin B has had to bring the content of one of my post's to my notice in the past and when I read it again I could see why. I had said something I did not mean to say.

We must have moderators and personally now I read my post's at least twice before hitting the button I have absolutely no problem with the level of moderation and I hold some very strong views on certain subjects.

To The Mods I say thanks for your work and keep it up (the work that is).

Colin H.
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tobyker

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2008, 04:34:37 pm »

I rather like the contentious topics as they show that whatever our differences we are all united in our liking for model boats. One of the good things about the net is that is lets so many people of many races creeds etc find common ground on something. When Stu on the Aprilia site was in hospital for his bypass he got get well messages from 24 countries!

An interesting thought for Remembrance Sunday?

I suppose BO is now a good thing? good luck to him and America.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2008, 06:05:09 pm »

Trying to move on......

I was at Warwick show today and they had the 2 minutes silence at 11 - 11 - -11... interesting to look at the expression
on peoples faces; sadness, reflection, respect, boredom.....
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bigfella

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2008, 11:03:00 pm »

Now back to the topic. Why would anyone want to be president of USA. Not being smart here, but the annual salary is only $400K and really that would be a months pay for a top CEO in one of the big companies. That $400k must just go into the pocket as what is the outgoings for a Pres. No rent, no food, no travel, no staff to pay no expenses at all. OK you "Want to make a difference" but seriously in bad times like these is it worth the stress. On the otherhand it could be after the job that is so inviting. Lets see free travel free office free this and that for the rest of your life and a comfortable retirement. GWB will certainly never want for anything in his dotage. The same can be said for Prime Ministers, we have 5 past PMs that have their free travel a fully staffed office, a fantastic superannuation and who knows what else they are entitled too. This must put a strain on the public purse and although I don't mind that after serving their country they are recognised for the hard work why do we have to pay for everything they do. Why cant they use single ply toilet tissue like the rest of us instead of triple ply {-) {-) {-) {-) {-).

Regards David
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herrmill

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2008, 11:33:55 pm »

David,

My thoughts exactly!  I've said to one during the campaign that no matter who won this election they had better be able to simultaneously walk on water, turn water into wine while feeding the masses with one loaf & a fish!  Our youthful-looking president-elect will soon look more like Morgan Freeman with what he's got to deal with.

No matter what bennies come with the office, its certainly has to be one's devotion to the country & an unfathomable commitment to service for one to take that job.  The notion of having unbridled power combined with huge ego doesn't hurt either..  ok2

Chuck
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bigfella

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2008, 11:44:57 pm »

Chuck

If I was a politician I would certainly not want to be the Number 1 where the buck stops. Somewhere in the middle with all the perks and non of the headaches. Those that do want to make a difference would probably be better of in local council where you actually meet your constituents now and then instead of having someone meet them for you.

"My thoughts exactly!  I've said to one during the campaign that no matter who won this election they had better be able to simultaneously walk on water, turn water into wine while feeding the masses with one loaf & a fish!  Our youthful-looking president-elect will soon look more like Morgan Freeman with what he's got to deal with" {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) Very funny i nearly pi55ed myself

Regards David
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wideawake

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2008, 11:48:02 pm »

Trying to move on......

I was at Warwick show today and they had the 2 minutes silence at 11 - 11 - -11... interesting to look at the expression
on peoples faces; sadness, reflection, respect, boredom.....


I'm really pleased that they did observe the silence and I trust that everyone complied.  One of the reasons I was later getting to the show today was that I wasn't sure if the show would observe it so I attended Church in Southam to take part in a shared 2 minutes and also had the opportunity to hear again Laurence Binyon's words "They shall not grow old as we that remain grow old....... etc" and share in the response "We will remember them"

Guy
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herrmill

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2008, 11:53:58 am »

To show our cousins across the pond how humor can help bridge this divide from the past election, take a look at this video posted on YouTube called Air Force One 2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIClfAu2MOA

I haven't heard this song in a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time & found this clip, edited from Soul Plane, to be hilarious!  {-)

Chuck



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Bryan Young

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2008, 05:03:09 pm »

I think banning a specific topic would be almost impossible to control anyway and we don't want the atmosphere on the forum to feel like we have too many rules to comply with.  The freedom of our speech is importnat to us all but the rub is of course that it must always stay within our standards of decency etc.. which is where it can become difficult to moderate and the accusations of censorship can occur.

I notice on another thread posted recently that some may feel that moderation can sometimes be percieved as against the individual.  Obviously we try very hard not to let that happen but we are sometimes accused of censorship and over moderation, usually of course by the very people who have overstepped the mark and consequently feel aggrieved. 

So to further Colins opening question of whether we should allow all topics to be discussed if we want this to remain this leads us to the thought of moderation and so I would like to ask what the membership generally feel about the levels of moderation that we currently have and whether it is effective. 

Obviously I am looking for something constructive and generic here and not opening the door to any rantings about specifics!!! %)

A perfect example of trying to ban something that will have unwanted results that would not occur if the subject had been left alone is the decision by "our" Home Secretary to make it illegal to buy sex....but not to ban women soliciting for it. I think there are some crossed wires here!








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andyn

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2008, 11:11:02 pm »

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PT Sideshow

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2008, 11:26:03 am »

Here you go, on change from the new old administration! Its from a Arizona newspaper. At least some of the people in that state are glad that the governor is now gone.
And since they all are politicians, if their lips are moving they are lying. I never understood why people believe either side of the political spectrum. During the primaries as they don't believe a word after they are elected. But I guess hope springs eternal in Human kind.
And political business goes on as always, as it has since the days in Rome.
 %%
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Hagar

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2008, 02:34:41 pm »

President of the US of A. The one job that everybody recons they can do better than the next, but when it comes to it, no one does better than the last. This actually applies to Prime ministers and other heads of state, come to think of it.

I always say, lets see how hard the dog bites, before we shoot it.
Give the man a chance and lets see what happens.

One thing I bet we will hear when his time is done:-
"It could of been worse, it could of been a woman!......" {-)

I'm just hoping that the US starts worrying more about its own problems and stops trying to save the world.
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oldiron

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2008, 03:40:03 pm »



I'm just hoping that the US starts worrying more about its own problems and stops trying to save the world.

  Its not necessarily that they're trying to save the world, as much as it is trying to make it in their own likeness................remember manifest destiny. Once they got their portion of the NA continent converted, they set out to do the world.

John
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Hagar

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Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2008, 04:55:45 pm »



I'm just hoping that the US starts worrying more about its own problems and stops trying to save the world.

  Its not necessarily that they're trying to save the world, as much as it is trying to make it in their own likeness................remember manifest destiny. Once they got their portion of the NA continent converted, they set out to do the world.

John

True enough.
I just have a problem with a nation that says to the world dont do this and dont do that, when the short version is, Its nothing they have not done them selfs at some point in history.
Not wishing to get this tread closed, or banned from the foum I will leave it at that and finish by just saying one thing that I feel quite strongly about.

Sweep your own yard before you start sweeping everybody elses.
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