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Author Topic: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof  (Read 14912 times)

andygh

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Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« on: November 07, 2008, 10:20:58 PM »

Anyone of the electronic whizzes out there attempted repair of an Electronize esc? How easy is it to get components for the older ones now?
Alternatively do Electronize or anyone else repair them?
I wouldn't mind but it wasn't even me that broke it, <:(   honest guv  O0
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Seaspray

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2008, 12:51:12 PM »

Phone them or enquire on line they'll probably repair it


Seaspray
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regiment

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2008, 02:56:05 PM »

i had a electronize speed control that i broke crossed wires  p to n repaired  for a token amount plus posted  regiment  {-)
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andygh

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2008, 05:42:29 PM »

Sorry to be a bit dim, p to n??
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gribeauval

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2008, 06:20:27 PM »

Sorry to be a bit dim, p to n??

He wired it up backwards!!  Positive to Negative.   {-) {-) {-)
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regiment

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2008, 06:53:43 PM »


could not spell negitive or positive just woke up after 40 winks regiment :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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andygh

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2008, 08:10:19 PM »

Doh, sorry but then I wouldn't have known that ................................ I'm only an electrician  :embarrassed:
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John W E

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 09:06:48 PM »

Hi there Andygh

When you say, your speed controller is old - how old do you think the speed controller is?   Have you removed the casing off the back of it?    If so, did you note the number on top of the chip???

Was it ZN409CE?  - if so Noah built it with the ark  ;)

or

did it have a silver strip across the top?   with ED4O something on it??? 

Give Electronize a ring and speak to them.   The chances are you may have fried the 'output' transistor but not knowing any symptoms  of the POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF it is difficult to analyse what it may be.

it could be simple in that you may have burnt a track out underneath on the circuit board, which, if it is - you may be able to correct that yourself - or, it may be the case of what we have mentioned above.

or it may have the NWF syndrome  :}  (NOT WORTH FIXING).

aye
john e
bluebird
i
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philk

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 09:25:54 PM »

don't laugh but i still have some zn409 and 419 chips in a box somewhere

phil
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John W E

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 09:27:53 PM »

don't laugh but i still have some zn409

Im not laughing - I have some stashed away as well - plus some speed controller circuits to build using them :-) {-) {-) :embarrassed: :

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andygh

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 09:47:35 PM »

Hi fellas
it is indeed a zn409 chip, don't know the circumstances of it going kerblooie as it was a gift (cheers mate  %)). The tracks look perfect and I can't see anything physically wrong.
A very rudimentary check with the volt meter shows 6v coming out until a load (g.o.w bulb) is applied, when it drops down to 0v'ish and the relay changes over like it should.
Apart from that is there any simple test you could suggest that might give me a clue to what's wrong.
I have a feeling it could be fubar as without knowing exactly where the problem lies it doesn't seem worth the effort of trying to source very obsolete components
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microgyros

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2008, 07:19:39 AM »

Relay,transistor or drive to transistor.
Fubar?        No
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andygh

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2008, 07:45:27 AM »

Sorry?  {:-{
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Seaspray

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2008, 08:56:09 AM »

Hi  :-))

The usual way to say positive is  +ve and negative is  -ve. Hope this helps you in the future.

Seaspray
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microgyros

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2008, 09:01:00 AM »

Hi fellas
it is indeed a zn409 chip, don't know the circumstances of it going kerblooie as it was a gift (cheers mate  %)). The tracks look perfect and I can't see anything physically wrong.
A very rudimentary check with the volt meter shows 6v coming out until a load (g.o.w bulb) is applied, when it drops down to 0v'ish and the relay changes over like it should.
Apart from that is there any simple test you could suggest that might give me a clue to what's wrong.
I have a feeling it could be fubar as without knowing exactly where the problem lies it doesn't seem worth the effort of trying to source very obsolete components
The above tells me it's one of the three things I mentioned.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2008, 01:38:24 PM »

The fact that the relay operates as expected indicates that relay and ZN409 are alive and well.  Suspicion now falls on the output transistor, the circuit driving it, and the bits of printed circuit. 
My faulting procedure now would be to hook up battery and motor, and short the collector and emitter (assuming a bi-polar transistor) or equivalents to see if the motor fires up.  If the motor does turn, then the transistor is either not switching on because it's broken and therefore can't, or not switching because it is not being told to.
But I would advise most folks to just contact Electronise first to see if they can fix it.
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andygh

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2008, 01:40:08 PM »


Quote
The usual way to say positive is  +ve and negative is  -ve. Hope this helps you in the future.

Quote
I'm only an electrician

Very helpful, I've only been doing the job for 25 years  O0 %) :kiss:
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andygh

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2008, 01:42:25 PM »

Cheers guys, I'll have a play with it later, let you know how I get on
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Seaspray

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2008, 02:22:26 PM »

There is a difference between electronics and electrics.

You can power up the ESC and after a while feel if there is a hot chip or another discrete component that is hot.that might be the problem.

You can do a voltage check if you know the test points and voltage expected but use the same ground point.

You can trace current if you have a current tracer/AVO/AMP meter,  can get in series with the track your testing,

You can check chip's pins I.D. again if you have the correct reader.

You can use a frequency meter to check the frequency and adjust the necessary pot/ variable resister to get the correct frequency.

You can check the digital pulse with a scope or there is a pen that tells you if the power/signal is 1 or 0

Hope this helps..... I am just learning

Seaspray

   
 

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John W E

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2008, 04:25:53 PM »

Hi Andy

one of the tell-tale signs of frying the output transistor on Electronize is - as soon as you connect up the main battery - you either get full reverse, flat out or nothing else.   Or, you get full forward, very very small dead band - in other words it goes from full forward momentarily stop and then straight into reverse with no controlling of the speed.

What you are describing when you put a load on her, the output goes to zero volts...the last time Ihad something like this one one of these speed controllers - believe it or not - it was a dry solder joint at fault.

Very much it will be a dry solder joint, but, you never know.

aye
john
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andygh

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2008, 08:27:22 PM »

OK, this is where I'm at
I've been over all joints with the iron just to make sure there were no dry joints, sadly made no difference  <:(

Shorted out the collector & emitter on the output transistor, motor spins up to full speed  :-))
Anyone know where I can get 1 BUK555 60b tranny or what an equivalent might be?

Incidentally, the motor spins at full speed during this exercise whatever the throw of the transmitter stick, although it does change direction at the correct point, is the output transistor still implicated under those circumstances?  {:-{
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Proteus

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2008, 11:51:20 PM »

this came out of one of them recently buz11 .. it had 3 legs when it went in


Proteus
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2008, 07:44:54 AM »

Anyone know where I can get 1 BUK555 60b tranny or what an equivalent might be?

The BUK555 is obsolete and I can't find anyone listing it any more - certainly none of our regular or occasional suppliers. Craig Talbot used this device in the old P17 ACTion Bilge Pump, and I recently fixed a dead unit for a customer by fitting one of our cheap-and-cheerful NDP6060L MOSFETs in its place. It might not be the best equivalent but what the heck - it worked, and I have a bucket full of 'em.

If you want to try one of these I'll happily supply one at cost plus P&P. I reckon you'd have change from a couple of quid unless you live in Siberia.........

Suit yourself.

PM me if you want to proceed.

FLJ
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OMK

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2008, 10:15:17 AM »

...which brings us nicely around to the final question of the day.........

What was the root cause of the BUZ11 going blooie in the first place?


(Answers please on the reverse of a twenty quid note).
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Electronize speed controller's gone pooooooof
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2008, 11:24:41 AM »

Quote
Incidentally, the motor spins at full speed during this exercise whatever the throw of the transmitter stick, although it does change direction at the correct point, is the output transistor still implicated under those circumstances?
By shorting out the transistor you have simulated it switching on, thus the motor spins flat out and is not controlled by the stick.  The stick is still sending to the ZN409, though, and that registers whether or not the relay should be operated, and its the relay that controls the direction of rotation.  The implication is either a dead transistor or broken bit of cicruitry driving it.  I would take up FLJ's offer.  I couldn't find that transistor in my elderly equivalent book, either, but there is every chance that his will have the same pin-out and near enough the same characteristics.
They don't all look like Proteus' when they go, but its a dam' good clue when they do.
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