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Author Topic: Pirates !  (Read 12095 times)

john54

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Pirates !
« on: November 19, 2008, 03:30:27 PM »

So Ladies & Gents
Whats the answer to the Pirates of EYL (Somalia) then?
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Arrow5

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 04:01:21 PM »

Submarine patrols ?   The few surface ships of the various navies seem to be easily avoided due to sophisticated equipment used by the pirates.  The thought that a submarine might pop up at any moment might make them be a bit wary.   A couple of towed decoys would make them think the area was infested with underwater weapons.  Plus of course get rid of the warlords and corrupt government and get economic stability so people dont have to resort to big-time crime. Remember  Mogodishou and the starving hordes ? >:-o
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DavieTait

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 04:01:52 PM »

We only have to look to fairly recent history , convoys and Q-ships.

The shipping insurance companies could force all shipping companies to wait in designated areas to be escorted in 20 ship convoys through the Gulf of Aden and down the East of Africa. Leaflets should be dropped onto Somalia to explain that ANY vessel of any size that approaches any warship , merchant ship or convoy would simply be blasted out of the water without any warning shots being fired.

The Q-Ships would  be the same as WW1 and WW2 , take a relatively old cargo or oil tanker , fit it out with 12 heavy machine guns each side along with plenty of Milan anti-tank guided missiles ( wire or RF guided by a trained operator ) which have a range of a few thousand meters and would sink anything up to 1000t deadweight without too much trouble and man it with 100 trainee Army/Navy/Airforce Regiment recruits as part of their training ( need a few good officers and NCO's to fire the Milan's and give orders but that is it , combine real training and anti-pirate patrol and save money on both !! )

Time to fire first and ask questions ( if we can be bothered ) later. Force is the only thing these Pirates will respect and if we declare that no vessels are permitted more than 12nm from their own coast ( the start of international waters ) stating that any found will be sunk then they will get the hint eventually !!
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2008, 04:02:32 PM »

Q boats!  O0
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Colin H

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2008, 04:15:14 PM »

I hear an Indian navy ship as just dealt with one of the mother ships.

Colin H
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toesupwa

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2008, 04:23:12 PM »

Piracy on the seas has been going on for centuries, ever since man took to the water... you will never stop it.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2008, 04:44:00 PM »

The Somalians would appear to be just getting started. For at least the last 30 years piracy has been rife in and around the Malacca Straits, and for a liitle less time: off the Nigerian coast. I have had first hand experience of these pirates in the Malacca Straits....they do tend to be of Indonesian origin. Unless the pirates have night vision equipment then at night one ship looks much like another. Although a warship can be quite distinctive. Be a bit stupid to attack one of those! But an RFA can (and does) look a bit like a merchant ship as far as profile / lights etc. are concerned. Our solution was a very simple one. Before we reached a "dangerous" area we would embark half a dozen Marines (or some other outfit that know how to fire a rifle) and have them patrol the decks. If a commercial ship has its radar on then any approaching boat should be picked up. So the deck patrol would be forwarned. A couple of warning shots was always very effective. So that would be my solution to the problem. Cheap and easy. But perhaps some "shipowners" are using piracy as an insurance scam....so they wouldn't be interested. Thereby opening another can of worms.
Some cruise liners are employing the "audible" method, to blast the pirates with sound. The whole thing seems very preventable if only owners and National Governments were really interested.
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nhp651

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2008, 04:49:46 PM »

When I saw "pirates" on the forum list I thought someone had made a thread about solicitors......sadly I can't have a rant any more {-) {-)
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polaris

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2008, 05:08:17 PM »


Correct me if I'm wrong, but a few single barrel shielded Oerlikons (&/or just good heavy auto rifles), some decent remote control armoured searchlights, and a decent radar would surely go a long way in putting such types off?

One slight snag in lobbing really nice heavy stuff at them from a freighter or tanker, is that they just might start lobbing something the same size or bigger back?!!! :embarrassed: With no armour, RPG/anti tank stuff could be very unpleasant......... {:-{
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Colin H

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2008, 05:13:28 PM »

News reports now confirm That INS Tabar an Indian frigate requested a pirate mother ship to stop for a search.

The pirates answer was that if they were approached they would blow up the frigate, they then opened fire.

Tabar returned fire and the pirate vessel sank after blowing up. One down a few more to go.

These guys cannot be very clever opening fire on a FRIGATE, lets just hope the rest are just as daft.

Colin H.
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sheerline

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2008, 05:20:50 PM »

The pirate problem can also have another knock on effect... any vessel genuinly in difficulties and in need of help will get ignored and maybe even shot at! When I first heard about this on the news, the first thing to spring to mind was Q Ships. A few sinkings will help to quell their activities I'm sure. Congratulation to the boys on the Indian frigate... well done!
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polaris

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2008, 05:26:02 PM »


Dear Colin H.,

Well, if they are wandering around with bigger vessels like that, these areas would be ideal for submarine torpedo practice and general training... just shadow the area in general and navy vessels and ships. Non compliance... boom! :-))



Regards, Bernard
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 05:46:23 PM »

But of course, as far as our Government is concerned, it's OK to run the destroyer/frigate force right down as there is no obvious need for them these days.  >:-o
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craftysod

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2008, 05:56:12 PM »

But of course, as far as our Government is concerned, it's OK to run the destroyer/frigate force right down as there is no obvious need for them these days.  >:-o

I can see it soon the Warrior,Belfast,Victory etc etc will be again an the high waters again  O0
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Shipmate60

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2008, 08:51:08 PM »

When my ship was out there we had a "minor incident".
A "fishing boat" decided to try and stop us to "inspect our papers".
What wasn't known was a detachment of Royal Marines complete with heavy personal weapons and live ammo were left on board.
1 RPG could be seen in the wheelhouse of the "fishing boat".
They radioed that they had made a mistake when 10 heavy machine guns and 2 rocket launchers were aimed directly at them.
They "retired", That was the fastest I had ever seen a fishing boat go.
We did have a good laugh though when the Royal Marines asked for permission to fire and was refused, weren't they disappointed!! Visibly so.

Bob
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dougal99

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2008, 08:58:16 PM »

One sure way to bring them to there knees.  Get Gordon Brown and his cronies to organise the finances, that should bring them up short  :-))




Actually

I second Q boats
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2008, 09:19:33 PM »

just send in a couple of Polaris and Trident subs, along with a few ohio's and Typhoons, and let rip the magic mushrooms and let us have Lake Somalia
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2008, 09:20:11 PM »

...in other words NUKE them!
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2008, 10:31:29 PM »

When I saw "pirates" on the forum list I thought someone had made a thread about solicitors.

Or bankers  :}

Peter
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Cargo

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2008, 11:59:22 PM »

The German frigate "Karlsruhe", on her way back home from the Persian gulf received an signal from the Egyptian merchantvessel "Andinet" about being attacked by two pirate speedboat. The frigate was sending her helicopter and the pirates stopped the attack and went away. Later the frigate received a signal from the British tanker "Trafalgar" also being attacked by pirates. Same here: helicopter sendet, and the pirates just broke up their attack. The German navy has to help in case of piracy but it is not allowed to use armed force. This law will be changed soon.

 But not only the pirates making their cut, the guys behind the scene in London or Dubai are taking the bigger slice of the cake. Lets hunt them to...  <*<
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Jimmy James

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2008, 03:10:21 PM »

Pirates of the Caribbean has a lot to answer for;  In romanticising Piracy in the public eye the press has blinkered people to the real threat to the seafarer; over 200 ships were pirated last year; some of these have completely vanished ;2 masters  and one chief officer and at least one engineering officer were shot or beaten to death; a lot of crew members [200+ ]have been imprisoned many beaten and robbed of personal possions;; Under international law they are not allowed to be armed. if they open fire or repel boarders they can be arrested ====if any of the pirates are injured, by the local government who often have a vested interest  Most of the Navies in the areas are too thin on the ground to do much and if it comes to a hostage situation----  do not have the trained personal or equipment on board to intervene without a blood bath.
as a foot note under ENGLISH law Piracy is one of the two things you can still be hung for.
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Jimmy James

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2008, 04:20:42 PM »

One or two small prob's sending nuclear sub's to find /fight pirates
1] most of them work in small fast motor boats 18 to 25 feet long armed with 1 or 2 RPG 7's with approx 8 to 10 reloads + at least 1 heavy machine gun + up to a doz AK 47's  Total speed 40-50 kts  total worth 6 or 7 000

Sub Le nth Approx 250m+; speed 30kts; armed with;  Torp's Yes approx 20  ICBMs Pos.bly up to 16; cruse missiles prob'ly up to 12;  harpoon missiles prob 8 to 10;.....Deck gun?? NO; machine gun pos. 1 light or med GMP; small arms a few pistols and maybe half a doz sub machine guns total worth ???Millions

So who Win's in a fight;.... unless he's completely stupid my money is on the motor boat to get clean away;  and if the sub is crazy enough to surface the motor boat can cause so much damage with RP-G's and machine guns that you might lose the sub or even have it captured.

The Q ships [not boats--SHIPS] in the 1st & 2nd WW were designers to sink Submarines

Freebooter [Jimmy]

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malcolmfrary

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Re: Pirates !
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2008, 04:50:39 PM »

Thirty or so years ago the pirates, (or their fathers) were subsistence fishermen.  Then the big boys turned up with fleets of big trawlers and emptied the fishing grounds, destroying the nets of the locals and occasionally running them down.  Their government, lacking both resources and any real authority, could do nothing.  So, wanting to eat, and having been taught by good teachers that crime does pay, they took to crime.  A bit like the robber barons who infested the Rhine valley in the middle ages, they extracted tribute from passing trade.  It seems that they spend freely when they collect, and a whole local economy has grown up.  The people running the area are the local warlords, and they benefit as much as anybody else around there, so there is no incentive to stop.
The punitive measures proposed will no doubt satisfy briefly, but they will not cure the problem. Chances are that unless huge resources can be piled in, they won't even keep the lid on it.  Most likely they will store up another generation of grudges to be worked out in the future.
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regiment

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pirates
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2009, 05:10:56 PM »

ive got the answer to  the pirates a couple of ex service blokes  two gpmg a few hundred rounds that would sort them out
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: pirates
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2009, 05:16:04 PM »

How come there shipping lines aren't hiring mercenaries security guards if you know you are entering known pirate waters?!?!?
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