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Author Topic: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions  (Read 9441 times)

TCC

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1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« on: November 24, 2008, 11:43:25 am »

Hi all
new here. I've built HMS LION and I'm a good 95% finished except for some doubts or nagging q's. Can anyone help?

My first is I want to put a meaningful flag signal in LIONs halyards... maybe an order from Beatty or something like that. Can anyone design such a signal for me and it be correct with no swearing or anything rude?

Next, what colour is the admirals barge LION carried? [is there anyone going to the IWM in London who fancies taking a camera there to photograph Norman Oughs LION model there? I believe it's on show.. and I remember seeing it there but didn't have a camera and can't remember what it was like. Things like his turret tops look a darker grey than mine.

Ron, have you fitted paravanes? Do you know how big the RN capital ship variant are? The secondary is wheer to put them? A 3rd is are they placed in some sort of cradle is just placed on deck behind that breakwater somewheres? Under 'A' turrets guns is a fave.. seen a few pix of them there. Are they man-size, bigger or what?

I'm actually looking for actual on-deck images of LION (or PRINCESS ROYAL at a push) I have the ones from 'Battlecruiers' by J Roberts and the pix of the damage to 'Q' turret after Jutland. I've also found a web sied view of the port side of the fore superstructure and a crew show taken on the foredeck looking aft while the crew have climbed on all the front bits. Other than that... zero... anyone seen any more or know anything? Anyone seen any big scale models? Just to see how others have done theres?

Ron, I see you picked out your IRON DUKE hull lettering in white? J Haynes did his Lord Nelson in gold... and I've followed him. Why did you choose white, if I can ask? I followed him thinking this may be Admiralty policy?

What is a 'balsa raft'? I've seen one on a (shipyard) model cruiser and I'm now looking at REPULSE lowering one from it's paravane davit on its foredeck. Is it a platform for men to work off?

LIONs 'spotting top' around th Juland period. There's a broad 'slit' between the roof and the body which is open (clear) in some images and blocked in oin others (and it's a full sillouette). Did it have glass in there or was it just canvas they rolled up/down?


A link to a similar forum that includes images: (long winded thread, sorry!)
http://modelwarshipsuk.informe.com/forum/battleships-and-cruisers-f20/1st-ww-capital-ship-q-s-hms-lion-t947.html

What the model looked like when I got it down recently: (not for the fastidiously clean... or those with asthma! :-))
http://modelwarshipsuk.informe.com/forum/post10863.html#p10863

Well that's all I can think of for now. Anyone with a build of the same era want toswap war stories? Anyone built LION or any of the LION class? Anyone want to offer any help, tips, advice? I promise you you won't be as harsh as I am on myself... I KNOW where all my mistakes and errors are... and I know it's not the neatest model ever made but it does look better in the real than they photos depeict it.

Thanks all, in anticipation...

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Ron1

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 10:25:25 pm »

I can not see your photo,s because im not registered to the site, a long story,  :-X
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Ron1

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 11:49:12 pm »

Hi , The name on my Iron Duke is in gold.
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Ron1

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 11:56:19 pm »

have a look at http://www.modelshipwrights.com

Features

battlships

Queen Mary.
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TCC

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2008, 01:17:31 pm »

Hi Ron
Thanks for that link... that's a lovely model.

Glad your IRON DUKE is in gold! ;-)

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victorian

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 03:29:27 pm »

Hello TCC

Thanks for your emails. I tried replying, but there is something up with the return address. I tried a PM, but I'm not sure that worked either. I've got a DVD for you if you can let me have your postal address.

David
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TCC

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I'll answer my own Q's.
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 02:26:30 pm »

My first is I want to put a meaningful flag signal in LIONs halyards... maybe an order from Beatty or something like that. Can anyone design such a signal for me and it be correct with no swearing or anything rude?

Next, what colour is the admirals barge LION carried? [is there anyone going to the IWM in London who fancies taking a camera there to photograph Norman Oughs LION model there? I believe it's on show.. and I remember seeing it there but didn't have a camera and can't remember what it was like. Things like his turret tops look a darker grey than mine.
These baots where painted to the admirals wishes, 2 people have told me this recently. So there is no official admiralty policy as such, however, that leave sopen the question of what colour they actually were?

Well one of these sources told me it was dark blue.

Ron, have you fitted paravanes? Do you know how big the RN capital ship variant are? The secondary is wheer to put them? A 3rd is are they placed in some sort of cradle is just placed on deck behind that breakwater somewheres? Under 'A' turrets guns is a fave.. seen a few pix of them there. Are they man-size, bigger or what?
I'm pretty sure paravanes where a foot or so taller than a man with the vanes? (wings) about the size of his arms out stretched. The diameter of the body about the size of our man. All the above is approx. that is

What is a 'balsa raft'? I've seen one on a (shipyard) model cruiser and I'm now looking at REPULSE lowering one from it's paravane davit on its foredeck. Is it a platform for men to work off?

LIONs 'spotting top' around th Juland period. There's a broad 'slit' between the roof and the body which is open (clear) in some images and blocked in oin others (and it's a full sillouette). Did it have glass in there or was it just canvas they rolled up/down?


Moderated - negative comments of other forum/s removed
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TCC

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 04:24:31 am »

Link to photos:

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/001-spanky/HMS%20LION/

Not every model carries its own toolkit!


It looked like this when I got it down from it's rest:


I've trashed it to this:


.. and made these for it:


I made these leadmans platforms and I think someone thinks I'm a knxb who doesn't know his axxe from his elbow. I KNOW what these platform are like, it's a very thin frame with a rope net to walk on. But this is a pond boat and anything over the ships side will sooner of later get twatted. Therefore, chasis of steel and as attractive as I could make 'em.


Saying that, I seem to be on a roll at making everything 3 times with the 3rd, a passable replica, so you never know, 2 more bits for the junk box?

The funnels look like they've been kicked round a workshop floor as I've now done them 3 times!! Those beeping vertical ropes will be the end of me.


very happy with the anchors and the cable holders (anchor hardware):


In the centre are 2 little grey things, they are sounding machines, from 11 to 2 clock is 2 of the bases for the cable holders, as accurate as anything, they just need more detailing once the white milliput (below the wheels) dries. The actual cable holder where lathed out of milliput on a hobby drill. They are nearly there but without a lathe and lathe tools...

The anchors are the best I could get them, scaled proper drawings down, got them working with proper working 'stops' stopping the flukes rotation (as in the real things) They're's 2 [can't think of their name at the mo.. a double barreled name] and one Byers 'Stream' anchor. That's a 2p.

There's 3 'Blake Slips' just above the 5p.

There's some bottlescrews, bold big old style in black (too big for the boat) and my new finer versions to our right of the 5p.

To the left of the 5p is some brailing davits and the davits for the quarterdeck. Above them is the chart table, some new cable reels, there's a 'brass' compass and 2 fittings that go atop the foremast that used to connect the stays, they were still there when the foremast supports where fitted, though now unrigged. (They're something else |I'll be re-doing as they are not like that.)

The 3 fittings between the tuppence and the anchors are the fittings that the anchor chain appears from, the grey pattern & 2 casts with 1 to go.

The turret castings aren't as bad as I feared, I thought I may have to cast them again [why not? I seem to be doing everything 3 times these days - sarcasm] I feared the round front to them was off-circle and they are slightly too long at the rear. Not so, the roundness is OK, I'd be looking at 1 that has it's axis pole off centre. Phew... I'll just cut the rear back, put a new rear on them and plate the tops with flat plastic and detail that.

I don't know what to do about new barrels yet, not having a lathe?

The 4 inch barrels I moulded in milliput.



The rear of the bridge is the real deal as far as looks go. That's how LION was. Normans plan, and everyone who's folowed it, is a bit wrong. It's actually wrong in a few places but he got an awful lot right and it's attractive enough to frame. Ferinstence, I think he drew Queen Marys cable holders and bases, LIONs look totally different but I'm blowed if I'm making them again.

The 'canvas' in the spotting top needs re-doing, I'll do that when get get decent info on what was behind the canvas and what was above the top?

NMM has loads on 'On Deck' shots of LION, from a balloon, from the bridge down at the bow, from the bow back again, etc, etc. Trouble is it's 20 a go for a 5x7!! IWM are not much better, a tenner for an A4 e-mailed to you.. not a hard-copy photo they'v printed, e-mail! Electronic form!!!

Oh, the little purple and brass fitting in the middle (where's the 2nd?) is a siren. Has anyone got a clear image of a capital ships siren as early to ww1 as poss?



The rudders, those arms are an inch long tip to tip and I've had to file the rears of th collars as they rubbed. No pre-bought stuff will fit in there, eh? The rudders spindles and collars are maccano bits. The same allen key does all the grub screws in the running gear.

I know there's a lot wrong with it, errors wise, and I know it's an untidy build, but it was built years ago when the smallest drill bit I had was 1/8th bit [that's why there's no oval sight-slits in the 4in barbettes!]. It was made in 93/95 ish and then I got fed up and my life changed. It's been on a wall since then with a rudimentary dust cover. I got it down to show someone just before xmas and decided to finish it. Looking at other battleship builds, and then mine, and then there's, and then mine again made me feel terrible as I CAN do better than that.. I just have to put my mind to it and have an image in my mind of what I'm working towards. Prior to the internet, I didn't have that.. just odd photos in model mags and photos of the actual ship (ship portraits from the IWM)

As for comercial fittings, well you got a series of lists from the model shop in Greenwich and the descriptions of parts where basic [4mm bass ladder, inclined, 25mm long. capstan, brass, 9mm. Anyone want any fittings off me?] That's why I went with such a odd-ball scale as I then thought well I won't be buying anything of anyone so I may as well.

It actually needs building again but I have to draw the line at surface details, as it is, one of the bridge platforms is wrong and it'd mean upsetting the nav lights and the searchlights they're connected to behind them. It's wider you see. [That'll be another 3rd change! Built, changed and changed again as more info came to light] And I'm not a 'rivet conter', I just want to build it to the best of my knowlwdge, the things I don't know or can't build, well that's it. I couldn't give a flying f what anyone else does with their plasticard and paint.. if they wanna join a big hull in 2 parts, more power to your engines bud... I didn't go that way myself. I hope it's sunny when you sail it. I'm breaking open built & painted plasticard as I KNOW it's wrong, and a few hours will fix it. It ->is<- within my power and abilities to do it so that's thw why.

There is truely some a'holes in the boating fraternity.
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RickF

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 10:12:00 am »

Ref Balsa Raft:

Also known as a "coppering punt", they were available in 10ft and 14 ft sizes.This is a drawing of a "14ft" one  (actually 13.5 ft!) from 1894. It's pinched from a book called The Boats of Men-of-War (W E May), which I can thoroughly recommend - provided you get the later edition (1999), which has more drawings.

Rick
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TCC

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2009, 10:49:17 pm »

Ref Balsa Raft:

Also known as a "coppering punt", they were available in 10ft and 14 ft sizes.This is a drawing of a "14ft" one  (actually 13.5 ft!) from 1894. It's pinched from a book called The Boats of Men-of-War (W E May), which I can thoroughly recommend - provided you get the later edition (1999), which has more drawings.

Rick

Hey Rick, thanks... so it does sound like a 'working platform'?

It's actually not something I have to make, I've just seen them on images and was curious of their purpose. Still, I've saved it on my 'navy fittings' disc. Plus someone else may find it useful.

Funnily, I never thought of googleing it, here's an image of one, and description of use, of Warrior's:

 'http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=138169
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TCC

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TCC

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What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2009, 01:01:35 pm »







The top of the mainmast (not sure it's proper name) The LED works up top of the mast, it's powered by the ladder and a thin copper wire up the side of the mast. It's a really, really fine wire, so fine the paint formed small balls along the surface (I painted bare wires to insulate them, that's the green and black paint)

What am I not happy with? Non-uniformity of the rigging: I'm using wire at the top and cord lower down.

Also, the rigging hlding the gaff? or yardarm? up is iffy and while it was set out like that, I'm sure the real ship didn't have end fittings like in the cords on this bit.

Would youstrip all the rigging off and do it again in home-made cord that will match the rest of the ship or leave this be as it is sorta on it's own at the rear/top. Painted, the untrained eye wouldn't notice the difference. It's about 5 hrs work!

To scale it, that's a 2mm wide ladder up the mast and the ring at the end of the gaff? (yard arm) is also 2mm dia.
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victorian

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 01:31:29 pm »

TCC

Regarding IWM photos, are you aware that the IWM photo library (In a house behind the museum) has a very extensive set of reference prints in large format that you can photo copy to your hearts content? You have to make an appointment to go there but I'm sure a call to the IWM enquiry desk would arrange that. Doubtless there would be many LION photos in their collection.

Does mean a trip to London of course, but the hospitable atmosphere there couldn't be more different to the dreadful NMM where I was almost frog-marched off the premises for producing a camera.

David
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TCC

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Update:
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2009, 03:20:44 pm »



See those awning supports? It's the wire supported every few mms? I've done them about 7 times before I hit on a method that wouldhold the wire every 4mm (or so) and hold it away from the side so glue or paint didn't fill it in. I'd tried everything, drilling hole and making Us of different thicknesses, I've had different thickness wire, I've glued it along and attached the 'supports' post-fixture and I've done them in wire, milliput, then plasticard, then I went with daps of epoxy along the wire intending to glue them on. They never even reached the boat... Then I tried plasticard bits with a hole in them for the wire. Non of them looked any good.

The last attempt that worked OK was I drilled holes along and fixed plasticard 'rod' on them. I then cut the rod to length and glued the wir along the tops of them. Voila...

Another view;



See the walkway between the 2 searchlights? You wouldn't believe the travails I've had there, also. Non of them images I've got show it clearly (don't go there!) and to cap it off, the plan puts the bit of a platform there at the wrong height. [plus the one behind the port side is also far lower] So that 'middle' piece (with the angle-iron moulding along the bottom) is about 1mm to wide, it should look like the lower one. But because this platfrom is too low, I've had to cover it with an extra mm of plasticard.

Yes, the ends look wrong to me also but the images do show one side sloped and the other straight (at a right angle) The right angled end appears supported by a web so I've done that only sited where I think they'd have been. I need to make 2 searchlight control positions for behind these lights... I think they look like a modern phone box... as in you stand there and face a wall and there's a bit of a wall either side of you. After that it's pure modellers license. :-) Mine look like a cross between a voting booth and a speak your weight machine. :-)

See the 2 prongs emerging from the lowest locker? They're my lights connections.. I simply slide the fore end of the aft s/structure into 2 slits in a deck hatch and the rear half of it presses home into a 'friction fitting'. I'm quite happy about how they work and it's far better than the springs pressing on those copper plates as in the old version.



My main armament. I'm pretty happy with the turret, the rangefinder casing still needs a touch of shaping which will mean re-squaring of the holes. They hoods look fine... but these bits get chopped and changed to suit each turret as there's slight differences. They also need ladders and stanctions added.

The edges to the top plates are recessed a bit and then I added 'rivet heads' in epoxy with a cocktail stick. They are slightly diff sizes, diff gaps, some mishaped, but I'm happy enough with them as it took 10 mins max.

The barrels are slightly more chunky than they should be but they impart a look of 'power'. I made them without a lathe. It's a ali tube that has a bore that's a good approximation to 1/12th of an inch, i.e 1 ft on the model and I'm after 13.5 ". I left this tube oversize so the turret end could go in a drill chuck.

I simply surrounded it with milliput, put the rear in a chuck and supported the muzzle with a round ftting (a pivot) and turned away with craft blades and a ruler. The blades soon blunt and are no good.. but I got my barrel. The muzzle to that first step is 2mm out ut I'll not loose sleep over that.

I aim to cast them in RT rubber and then take casts off them in resin. I'm looking for tips or a 'how to'. Someone is going to show me the 'hows' behind doing the rubber bit but I'd appreciate a primer on casting in resin, something I've not done to this level before.

They sit on my knocked up plans of QUEEN MARY.



The bridge part way through stripping. Next will be the guns, the searchlights, the nav light platform needs extending, the director needs doing again (which will probably entail that bit of a solid railing around it) and the spotting top 'top' is very different to how it is here.

I'm doing the windows in the upper most cabin by painting the walls (gloss) blue, I then covered the window positions with stickers and will build up the grey round them. When removed, I hope I'll have recessed shiney blue windows in tody rectangles. I've re-plated these walls on this level because of the untidy windows I did first time round. This has had repercussions elsewhere but I'll try to hide them.

See the big porthole? They are a left-over of when I very first started it and.. basically, I didn't have a clue. I'm trying to change them.. somehow.

I've said this before but I should actually start again and rebuild from the deck up but... I'm hoping I can make new gun shields and the indentation they sit in, with moulds, as there's only 2 esigns of this indentation. There's the type that point fore or aft and there's the type the points abeam. The only diff between them is the angle of the walls. But I can't make 2 moulds as I was hoping to include the blast shield in it and they'd be upside down on some of them.

I'm thinking of re-doing the torpedo nets and their rigging again, along with the outlet pipes along the hull sides. Mine are simply box sections glued on, however, I now see they are pipes with a '90 pipe fitting' like piece at the top. So I've made a piece that looks like a drainpipe and I'll cast that and re-do them and site them accurately as these are another thing that was chopped and changed in time.

Anyway.. I'm off to sand some milliput down.
Cheers
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victorian

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 04:47:12 pm »

Here's a searchlight photo I chanced across:



It's on the wreck of HMS Russell, the same ship of which the builder's model is in the IWM. The pic is from this site which has footage of many wrecks including Queen Mary!
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TCC

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 05:28:41 pm »

Hi dave
the base is close but my searchlights have a 'C' bracket from the side, not underneath like the above. But I'll keep the actual light bit in mind as that's got a fitting that goes from the 'rectangle' under it into the light.

Actually, that base looks like these things denoted by the '?' marks:


Cheers mate
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TCC

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2009, 12:15:48 pm »

Just thought I'd update the thread showing the latest bits.

I'm quite happy with the turrets, the rivets on the roof plates don't look bad, they're not finished yet as the roof needs painting but they have all the ladders and railings fixed. This is 'B' turret and I put it in 'X' mount for the image:



Same but this is 'X' turret in 'A' mount:


I've now done the 4 inch mounts and not just a panel pin sticking out of a gunshield. ;-)


The anchors, remade in white metal and a bit bigger than the black versions:


There's also the twin searchlight 'kit', I just need to put the LEDs in them and pour some resin in for the 'lens', there's also a wm casting of the plates where the anchor chain emerges from the deck (don't knowwhat they're called?) Pretty happy with them.


This is an image of a WM casting of one of the mushroom vents, not happy with the way some of them lined up in the mould, I put them in a drill and 'lathed' them. Jeez... theycame up really good! I then did them all.


The last few are general views along the hulls side showing the 'plating' done with paper PVAed on. Took me best part of 5 days to plan that plating. The majority of the hull is one long armour belt and I simply applied the 'out' strakes outboard of that. The bad part about using 'paper' is I've had to drill through it for hatches and portholes and it's not a clean edge... I'm not that happy with the portholes but 'hey ho' as they say.

The majority of the piping, etc, is added to this side now, I just need to add portholes at bow & stern and some small brackets for the accomodation ladders:





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victorian

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2009, 12:53:42 pm »

Glad to see the update TCC but no photos visible here ...
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TCC

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2009, 01:23:17 pm »

Hiya Dave
soz about that... I haven't sent the disc as the scanning isn't complete and I think it needs all of it.

Just thought I'd update the thread showing the latest bits.

I'm quite happy with the turrets, the rivets on the roof plates don't look bad, they're not finished yet as the roof needs painting but they have all the ladders and railings fixed. This is 'B' turret and I put it in 'X' mount for the image:

Same but this is 'X' turret in 'A' mount:


There's ammunition davits for the roofs of some turrets not fitted yet.

I've now done the 4 inch mounts and not just a panel pin sticking out of a gunshield. ;-)


I went with WM for the barrels as I can bend any bent straight again, the gunshields will be resin as it's easier to machine the sighting ports.

The anchors, remade in white metal and a bit bigger than the black versions:


I'm making a keyring from one. Does anybody need any? They're 17mm wide, 33 long and the flukes are 16mm long?


There's also the twin searchlight 'kit', I just need to put the LEDs in them and pour some resin in for the 'lens', there's also a wm casting of the plates where the anchor chain emerges from the deck (don't knowwhat they're called?) Pretty happy with them.



This is an image of a WM casting of one of the mushroom vents, not happy with the way some of them lined up in the mould, I put them in a drill and 'lathed' them. Jeez... they came out so good I then did them all. You can'r eally see them in this image but they are clean and 'square' and level!



The last few are general views along the hulls side showing the 'plating' done with paper PVAed on. Took me best part of 5 days to plan that plating as my hull is 2x 12ths to high... that's a scale 2 feet. It threw the plating! I've had to jiggle it and it's a good 80% correct. The majority of the hull is one long armour belt and I simply applied the 'out' strakes outboard of that. The bad part about using 'paper' is I've had to drill through it for hatches and portholes and it's not a clean edge... I'm not that happy with the portholes but 'hey ho' as they say.

The pink paper is card as some strakes had to be thicker than it's neighbouring paper strake. I used card. For paper, I used an old letter (taking being green too far?)

The majority of the piping, etc, is added to this side now, I just need to add portholes at bow & stern and some small brackets for the accomodation ladders:






The piping along the hull is mainly 90 elbows, they simply fitted lengths of hose below them and that kept the stains off the hulls side. Then during her life, she must have had new bathrooms, etc, fitted as if they've needed to vent something, they've just drilled the plating above the thick armour and ran a pipe through and down the hull. These pipes had a sort of casing over them. They're the shiny things... these are made with ali foil... I had to pack out the insides of them as they'd have got bshed in in use. I just used epoxy.

The 3 bits of masking tape by the bow is to apply a plating edge (joint?) on 3 inner stakes... I'm building it up in paint.

I didn't plate below the waterline.. though I may add something aroud the bilge keels, 'A' frame, etc. That frame on the stem is looking non-naval the more I look at it. INVINCIBLE? INDEFATIGABLE? (SUNK AT jUTLAND) has the same shape stem but hers is solid down there. J Haynes Lion is likewise. I wouldn't mind so much but that has got metal reinforcing driven right into the hull. I may just fill that rame withplasticard or something. Anyone ever seen anything like it on a RN ship?

Also, has anyone ever seen the vilet-mid grey colourin below the waterline instead of the 'red lead'?

Sorry about the images, I lost the links when 'timed out' doing some editting. Took me 2 hours to do this post after uploading the images, etc.
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Edward Pinniger

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2009, 01:47:19 pm »

Excellent work on the fittings + castings - the 4" gun mounts look very good, I've tried doing some metal + resin casting myself to replicate fittings but haven't had
much success with complex parts like this. A while ago I made some 6-pounder guns for a 1/96 1900s destroyer (HMS Velox) and ended up casting them as a "kit" with seperate barrel, mount, pedestal and shoulder rest, rather than a single casting - they turned out OK this way.

One other question - apologies if it's been asked before - what scale is your model?
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dreadnought72

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2009, 01:53:19 pm »

That frame on the stem is looking non-naval the more I look at it. INVINCIBLE? INDEFATIGABLE? (SUNK AT jUTLAND) has the same shape stem but hers is solid down there. J Haynes Lion is likewise. I wouldn't mind so much but that has got metal reinforcing driven right into the hull. I may just fill that rame withplasticard or something. Anyone ever seen anything like it on a RN ship?

Warspite has it - isn't it a tacked-on assembly to the stem casting that's used to feed the paravane leads through?

I might be wrong.

Andy
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Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Colin Bishop

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2009, 02:01:06 pm »

Yes, it's a bracket used to rig the paravane gear which was streamed out on either side of the ship with cutters to slice through moored mine cables. They then bobbed to the surface where they could be dealt with - frequently by gunfire.

Colin
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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2009, 05:00:04 pm »

Excellent work on the fittings + castings - the 4" gun mounts look very good, I've tried doing some metal + resin casting myself to replicate fittings but haven't had
much success with complex parts like this. A while ago I made some 6-pounder guns for a 1/96 1900s destroyer (HMS Velox) and ended up casting them as a "kit" with seperate barrel, mount, pedestal and shoulder rest, rather than a single casting - they turned out OK this way.

One other question - apologies if it's been asked before - what scale is your model?
Hiya Edward, the scale in 1:144. Thanks for the compliment.

Yes, white metal is a tricky thing to work with. Especially if you don't have the centrifugal thingies... so what I tried to 'force' the WM down those narrow holes is I dropped it from a height. It's messy and you have to be careful but I drop the liquid metal down a empty toilet roll tube.. that keeps the splases within the roll.

I also found it helpful is the actual mould was as near to the 'hopper' or 'well' as possible. So no long paths for the WM to cool on it's way to the mould area.

Yes, the 4" look well... it looks a bit sad there as it's sat uneven on the bench... and a lot of the detial doesn't make it onto the casts as it does with resin. I have to say though,this is my firt go with it and I'm learning what's possible or not. Actually, you won't even see them on the finished model unless you look in the shelter decks at certain angles.
 
I'm now trying to cast small pulley wheels, 2mm wheel with 7mm long wire sheaf. I have to loosen the mould halves to allow the wm into all the 'wire' spaces but this causes mucho flash and fills in the open spaces in the sheaf. They come out fine in resin but one tug or knock on the 'rope' will break the things on the completed model.

I'm also trying to do radial davits, they are 1/16th rod bent and sanded with the bits added. They are about 38mm high. I'm not sure if I'll get complete casts of these being so thin. What I'll try if I can't is to carve a 'hle' at the end of the davit.. a big void as the WM likes to have somewhere to go like that. That way, I'm hoping that as the metal fills that void, it will also fill out the mould it's just traveled through

I should put photos of the moulds up to debate the best practices and do's and don'ts... see if there's more to learn. I'm sure there is.

cheers
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Niall

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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2009, 05:14:39 pm »

A couple of tips on white metal casting -
The first is to use a large pour channel in the mould, this gives a large volume of metal to apply weight and to increase the time it takes the wetal to cool so it will flow all the way into the corners of the mould.

The second is if a corner or raise detail does not come out, drill through the mould with a 1/1.5mm drill at the area the mould does not cast properly. If this is done grip the mould in a couple of pieces of 18th plywood the size of the mould.
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Re: 1st WW battlecruiser (LION) questions
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2009, 05:35:14 pm »

Warspite has it - isn't it a tacked-on assembly to the stem casting that's used to feed the paravane leads through?

What's hers like? Is it like 'mine' or INVINCIBLES as in the photo below? The plan has an 'empty' frame but I think there's more evidence that the forefoot was solid...



Thanks

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