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Author Topic: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise  (Read 44482 times)

tigertiger

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Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« on: November 29, 2008, 02:14:19 AM »

I am in the planning stage of my first scratch build. Louis Heloise a French bautier.
I live in China so many orthodox methods may not be open to me, as there is a lot materials etc. that I have been unable to find here. So I will have to 'make do' and bodge. I am also a bodger by nature.

I have the plans from Traplet. And copies of the MM articles.

I get the impression that this is a 'fair wind' boat. As the ballast is internal I figure she will heel over a lot.
Does anybody know if my assumption is correct?

If so, I plan to insert a drop keel into the main keel, where the lead would have been installed if I were using internal ballast.
This is a hollow section of the keel.

I plan to make up the keel by sandwiching different layers of plywood together, and leaving a hole in the middle. As an alternative to one thick piece of ply, and cutting the keel slot.
Does anybody have any advice on sandwiching ply for the keel?

Like I say, I am at the planning stage, so any advice is most welcome.

I also welcome any alternative methods people have dicovered along the way.
To give you an idea. I cannot find white grease here. I needed it for a thumb nut on a sailboat, and do not want black grease everywhere. I thought about vaseline (petroleum jelly), but I can't find any here. In the end I used some lip balm.

Regards Mark
aka TT
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boatmadman

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2008, 06:25:23 AM »

Mark,

When you sandwich ply, put a layer of glass cloth between when you epoxy - increases strength.

Why not think of a bolt on keel made of perspex? Sink a couple of threaded nuts into the keel and use stainless bolts, that way is easy to fit/replace and doesnt change the visual image of the boat.

Ian
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2008, 07:24:35 AM »

...Sink a couple of threaded nuts into the keel and use stainless bolts...

Hi Boatmadman
How do you acieve a water tight seal?

I have something similar where the keel box is below the water line, but a wingnut is used and a piece of sheet rubber acts as a seal/washer.
Or are the nuts nyloc?
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boatmadman

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2008, 01:18:39 PM »

Err, dunno, never done it myself, it was just a thought!

I guess you could cut a slot of some sort in the keel, glue in the nuts with epoxy and re seal on the inside with epoxy and cloth?

Ian
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2008, 01:30:56 PM »

OK thanks. I shall think around that.

Thanks agian for input. I will definatley sandwich the glass.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 06:26:48 AM »

OK this bodgers build has now begun.
This is my first scratch build, so I will be using all sorts of non-approved methods. But as the original designer of the boat, Andre Moreau said, 'do it your own way'.

The months of mulling things over have ended and I have made a few decisions about the model.
-It will be at the original planned scale of 1/10. I have put aside plans of a 1/6 scale for now due to the cost of 16kg of lead.
-This will be a stand off model.
-Working boats are not yachts, I will not be aiming at perfection of finish of anything.
-I will where possible use materials at hand, sourcing the 'right stuff' is a problem in China.

Variations from the plan.
-It will have a drop keel. Where I live the wind can get up very quickly and I want to sail in all conditions.
-It will be motorised. The wind can also drop to nothing, and motor can also help bring her about across the wind.
-It may have an additional sail winch, as I will be sailing in stronger winds than the original model (as planned) could cope with.
-Rigging will be modified for ease of breaking down.

The builders board is glued and drying as I write. I will continue again on Monday.
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 09:39:53 AM »

Good luck with the build Mark, at least with "bodging" nothing can go wrong, as there is no right way to do it in the first place.
Pics when you can   :-))
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 10:35:57 PM »

Hi Mark,

Good luck with the build.

Going back to your add on keel. How about bonding two threaded studs into your laminated keel extension. The protruding ends passing through two tubes firmly fixed within the boat. If the tubes terminate well above the waterline, surely this will stop the ingress of water. The keel extension can then be secured in position with wing nuts

By only having the tubes bonded within the hull you will be able to change the size/style of keel extension if reqd.

Regards
longshanks

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MCR

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 11:45:28 PM »

For what it is worth I have built this model and sailed for over 2 years in a wide range of weather conditions these are my observations:
A droprudder is essential a drop keel is not
With 20lbs of lead the boat sails best in a steady but strong wind,
You need to think ahead when sailing as this is a big lump
I have a number of photos in sail which I will post tomorrow
All the best
Mark

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MCR

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 11:54:07 PM »

Found them
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MCR

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 11:56:11 PM »

And more
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 01:55:58 AM »

Thanks for the input guys,
and the photos.

Ref the keel.
My plans are.

The laminated boat keel will be hollow, and the drop keel will slot in. It will then have bolts going horizontally through both. I indend to set a nut into the boat keel on the far side. This will be for speed/ease of assembly, and allows for interchangable keel lengths if needed.
I know there will be some drag, but this is not a racing yacht and a boat this beamy has drag  ok2

I thought about using the vertical nut, I have one on my other boat (below the waterline no probs) but it is fidly and difficult to get to. Also this part of the boat is where the radio tray will be, so a tube up to the deck may not be straight forward.

I want to keep the ballast weight close to the recommended 4kg. As you say MCR, with 20lbs you need to plan your sailing.

I will be compromising on rigging and detail as I want this boat to be usable daily. Ease of use will be the primary concern with this model.
For example, my keel will be 21-22mm wide, this is 3mm wider than standard. It suits the materials I have and will be extra strong.
- 9mm core
- 6mm sides
- thin layer of glass to sandwich.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 01:58:40 AM »

Questions on the sails and running rigging for MCR.
How is the sail setting on this model? The MM article by Andre Moreau suggests it is not too good.
Did you modify any of the running rigging?
Are you using only 1 sail winch? If so, is this adequate?

Hope you can advise
Mark
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2009, 11:17:09 AM »

Well the builders board is finished. And yes I will be building the model 'right way up'. Goodness knows what possessed me, but at least it shows the alternate way of hull building.

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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2009, 11:45:06 AM »

Before I start the keel I need to estimate where the drop keel will go. This is so I can leave a slot in the boat keel for the drop keel.

To place the drop keel in its proper place I need to find the centre of lateral resistance (CLR) and then centre of resistance of the drop keel needs to be in line with this.

I will not be able to find the CLR until the hull is complete, but by making some assumptions I have guestimated the position of the CLR, I have then allowed for a slot for the drop keel. The drop keel slot is wider than needed and the actual drop keel can be trimmed later match the actual CLR.

Getting the CLR sorted is one of the things needed if a boat is to handle well.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2009, 12:14:18 PM »

To estimate the CLR

Assumption, on a well balanced boat the CLR is close to the vertical line passing through the centre of pressure (C of P) of the sails.

The CofP I have considered to be the same as the centre of area of the sails when sails are close hauled (pulled in to the centre line of the boat).

I took an enlarged copy of the sail plan as shown in a magazine article. I mounted this on cardboard, cut it out and then found the centre of gravity of the cardboard by suspending it from three points and dropping a vertical line with a plumbob.

The centre of gravity of the carboard should be the centre of area of the cardboard and hence of the sails. This was then transferred and marked on the plan. A vertical line was then dropped to the datum line on the plan. I then measured 10cm either side and this is the line of my drop keel.

With a 20cm (8") wide drop keel I can I hope easily trim it to match the true CLR when I establish it.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2009, 12:41:32 PM »

Next I took tracing paper and traced the keel outline. I will not be making the keel from cut pieces of timber as per the plan.

I then traced the pattern onto plywood.
I will be sandwiching 3 layers of ply with some fiberglass tissue and resin for strength. I should be using FG mat, but I don't have any and have not found any in my neck of the woods (yet).

The ply was then roughly cut to about 2cm from the line. After the sandwiched keel is set I will trim it all together to make life easy.
There was one exception. The inside edges of the keel slot were cut to the line.

I also drilled some holes so that the cut pieces can be aligned for gluing.

Gluing up tomorrow. Today I clean up first.
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2009, 02:32:50 PM »

I'm looking forward to this! Excellent stuff, tigertiger.

You might want to arrange it that the CoP is slightly aft of the CLR, as in most sailing craft. This'll provide a small amount of weather helm which would mean the boat will want, under neutral rudder, to turn into the wind.

AndyG
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2009, 02:36:44 PM »

Hi Andy

Thanks for that.  :-))
At the moment it is only a guestimate, the true CLR will be found when I get the hull in the water, I will just aim not to upset it with the keel. If the CLR is not just aft of the CofP I can easily tweek the drop keel to achieve this.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2009, 01:19:23 PM »

Well no glassing done today. We have had torrential rain and with the heat the humidity is up above 70% some resins don't like this. I will see if the aircon in the workshop takes the humidity down significantly.

One advantage of working slowly, especially as I am learning as go, is time to ponder.
On looking at the plans again I saw I had forgotten about the propshaft and rudder tube.

The motor and prop were held up to the plan and the location of the proptube through the keel was marked and this was then transfered to the core of the keel using tracing paper.
I will cut out a space for the prop, from the rudder. I may need to increase the rudder size.
I have done this as I was advised that in the event of a major problem/blocked prop etc, the rudder will get trashed, and not the boat.
I need to find out if I have planned enough clearance for the prop from the keel. I will do this on another board.

The location of the prop tube was also marked on the keel's core.

The core of the keel was then cut to allow positioning of the proptube and rudder tube. And the propshaft and rudder tube test fitted.

The propshaft has a bit of waggle (8mm tube in 9mm ply) that can be packed with a little fibreglass tissue.
The rudder tube is only 5.5mm, and so will need packing with thin strips of wood to keep it central.

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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2009, 01:38:41 PM »

When doing this I noticed that I will need to precut some areas, to the line, before gluing.

This is needed to prevent fouling of the metal parts when gluing, and damaging them by cutting when final shaping the keel.
Well that is something learned today.
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longshanks

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2009, 09:53:31 PM »

Hi Mark,

I'm enjoying this thread - keep it up.

A thought for the future - I hope I'm helping. Don't know if you've come across this in your previous builds but the angle of the rudder stock to servo will require some thought.

longshanks
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2009, 02:44:07 AM »

Hi Longshanks.

I have thought about this and you are right, it is a tricky one.

I have two options
Option A is a ball jointed connection, but if this is too tight;
Option B is a flexible control cable, as used in model aircraft. It behaves like a brake cabel, inner core and outer sleeve.

Hopefully I have it cracked. :-))
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boatmadman

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2009, 09:05:47 AM »

Option B should work well, I have used this method to turn the cables through 90 deg with success.

Ian
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2009, 01:19:16 PM »

I didn't get much done the last few days, I have been playing with glue.

None of this does what is says on the tin malarky here. Notice two different manufacturers.
I took some old two part epoxy glue into a shop I have found in this new city of residence.
I said I wanted the same. They assured me that this stuff is the same, but that does not mean anything here.

So what I did was I made a test batch and let it go off for 24 hours.
Tin one is half full, tin two is full.
Tin two smells like stale digestive biscuits, so I think it is epoxy.

It seemed to have gone off OK after 24 hours, although not rock solid.
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