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Author Topic: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise  (Read 46168 times)

boatmadman

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2009, 10:39:04 AM »

I think the need for transitional pieces depends entirely on the hull profile. I used tepered planking on a 1m yacht hull, the transom is small, although not squared at the bilge, it curves nicely. I didnt need any transition pieces for it.

I will get a pic of it later so you can see how it looks.

Ian

Pics here, first one shows mid section of the hull, planks at 10mm width, the others show the bow and stern, hope you can see the taper in the planks. There is the same number of planks running from bow to stern.

This hull is mid way through a refurb having been rubbed down and put on the shelf for a later date :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2009, 03:18:50 AM »

Well on revisiting the build today I found she had spring a plank in a couple of places.

I know the reason for this. I have seen written that if you use CA and PVA together, you get an instant tacking of the component from CA and a more solid bond from the PA after it goes off. This did not work for me. The PA seems to have gone soft and pliable, too soft.

I also found that there are many ways you can try to use clamps when planking. Some ways more successful than others. But I read on here that using masking tape works best. I doubted this until I tried it. It is very effective. So I binned the clamps and got more masking tape out. It is actually quicker and easier to use as well  :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2009, 03:27:29 AM »

Attaching additional planks is easy.

First, use tape to hold the next plank in the rough position needed.

Then attach the forward end to the stem post of the keel, I used CA. Pin and brace with tape.

After this, work back along the frames towards the stern. First gluing and then bracing as you go.

To make things more secure I used brass pins at the stem and at tha last frame I attached to (frame 10). Having a pin pusher helps a lot.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2009, 03:38:01 AM »

Oops! Mishap, but not a disaster.

When pinning the front end of the fourth plank, the plank snapped and the pin pusher also went through and broke the third plank.
And so I had to remove the third plank and replace it.

The other thing I have learned.
By sheer chance the first few planks I cut were not good. The grain was awkward and the planks did not bend naturally. Because of this I used heat to bend them. By heating them they seem to have lost flexibility, and although bent now, this bend is a little rigid, uneven, and not a natural curve.
Later planks are much more supple, the grain is going in the direction of the plank more. They form nicely around the frames.
The result is that the heat bent planks do not line up well with each other, or with the unheated planks. This will increase the amount of sanding filling required.
The unbent planks line up nicely and will require less sanding.
I may go back and remove the first (heat bent) planks and replace them. A set back but it will probably save time in the long run.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2009, 06:15:52 AM »

One more question was left hanging from before.
What to do about the transom.

In the MM article the author (the original designer) says he had problems with transom area and used plywood. I was not sure what he meant by the use of ply, at the time of reading. But now I think I understand.

After offering up the second plank, to the hull, it is clearer what needs to be done.
I think I will tackle the transom like this, applying some of the advise given above.

Firstly, cut a piece of square stock wood from my timber. I will use the same timber as the planks. If I used my balsa stock it would be too soft and cause problems when sanding.
This piece of square timber will then be shaped to fit the curve between hull sides and transom corner (and bottom).
I may also add some longrons.

After this, I will use a skin of thin ply (maybe two layers) bent to fit around the curve under the transom area. The frames will not need to be rebated, as I will simply run a 1-2mm square batton inside the edge of the frame to support the ply.
A substitute for ply, that is waterproof, could be CA soaked card. The use of longrons would support this.

This method will leave a line of planks cut at the same point. This is not ideal, but I don't really have a lot of choice as my skills at planking are limited.
However I don't think it will matter a lot for two reasons. Firstly, I can fill and sand the gap. Secondly, it is in an area of the hull that would not really be seen unless the boat is inverted (and then I will be worrying about more than aesthetics  %) )

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derekwarner

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2009, 07:37:06 AM »

TT.......

1) your PTC 116 - the turn of the bilge plank positioned as such will require a huge fearhering requirement of planks in the vertical plane & you would require mid frame blocking to get the tapered planks secured...it is more comon to raise that lower plank & have the majority of the feathering...'lower & under'

2) your PICT0133 - you must position the planks firmly & accurately against the rebate in your bow riser & then trim the plank length at the appropriate hull frame

3) your slide 1 & slide 2....is  :-)).....this is what I termed as blocking in

4) Could I suggest you review the current Burbon Orca build in Working Vessels........ by Ian........he is a little more progressed & is following those cardinal rules I had mentioned

5) Do you intend to leave the planking exposed [under polyurathane or the like?].....if so some pretty hard sole searching is required  :-X

Please remember I am not a  :police: .......ar a  %% .....we just want to be constructive in line with your goals......................Derek  O0
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2009, 07:54:26 AM »

Hi Derek
Thanks for the feedback  :-))

Ref Pic 133
I know what you mean. This is one of the planks that was bent with heat, and it kept moving. It just did not want to fit.
I am thinking of replacing the first two planks (the heat bent ones), as the wood was unluckily the lowest quality two planks. Sods law it was the first two I cut. Never having cut or used this timber before I was none the wiser.
Worst case I will fill the gap at the front of the plank.

I will be painting the hull. I am not a big fan of natural wood finish on models, unless it was seen on the prototype. You see it on some yachts and launches and looks ok.
But not on a working boat.
I am not looking for a perfect finish, some planking visible is something I want. Even if only to stop the ruddy Chinese from telling me it is a bought FG hull.

I will have another look at the Bourbon Orca.
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andrewh

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2009, 12:33:56 PM »

TT

Quite a learning experience - she will be great!

As you say a bit of the planking as evidence under the paint is nice - just like the prototype.
Forgive me you have already said - are you stripping the planking from what is available locally?  the appears to be pretty good, but a bit short in the grain, to judge by the pin-push damage.

It does you credit that you just exclaimed "bother" when that happened :}
I don't know if Polyurethane glue is common in china - I would have thought so, because its much used in building to join anything to wet concrete.  Not easy to make a perfectly neat job with it (because it foams well) but quick drying and perfectly waterproof.  But I would agree with your white glue for planking.

Keep sharing, please
andrew

btw your transom plan looks practical - the ply would follow this well, but how about fitting the structure (corners and supports) first on the lower side of the overhang, then the ply (1.32nd?) then plank ther upper level down to the ply edge.  Should make it easier to get a smooth transition
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2009, 07:42:42 AM »

With reference again to the low quality of the first two planks.
As I said before these were the first two planks I ever cut myself and did not realise the quality issue, until afterwards when I had cut and fitted better planks.

You can see the difference in the grain of the planks in this photo.

You can also see there are gaps between the planks. This is even more prevalent where the planks curve in more direction around the buttocks. But I am not concerned. I assume that real boats had this, hence caulking, and I will be using filler.
I will also use resin and mat on the inside. I may also have to use FG tissue on the outside, which I had not planned on.

This is a model of a working boat remember. I am not after a superlight racing hull, and being down in the water does make for a more impressive looking wake.

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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2009, 07:53:12 AM »

Progress is slower now. I have had a few visitors.

Additionally, I can only really do one plank on each side per day, because of the clamping and gluing of wood under tension/torsion.
As the curves got more complex I had to revert to using clamps, as well as more pins and a thicker grade of CA.

I also realised that I need to trim some of the plank ends, while I can still get the saw in. I will then continue planking and cut/trim from the other direction.

Only a couple of more planks on each side and then I will start planking up from the bottom of the hull.


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boatmadman

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2009, 08:35:07 AM »

TT,

Great progress, its looking real good.

Re gaps between the planks, this isnt a problem if you are going to paint a hull, as, like you said, use of filler gets over this. Unless you bevell each edge of the planks as they meet, you will often get little gaps.

If you are going to glass and tissue inside the hull, you probably wont need tissue on the outside, a couple of coats of resin will be ok. I suggest you use a thin skimming resin on the outside, and after the first application, go over it with a plastic scraper (an old credit card or similar), to take off excess, this will help work the resin into the wood and avoid any runs.

Ian
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #61 on: August 05, 2009, 08:37:45 AM »

Cheers for the tip Ian.  :-))

Now I have to find some thin resin  {-)
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2009, 08:48:18 AM »

While I am doing the planking I am doing a couple of other tasks simultaneously.

First one of these is the rudder. I need the rudder to be ready when the hull is finished. This way I can check the line of lateral resistance (see above, but more on this when the time comes).

Because of the choice to add a prop, with shaft built into the keel, my rudder needs to be redesigned.

First step was to trace out a new profile for the rudder. I used electrical tape (red) to hold down the tracing paper, as electrical tape is low tack and won't tear the plan when removed.

The mouth in the rudder for the prop may seem high. But this was needed. Length L2 (The gap between the propshaft and the top of the mouth) must be greater than L1(the length of inner rudder tube above top of rudder). This is to allow enough room for the rudder to be fitted/removed.

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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #63 on: August 05, 2009, 09:00:54 AM »

This pattern was traced onto two pieces of 9mm ply, and the pieces cut out.

Then, the two halves of the rudder were then put together and pinned. This is to allow shaping to remain symmetrical. And at the moment there is still one square and straight side. It will not remain square but must remain straight.

Next, I started shaping the front (leading) edge of the rudder only. The picture shows the roughed out leading edge, but it still needs work to ensure the rudder can turn without jambing on the stern post.

The process of shaping and assembling is not straight forward, but there is a logic that will become apparent as we go along.
But that is it on the rudder for now.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #64 on: August 05, 2009, 09:26:38 AM »

The other task was making a template for the deck beams, to get the deck camber.

I first copied a part of the plan showing the deck camber and glued it to scrap ply.
I then covered it in plastic (acetate sheet) to prevent things sticking to the board.

Next I used large pins/small nails to using three strips of scrap planking, decided the upper and lower limits of the deck curve and put the nails.
These 3 nails will act as a former.

After this I put the three planks into the former, doused liberally in liquid/thin CA, clamped, and retired due to the fumes. I worked out on the balcony for this one.

When dry I had a nice template that I will use when scribing out the deck beams. I am tempted to actually use the former to make deck beams, but several of these beams do not run between the hull formers.

I also put the template in place on the widest part of the beam to get an impression of where the deck line will be.
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herrmill

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2009, 11:14:12 AM »

Look very good!  :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2009, 05:57:43 AM »

Last time I had managed to do some planking on the bottom of the boat.
This was quite gappy in places, but as I said fibreglass, resin, and filler will sort this (I hope).


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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2009, 06:00:19 AM »

Now she is flipped I can continue planking from the keel down.
Remember that there is a slot cut into the stem post (front of keel) to accept planks. For the first two planks this slot is horizontal and then near horizontal. For this reason I did not start fixing these two planks from the stem to stern. I roughly lined up the front of the plank (so that it was too long) and fixed from about frames 3 and 4 first. Then I worked forward.
At the stem I slowly cut and filed the plank to fit, this was a process of trial and error.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2009, 06:03:48 AM »

When fixing the second plank I let the plank follow the contours of the frames out to the stern post. This means there is a wedge shaped gap to fill with planks. I chose to let this happen at the second plank. This is going to happen anyway, but doing it now allows me to plank onto the flat surface of the keel. Easy.

Doing this I needed to shape the planks so that they narrow. I have not cut the planks so that they will end on a frame as they do in real life, forming planks called stealers. Carefully marking and cutting the planks to fit was much easier than I have anticipated, and the scrap piece was also used to take up the remaining space.

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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2009, 06:07:40 AM »

I have now found the best way to plank is using pins. BUT I didn’t have enough. This is why I was using tape. Brass pins will actually work out cheaper than using tape, as well as being more reliable. I have a mate coming over from UK in two weeks had he will bring pins.

NB If you are going to buy pins, don’t buy them by the packet (50/100), buy them in their hundreds, because that is the quantity they will be used in. I am now a bit stuck until the pins arrive. However there are lots of other jobs to be getting on with.

I wanted to source locally, but could not. I could have used bamboo trenails, but I am too lazy.

Planking to date is below.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #70 on: August 12, 2009, 06:11:05 AM »

Something I forgot to show before.

Before the keel was put in the building cradle, and before the frames were attached, provision was to bolt on the removable drop keel.

Holes drilled in the keel, horizontally. These holes were then lined with tubing. The aim of lining is that  the screws used will with time cut into the resin protecting the wood.
I lined the holes with the tube I had available. I would have liked to have used brass tube, but I did not have any. The tubes were fixed with resin.

I also countersunk two M6 nuts into the far side of the keel, and glued them in place. This means that on the dockside I only have to worry about fiddling with the M6 screws, and not the nuts as well. A one handed job now.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #71 on: August 12, 2009, 06:45:20 AM »

Last time I worked on the rudder it had been left with just the 'leading edge' shaped.

I next cut a slot in the edge to take the rudder tube. This was done with a table saw.

The rudder tube was fitted the full length of the rudder, even though the centre section will be removed. I did this to avoid alignment issues. It may seem wasteful, but I will use the odd bit, and it was easier for me.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #72 on: August 12, 2009, 07:07:15 AM »

Because the lengths of tube that meet the rudder, compared to the overall length of the rudder, I decided they needed to be strengthened.

This was done by sandwiching fibreglass (FG) mat between the two (9mm ply) halves of the rudder and around the rudder post. This was then glued with resin and clamped.

After it had dried, it was trimmed, cleaned, shaped, and then tried for size in its location.

After some further trimming, to ensure it rotates freely, it fitted well.

I feel another shopping trip coming on for materials. I will try to find some thin resin (for finishing) and some 20mm ID brass tube (for the mast tube).
Shopping is always an adventure. There is no Yellow Pages for these small traders, and I am searching a city with an urban population of 3.7 million people. The people who would know where to find stuff don’t speak English. Those who do speak English are not the kind of people to ‘know’ workers.
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derekwarner

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #73 on: August 12, 2009, 10:38:17 AM »

Hi tt...I think you have a flat spot about frame 7....please see the attachment............ :-)) ...I have experienced a few difficulties in posting this....... >>:-( I took your image...sent to Paint...added a few lines & text.... then the system would not allow the .extension as the attachment ..........so I have renamed it as .jpg & hope it works .....Derek

OK...yes it works :D.....I am guessing that frame 7 on the Stdb side in the marked up area is say 1.5 mm too low....the Port side in the same area of frame 7 only say 0.5 mm too low
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #74 on: August 12, 2009, 12:30:55 PM »

Hi Derek

You are probably right. %)
This is, I think, a product of building the model 'right way up'. Where the only fixed datum is the keel, every frame is then open to error, movement in three dimensions.
This is a very good arguement for building 'upside-down'. Where all the frames are fixed in 3 dimensions, the only movement error is the in the keel. I chose to do this model 'right way up', as this was the method used in the MM article for this model.
I future I will build 'upside-down', it is a lesson learned. But learning is half the fun.

A flat spot is something I am happy to live with. It is too late to do anything to fix it now now.
If I was building an IOM, or other racing craft, the lines would be critical. But on a working boat, that won't be competing it won't matter.
Belive me you are going to see a lot worse before I have finished.  :embarrassed: Especially in the transom area.



There are many master model builders on this site, who produce near perfect results. It can at times be intimidating to new modellers like me.
There are also lots of expensive kits, that I don't want to spend so much money on.

One of the reasons for doing this build log, and calling it 'Bodgers Class' is to show that even if you are cack handed, and do not have all the right tools, all the right materials, and years of experience, even a newbie can build a boat from scratch. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just a boat that will sail and look good, to the untrained eye. OK it won't win any prizes at modelling shows, or any races, but that is not the aim here.

I would encourage anybody to have a go at scratch building, even if only once, even it is isn't perfect. Bodge it :-))
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