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Author Topic: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise  (Read 46370 times)

derekwarner

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #75 on: August 12, 2009, 01:03:33 PM »

As tt says ......." It is too late to do anything to fix it now" ....no sorry tt

1) one tea spoon of P38 filler will cure the depression @ either side of frame 7
2) my comment was based upon humble visual observations & not intended as a critism of build

regards Derek  :embarrassed:
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2009, 01:10:04 PM »

TT,

I will let you into a little secret:

even when you have built a number of scratch boats there is always some 'bodged' bits - you just learn how to hide them better. :}

Ian
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #77 on: August 15, 2009, 11:48:09 AM »

Well the hull is on hold, so I can should start something else.
An obvious thing to start would be the sails, as there is a fair bit of work in them, if you do them properly, but I will be taking short cuts.

First job is was to buy 100% cotton sheet. This was preshrunk by soaking in a bucket of cold water for a few hours and then let it dry naturally.
Repeat many times. I have actually been doing this as I go along.

Then I went to dye it. I bought the dye last year in UK. I did not know how to use Dylon Dye or how much to use. I bought several colours for different projects.

I have no idea of how much dye to use. The pack says on dye pack per 8oz of fabric. I find that the double sheet I had was just over 20oz. I only had 2 red dyes, one dark and one medium. So I figured if I use less water I will be OK.

Followed the instructions.
But the resulting colour is too light, for my mind. I have no idea what colour red sails really are, but I imagined a dried blood colour.
I guess I will now need to buy a medium brown and use half quantities to tone this down.

So the sails are on hold now.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #78 on: August 15, 2009, 12:00:07 PM »

Hmm! What else can I do.

Well I can knock out the blanks for the masts and spars.

Luckily I have some 1/2" dowel. So cutting the lengths for the gaff spar, top mast, and bowsprit was easy.
This dowel also fits in the jaws of my drill. Using gloves and sandpaper, I used the drill to turn the dowel and taper the bowsprit.

The larger mast and main boom are 20mm diameter. I selected a nice straight piece of cedar with nice straight grain and no knots. Cut it square section and then octagonal on the table saw.

From the octagonal I simply used a Permagrit block to sand off the corners, and make it round. This could be done with a plane, but the block has a reasonable length to keep a straight line.
It is easy to find the flat spots, by feel or you can see them in the light, keep working to elininate the flat spots.
I was not looking for a perfect factory finished round dowel. But I do need them to be straight. After getting the round shape I switched to sandpaper to smooth it.

When doing a taper, I found it helped to draw the smaller diameter on the end of the wood as a guide.

This was actually a really easy process.

And that is as far as I got today.
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JMB

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #79 on: August 18, 2009, 10:01:00 PM »

Hi TT, Mark here. I already have a Louise Heloise which I was lucky enough to buy from a fantastic model maker.He only makes, never sails them .I see you were thinking of adding extras to the hull.Iam no expert but it is not needed the hull is such a great shape it sails fine as it is .The trick is you will need about 30 lbs of lead ballest at least.  Plus use three servos if you were not already.  One each for the jib, main sail and rudder. Control of the front sails makes steering - tacking so much easier, even in high winds.I have sent only one picture ,if it is useful I could send more, good luck Mark

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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2009, 10:38:59 PM »

Hi Mark
Thanks for the pic. She is a nice boat.

If you could post a pic of the scuppers along the the bottom of the gunwhales I would be very greatful. This is the area I am most unclear about at the moment.

I will be fitting 3 servos. Do your two sail servos work in unison or are they independantly controlled.
If the latter, I would be interested to know more.

The reason for adding a fin keel is that I do sail in very strong winds and rough water (see pic), and I have only been able to find lead in a fishing tackle shop here, so I need to keep the costs down, as I have to pay the equivalent of £8 per kilo in local currency.

If you post and I don't reply straight away, it is because I am going off on travels for a couple of weeks.
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JMB

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2009, 07:41:34 PM »

Hi, Yes the servos are independant control. It makes it much easier for steering and tacking with a boat this size. The rudder is the same size as the plans show, it didn't have to be made any bigger because of the extra control from the independant sail control.  I hope the pictures below will be of use. Having control of the jib makes tacking much easier especially in heavy weather as you have. Mark.



















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Greggy1964

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2009, 01:39:37 AM »

Planking issue.

The following is hopefully a clear description of how I tackle planking a model boat hull. At the end are a few photos of my models that will hopefully show my system works very well. Both hulls a lapstrake as opposed to carvel or edge to edge planking described here but the principles are basically the same for both planking methods.

When planking a boat hull it must be realized that the girth of each frame is wider at the centre or mid-ship section than near the ends of the ship. On ships with a deep heel such as this the girth of the frames towards the stern are actually wider than the mid-ship section and so the lower 6 to 10 planks are much wider than mid-ship width.

The trick is to decide first how many planks per side you need forgetting width of planks at this point in time, this is best done by laying a strip of paper along the edge of each frame from keel to deck to work out its half girth from keel to deck line.

Let’s say for instance your ship has 20 planks per side port and starboard and you have all your strips of paper for each frame (hopefully at each of your strips match for length port and starboard at each frame!).

Measure the mid-ship frame paper strip and using a calculator divide this by 20 and this will give you the width of each plank at that point. It will be noted when this is done for the subsequent frames forward of mid-ship frame to the stem, that each plank will get narrower (rather like the staves on a wooden beer barrel). Each set of plank widths is now transferred from the paper strip to its matching frames either side of the keel.

On this particular model the girth of the frames as mentioned earlier will get wider towards the stern, this is because of the deep heel where the keep slopes slightly downward from stem to stern, and here we take a different tack.

We want the first 6 to 10 planks up from the keel to be wider as we come back from the mid ship section so the top one of these particular planks reaches the point where the stern post disappears up into the hull and the rudder post pokes down through the rudder port.

The 11th plank will then cut across the side of the stern post and its upper edge will stop at the rudder port. And then the 12th and subsequent planks run past plank 11 and meet their opposites on the centre line of the boat from the rudder port to up and under the lower edge of the transom. If you google Brixham or Lowestoft Sailing Trawler and look at some of the photos during restoration of these lovely ships you can see the run of the planks in this difficult to visualize area.

http://www.vigilanceofbrixham.co.uk/gallery09.shtml      here is some great shots of Vigilance's underside at her stern post.

Next comes the impossible area at the sharp turn on the transom, here the planks near this tight turn become very narrow, on the real ship they might go right down to 3" wide or less to get around the turn, where as at the mid-ship area the same plank might be 8" wide.

The trick I use at this point when planking is to get some fine piano wire and a tin of hard stainless steel dress makers pins. The pins hold the wires on the marks you have just made on each frame edge representing the plank seams.

The wire represents the seam between two adjacent planks and because it is springy it will show you a fair run around the hull. Take care as you run each wire around the hull that you are following the correct mark at each frame for that plank seam from stem to stern, i.e. the wire on the seam between plank 6 and plank 7 does not jump to the marks for the seam mark between plank 7 and plank 8.  Also avoid kinking the wire as this will not give a fair curve.

If you play about with a number of these wires you get a view as if the planks were invisible and only the seams can be seen.

The idea is to plan out the run of planking before planking begins avoiding frustration and wasted precious planking material. Each wire can be moved up and down frames a fraction until a set of sweet lines can be seen.

At this point the marks on eack frame edge may be made permanent with a fine bladed saw.

A thought here about the guard-board plank.

This is the one next to the keel. I was usual on this type of hull to keep the mid-ship plank width all the way to the stem post allowing it to reach up the stem as far as it would go.

This gives a pleasing up sweep to the rest of the planks at the bow and avoids the planks taking an ugly down-sweep when viewed directly from in the front of the ship. Then the rest of the frame girths are divided up with the remaining 19 planks.

If this is your first time at planking a hull, I would suggest getting some cheap pine and have it ripped up on a fine circular saw into thin planks so that they turn out wider than the maximum plank width you have on your ship. Start at the keel and work towards the turn of the bilge and from the deck down alternatively.

Google the process of lining and spiling off planking. There is a good article here

http://www.duck-trap.com/building.html

If you mess up a plank it is no big deal because the material you are practicing on is cheap. Tack each plank in place with your dress makers pins as you go. No glue at this point because you may need to these planks become templates for your expensive mahogany material later.

Just a side track here.

When cutting your planks you will probably want to use a small modeler’s plane to shave the edge of each plank to the scrived lines you have marked on your planking stock. So we are going to make a plank clamp that will hold your planking stock firmly and will allow you to plane its edge down to the scrive line on your lap as I do, or the whole thing may be clamped in a bench vice.

Grab yourself two pine boards about ½” thick by 3” wide and at least as long as your longest plank Mark the centre line down the length of both boards on their widest face and clamp them together so that you have effectively one board with ends 1” x 3”. Drill a series of holes to allow a carriage bolt and wing nut to pass through both boards side to sides along the marked centre-line at about 6 to 8 inches apart down their length. 

The carriage bolts will be passed through their matching holes and tightened up using wing nuts thus closing up the two boards together rather like the jaws of a very wide vice. Along the edge of one of these boards, glue and pin a strip of your planking stock. This will now become the bottom edge of your plank clamp and become a pivot closing the jaws inwards towards each other when the wing nuts are tightened.

The plan is that when you sandwich a length of planking stock between these two boards of your new plank clamp, your scrived pencil line on the planking stock will be seen above the plank clamp upper edges.

When tightening up all the wing nuts on each carriage bolt, the plank stock will be gripped very firmly allowing you to plane down the exposed edge of the plank stock. It will be found that if you taper the upper outer edges of your new plank clamp, it will give better access with the plane to shave down the edges of the plank stock rather than leaving them square.

Back to planking the hull.

Soon you will end up at the closing plank, this is the last plank and it runs from half way up the stem, around the bilge and will tuck up at the stern somewhere between the stern post and the transom

If you work patiently tapering each plank so that it matches the widths at each frame position along its length you are going to end up with a very pleasing result with a hull that will be picked out by the beautiful run of its planking. Before each plank is fixed it is used as a template for its matching partner on the opposite side of the ship. This way the planking will be a perfect mirror image either side of the keel.

Your ship will be strong and tight as a bottle; the planks will be regular and describe a smooth sweep from stem to stern.

Be sure not to fill up the seams between each plank too much because these ships were built in a workman like manner where the seams could be seen. Only on yachts did the sides of a ship present a glass like appearance.

You will be so pleased with your efforts that you will want to varnish the hull to show off your efforts!

















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Greggy1964

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2009, 02:46:07 AM »

Plank clamp.

Here is a drawing of what I meant by a plank clamp, the image was meant to be part of my last post but I missed it off by accident.



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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2009, 03:43:16 AM »

Hi JMB

Thanks for the pics. The scupper area was the only really missing link in the plans, and magazine article.


Hi Greggy
Thanks for the very detailed description of planking. I will use this on future models.


The point about narrow planking around the sharp bends is allowed for in the plans (see pic) for LH. It is shown in the plans and magasine article without any explanation, and I realised my error while 'doing a noddy' on evening on holiday.
This is something I overlooked when I was planking. Me being keen to get on, and showing my inexperience.

I also now see that my fix/bodge will require some narrow planking, rather than using ply.
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andrewh

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2009, 05:12:42 PM »

TT,

Since your sail-dyeing and me losing a whole reply to the PostGoblin I have been looking in vain for the home website of the full-size LH.

Not surprising since I was remembering precisely the wrong boat!  Reasonably right type but WRONG BOAT

Jolie Brise was built 1913 at Le Havre so is not so very far away from LH
This is her website with lots of pics in case it helps you (or is interesting).
http://www.dauntseys.org/page.aspx?id=272
There is also a nice site with 2 builds of models (1/50 and 1/20th) and a lot of careful stuff about CLR and CLA and CEs and things.  Since the boats have a lot in common, this might be directly useful
http://www.joliebrisemodels.co.uk/french/index.html

andrew
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #86 on: September 18, 2009, 01:17:53 AM »

An Excellent very informative website, with lots of building tips, and how to's for tackle and rigging.

Thanks for that. I know what my winter reading will be now.

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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2009, 08:20:17 AM »

After a bit of a layoff.
Back to the build.

I will be doing the sails alongside other stuff. But I will try to keep things together where I can.


The first thing to do was to trace out the sail pattern from the plan, onto tracing paper.
There patterns were then laid onto my material (self dyed 100% cotton sheet), taking care to follow the straight of the material (on sheet this is in line with the selved/clean edge), as per the pattern shown on the plans. The leech of the sail in line with the straight of material.

The material was then cut out and a hem line ironed into the material, and pinned.

The sail was then fliped and the lines that would be seen where the sail material (on the real boat) are sewn together were pencilled on.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2009, 08:29:50 AM »

Then off to the little woman at the market to sew the hems and put in the 'decorative' seams in the sails.

There are two schools of thought about what thread to use.

1/ Only use natural cotton as natural cotton thread should have the same shrinkage characteristics a 100% cotton sheet.
If threads and sail fabric shrink at the same rate this will avoid puckering of the sail along seam lines.

2/ The one in the sail making guide I have read.
Only use synthetic threads. Synthetic threads will not shrink when wet. The stitching may become a little loose if the base fabric shrinks a little, but it will not cause puckering. It is when the thread shrinks more than the fabric that puckering occurs.

I kinda tested this indirectly when I was dying my sheet. I know the hems were made with synthetic thread as it did not take the dye, at all. The sheet was 100% cotton and dyed well. But when wet there was no puckering.

But I have not control whatever over the thread the woman at the market uses. But I am not really worried.
I chose a thread that was slightly darker than the sails, and kept the reel, as I will use this to sew on my bolt ropes.

The sails came back and they look OK to me.


As an aside, I was originally worried about the sail colour being too pink. But I realise this will get darker after I waterproof the material.
And she charged me the princely sum of 20 yuan (about £2), so I am happy.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2009, 08:40:28 AM »

Next step was to glue on the bolt ropes, prior to sewing them on.

I read on Mayhem that somebody else had done this and it reduces the work involved in sewing, as you only need one pair of hands.

I used PVA glue as it dries clear.
Running a bead along the edge of the sail, then rolling the bolt rope in the glue and up to the edge of the sail.

Remembering to put a small loop in the bolt rope at the corners of the sails.
Plastic clothes pegs were used as clamps in the corners.

Last picture, bolt rope when the glue is dry. Ready for sewing.
The bolt rope is 100% cotton string, BTW.


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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #90 on: October 05, 2009, 04:56:09 AM »

Although the bolt rope has been PVA glued on, it will also need stitching.

This needs to be done by hand.
I thought this would painstakingly difficult, but I managed to sew the jib sail (over 2m overall perimeter) in an afternoon and part of an evening.
I found that where I had used too much PVA the sewing was hard. At one point I bent the needle, but I actually found the now curved needle easier to use.

When sewing I tried to run the thread so that it followed the twist in the bolt rope.

However the flip side of the sail does not look so neat. This will improve with practice. And once the boat is 5m out on the water, no one will see.

What I would do differently is dye the bolt ropes a slightly different colour to the sail next time, so that they stand out.
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derekwarner

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #91 on: October 05, 2009, 07:04:57 AM »

TT...will the PVA glue not re-whiten & moisten when wet?...having said this...an alternate bonding agent could be a product similar to our OZ branded 'Selleys' acrylic Kwik Grip

The package suggets 'dries clear,. forms a heat resistant, waterproof & flexible bond' .....Derek
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #92 on: October 05, 2009, 10:25:19 AM »

Hi Derek

Thanks for the heads up.
I don't think the PVA will re-moisten once set, I think it is 'water resistant' the same as the Seeleys. But I will keep my eye on it.
I will also be waterproofing the sails once finished. As they should not get immersed I think I will be ok.

The product you mention says it is an acrylic contact adhesive. Does anybody know of a UK brand of such a product?
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2009, 07:25:42 AM »

More in the spirit of What I Learned, than a How to...

I have changed my sewing technique.
I am getting better results and sewing at about twice the speed per length of cloth, even though I am using more stiches per inch.

The stitches are now much more regular, and look much better than before IMHO. Although still far from perfect.

Also, by attaching a small bag to one end of the sail, with a clothes peg, the fabric is held slightly taught. This makes it much easier to work with.
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andrewh

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2009, 12:53:21 PM »

TT

Nice work, and thanks for the great words and pics.

Technically what you are doing is "couching" - same as the gold braid attached to sleeves and caps.  (incidentally removing the gold braid to recover the gold is a process known as "drivelling" (or so I have been told))

Very pleasing results you are getting.  I can see that doing the bolt ropes and cringles is the only reason not to have 3 or more headsails!

Now I know why my trial suit of sails is always synthetic material cut with a soldering iron :}
andrew
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2009, 02:57:22 AM »


Now I know why my trial suit of sails is always synthetic material cut with a soldering iron :}

Hi Andrew

On a similar vien, I had an email from John C warning me that you cannot always trust the sail plan on boat plans to be adequate.
Perhpas cutting a set of trail sails would be a way of double checking.

However in my case I have not finished the hull yet, let alone stepped the mast, and finished the booms to do this.

I started the sails early as I have read that it can take many months of sewing, and task I dreaded, and so I started early as the sort of job that can be picked up and put down in between other tasks.
To be honest I have found sail making a very enjoyable task so far.
A short day to dye the fabric.
A short day to cut the templates, cut the cloth, and take to the sewing machine woman.
A short day for sewing the boat ropes on to each of the two sails I have done so far.

This is stuff you can pick up and put down easily and you can do it in the living room.
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tigertiger

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2009, 03:01:01 AM »

Question

When making the holes to attach the mast hoops:

Would you punch a hole in the cloth with a needle and then push the weave apart to make a hole, and would this be big enough?
If so would you then whip stitch the edge of the hole?

OR

Would you cut a small hole and then whip stitch?
If so how would you cut the hole?
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derekwarner

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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2009, 06:20:29 AM »

just a thought tt.... :D...mark the all of hole positions with a single DOT then take the material to the Chinese lady with the sewing machine & ask if she can machine the whip stiching circles that small  <*< ....Derek
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2009, 06:41:17 AM »

TT
To fix the mast hoops I would mark the spacing as derek suggests, and sew them with about 6 turns of button thread (very loose), knot it off then give the sail and thread a dab of my favourite "lock and anti unravel", water-based acrylic varnish .

But if your seamstress can make a rosette that would be even better and scaleish

andrew
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Re: Bodgers Class Build - Louis Heloise
« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2009, 10:42:25 AM »

Good suggestion Derek I will ask if she can do this.

Andy,
I am not sure what you mean by 'about six turns of button thread'?
Do you mean six stitches to complete the circle, in a radial pattern (e.g. at roughly 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 o'clock positions)?

And why very loose?
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