Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Alcohol Problem?  (Read 5179 times)

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,403
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2008, 02:54:37 PM »

Quote
I would like to point out that the Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) view of the problem is not shared by all organisations that help alchoholics. The AA paradigm (life long disease) is helpful to many but not all.

I didn't know that TT! What other organisations are out there?

Martin


Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

Colin H

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
  • Location: Nottingham England
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2008, 04:45:21 PM »

First I love a glass of malt, real ale and German wine and I smoke.


TT having read your post you remind me of a friend who can do what most cannot. An Ex navy man he was an ardent smoker into his forties, wakes up one morning and decides he will stop. No hassle, nothing, just stopped.

In his late fifties to prove a point I saw him smoke a cigarette big deep breaths, really enjoyed it. Finished the fag and I have never seen him smoke a another.

He is now 74 and every other Sunday lunch we meet for a quite beer and put the world to rights. He will smoke one King Edward whilst having his pint and again thats it until the next time we meet.

My point is that there are not many that can do this and for most `just one` means they are re-addicted. I have great admiration for those who can pack up the weed or after being a alcoholic can stop drinking.

Colin H.
Logged
do every thing today tomorrow may not arrive.

craftysod

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2008, 08:09:09 PM »

I am in the unfortunate position at the moment,my so called stepson is staying with us at the moment,he came down here from where he was living to get clean.
He is a heroin user and a raving alcholic,so far he has craved the drugs,as any kind of drug (apart from prescribed) is not welcome in this flat.
But he has not gone elsewhere to obtain them,with the drink,we provide a bottle of sherry a day to keep him stable,as the doctors down here are not interested/or not capapable of helping him out.
Because he is homeless,the authorities are a waste of time because he has a drug/drink addiction.
Yes i agree with what your thinking,drunk/druggie,i feel the same,i would blame them for what they are and still do.
But when i see my partner(his mum) crying/shaking with worry and under the doc for stress,i have no alternative but to try and help him.
I would personally chuck him out,get on with what he wants to do,but i know as a taxpayer,that it will cost me.
And i cant see his mum crying anymore as i love her so much,it hurts me to see her in pain.
Sorry to go on
Mark






















Logged

Reade Models

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2008, 08:38:00 PM »

Mark

I'm not one for platitudes, but can't you get some professional help for his problem?  It's not a burden that you should have to carry alone.

Malc
Logged

bobdoc

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2008, 08:48:49 PM »

Hi Bernard

Sorry, just back home after a very long day. Back to the "old fashioned" binge drinker ("bender man"), I'm sorry my point was not clear. Is a real variant of true alcoholism but very difficult to help, unless the victim can obtain real insight.

This is a fantastic discussion with much helpful debate. Forum "lurkers" (like myself, much of the time) may be observing these thoughts. Can they ask:  Does this apply to me? Can I see "they" are describing me? Who can I seek out to help me?

AA is one organisation but lots of other sources of help exist. Family members (a word in your ear) can find it difficult to broach the problem. If they do, listen and don't dismiss .. but do seek the help that is there for you.

When individuals present seeking help, the norm is to be taken seriously and options for help and guidance openly discussed .. if you see form this debate that you might have "a problem", speak to someone. Please.

Bobdoc
Logged

craftysod

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2008, 09:36:16 PM »

Malc
Nowhere down here seems to want to help,ring this number,get past onto ring this, after 200 phone bill back to square one
Wil persavere to keep my my other half sane,and me,fed up with paying for him to live
Mark
Logged

Reade Models

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2008, 09:41:26 PM »

Logged

craftysod

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2008, 09:54:56 PM »

Thanks Malc  :-))
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,155
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2008, 02:03:00 AM »

Quote
I would like to point out that the Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) view of the problem is not shared by all organisations that help alchoholics. The AA paradigm (life long disease) is helpful to many but not all.

I didn't know that TT! What other organisations are out there?

Martin




The organisation I was involved in helped students with counselling services. Alchohol was one of the issues we dealt with. The leaders of which recieved advice an training form other organisations. There are also people connected to hospital counselling services and others who deal with general counselling, all of whom will have had training in giving advice on alchohol abuse.

It was through working with this organisation that I started to understand my own alchohol abuse and how I had actually learned to manage it. I no longer say myself as a lapsed (failed) alchoholic, but as someone who had got the problem under some control (partial success), and this led to me getting my problem under control.

Most of us who know of an alcholic only see the visible alcholics. That is the ragind drunk, or the AA member who (forgive me for saying this) wear the condition like a badge.
There are many who have just quietly re-learned to use alchohol and they don't want to publicise it. All would see they have a problem with alchohol, but many would not admit to being an alcholic.

Having to accept the fact that you are an alcholic is hard, and having to openly admit it is stigmatising. IMHO they are not always necessary steps and not helpful for many people.

AA is a good orgainstaion that works for many, but not for all.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

polaris

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2008, 10:27:55 AM »


Dear All,

Well, thankfully this flu thing seems to be very much better today. What with normal unavoidable business/office commitments that must be done, aged parents who have needed the Dr. out twice this last couple of days (& need my attention), and together with a few other things that have to be done whatever be the case during a normal week, this has been a week (starting from last Sat.), that I will be very pleased indeed to see the back of! Anyway, health of all seems to be returning, it has stopped raining, and the sun is out!!!

The only way I can respond properly and efficiently to all who have taken interest in and the trouble to respond to this Topic, is to print everything out and work through them one at a time offline and do a general Post to cover all. Some of the subjects raised need careful thought, and I never do this via a 'live' reply. Firstly though, and you will please forgive me, I must first look through Posts on a couple of 'Alcohol Boards' that I am responsible for, since I have not been able to check them for the last twenty hours, and there are two 'situations' I am concerned about and must catch up on.

Regards, Bernard
Logged

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,403
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2008, 11:56:52 AM »

Th s came up on BBC today.....

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7765767.stm
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

polaris

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2008, 02:10:36 PM »


Dear Martin,

I spoke too soon... seemingly my week has not ended yet. There will be a short delay as an hour after printing everything out I was called to see my Mother who's breathing was suddenly very bad, so Dr. called and ambulance arrived. I am not going to tempt providence by saying anything, but after 'attendance' she did not have to go into hospital, and things are 'balanced'.

My promised reply will be done shortly - was half way through.

Regards, Bernard

p.s. I always like to see such things as shown in your Link. You might be very surprised at how many celebrities (very well know and known), are affected. Larry Hagman is one of my main examples I use... admirable example, and a very nice man indeed.
Logged

polaris

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2008, 07:17:04 PM »

(Sorry for delay, soonest could do).

Dear All,

Well, there is a pile of printout on my desk, and I worked through it and replied one page at a time! I will keep this as short as I can, but it does need a little explanation.
 
MARTIN. Your post of the 3rd.. You mentioned people scoffing at alcoholism in the past. Perfectly understandable, and there is indeed an element of lack of self control... however, for someone even on the verges of 'an alcohol problem', the main problem is the lack of recognition - even of a growing problem. The frequent prominence of alc. in TV & Film, and advertising, are not good, and I am surprised that whilst tobacco advertising has been banned, that stricter controls have not been applied to it's prominence in featuring in those media fields. There is no doubt that excess consumption is on the increase, and it follows obviously that 'miss use' (for want of better words), will increase in parallel. As I mentioned before, there are distinct stages in problematic drinking: the occasional normal drinker (no problem here), social drinker (no real problem but more occasional than the last), the regular drinker (this is where things start to go 'wrong' - or can go wrong), the dependent (must have every day), the alcoholic (must have regularly at various times of the day), and the drunk. Now, this latter category covers someone who simply cannot survive a day without alc. nearly continuously. They can be helped, but they are the most difficult cases. To be brief in this, all the categories can be successfully once the sufferer accepts there is a problem, and want's to do something about it. Luckily this is quite often, but some take much more time/work than others (and can be very hard work for those helping), as to the 'drunk', well, at this stage hospitalisation is the only real way to get things moving. There was a short TV series this last year, tucked away about 11am that I discovered purely by chance, and it was one that should be shown again with more prominence I feel - did anyone see it?
 
JAN. Again, I must stop smoking I know. Horrible stuff. I am looking at/researching another method of achieving this... but this for another time.
 
BOBDOC. Binge drinking is indeed a growing problem, and one that will continue until the authorities reduce the opening hours of clubs etc..
 
TCC. The Mods. do a very good job on this Board, and, whilst this subject is indeed not within anything modelling, it is however generally socially pertinent. During the early 1970's I spent a lot of time in the mining area of Weardale (fluorspar mining). Alcohol featured prominently in the miners social scene, and six or seven pints a night was not uncommon - and more over weekends. I stayed in a nice small pub in those days not far from Alson,, and the place used to be busy every night with locals in the village who worked in foundry at Alston: again five to seven pints a night was quite normal - indeed, no-one really took any notice of it. Anyway, the mines in Weardale are finished, and Alston foundry is long gone. In the good pay days (1972 - 85), it was quite common for 40% of wages to go to the bookies, 30% for home use, and the rest to the pubs. There were four in one village alone, but there is only one now.

PMK. An interesting Post, and I have been thinking about this. Try not to think to badly about this person. Something might no be quite right somewhere. He may indeed be highly pleased with himself for getting off alc.: we have alI come across those who have given up smoking and tell us every minute of the day about there success, even though we have heard it about thirty time before! Just for thought: to give up alcohol can be about ten times harder or more. It is just possible that this person is very pleased with themselves - justifiably - or, is hanging on by his fingernails to keep off it, and to talk about it helps keep his resolve going. I would like to make a suggestion. When you see him next, ask him what it was like to be an alcoholic. Ask him how he came off it and how difficult was it to do. The ask him if he still drinks. If he says no, then gently say, look, we are happy to help you along from time to time, but could you give us a rest from it every now and again. He will most likely apologise, but say, no need, it's just that we come here for a rest - but would be happy to talk just before we go if he wants. However, if he says he does still drink, then you will know where the problem is. You can't do anything about this yourself obviously, but suggest that he sees his Dr. as it's a shame to go so far down the line and not achieve what he wants - say this bit in private and not in front of others. Let me know what happens.

MALC. Thankyou. I made it my business to learn as much about the process as poss. at the same time (this just my nature anyway), but I have 'studied' the matter since. AA can indeed work for many, but others are not suited - me being one. I will still however say that it is an excellent facility run by excellent people, and does a great deal of first class work.

JEFF. What you say re alc. is actually right. It's addiction level is surprisingly close to Class A drugs. It's side affects are bad, not just mentally (depression/anxiety initiator), but also very physiologically debilitating - sometimes it does not need much consumption to achieve these affects. About two months ago I was invited to half day Seminar for alcohol councillors (top up course), and some of the new info. is very interesting - I am still working my way through the Papers!

DAVID. Just the culture these days I'm afraid, and it difficult to know how to handle it. I always advise of the good old solid excuses: 1), Driving, 2), on Meds., 3). It make you ill. People in the main find these easy excuses to give out, and if pushed ('you said that last time'), well, sorry, still the same.

PMK. Your second Post. Let's see what happens with what I mentioned previously. Ok, there are irritating people out there, but I think there might be something else in this case. As to what you said about moderation in consumption, sorry, doesn't work in 99% of cases. As to giving up  smoking, well, we all know it's miserable for a while, but it does wear off faster than alc. addiction, though, I must admit, I am not looking forward to giving up smoking... but it's something that I MUST do... I know it is not doing me any good.

IAN. Most GP's will take a plea for help to give up smoking seriously. Far better to get something done about it 'now', rather than have it possibly develop into something nasty later on. You hit the nail on the head about WANTING to stop addictive things, this is absolutely true. This comes a bit into the denial category, but it is too long a subject to launch into here.

TIGER TIGER. True what you say re AA. It does suit many, but it is not for some. If, however, someone is cut out for it, it is first class, and I have seen a great many successes. I have helped 'all sorts', high and low, and have had one or two surprises with people who I thought would not get on with it. There are of course all sorts of other things than can be attended/arranged via gnrl. counselling, that are not on the lines of AA (so, please, anyone reading this, there are all sorts of routes open).

MARK. If you want numbers and suggestion please IM.

BOBDOC. Re you last Post. This is half the problem... people will not talk about it. Obviously there is denial, and this must be overcome first. It is surprising how quickly positive results can be achieved once this hurdle is overcome.

MALC. There is indeed help. The fast track route is for the sufferer to see a GP and simply say they can't cope with it. Many GP's I come in contact with are only too happy to help such cases... again, far better to treat the problem sooner rather than later - saves having to put the pieces back together later on (much harder to do obviously).

CRAFTYSOD. Please PM me if you wish as this is not a matter I would like to address on the Board.

Regards to All, Bernard

=================================================

For anyone reading all this who thinks they might have a problem with alcohol, the all the Posts on this Topic is a good rough guide as to what everything is all about. However, there is more too it, and I would be pleased to help/suggest routes if wished. Please ONLY IM, and my email adds. is on my profile.

Regards, Bernard
Logged

OMK

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2008, 10:39:34 PM »

Mr. Polaris, first let me get this out the way......

I've been following this thread from since you started it going. In that short time it's already ran to two pages. Also in that short time I couldn't help but notice all the honesty from everyone. I think maybe you deserve a bit of recognition for what you've done here. I kind of admire the way you had the balls to admit your battle with the booze -- the openness, the honesty. What I'm saying is, I admire the way you broached this subject. You did it all nice and mellow, without being directly in anyone's face.
Nice move, dude, because from where I'm sitting, I'm still sitting, whereas ordinarily I would have left this thread at the first whiff of 'patronising' and 'git'.
But you didn't do any of that caper. So that deserves a bit of respect.

To answer your question...
Michael the ex-Navy man has not touched a drop since the day he went into a room and announced to a bunch of strangers he was an alcoholic. That was eight years, three months, fourteen days, nine hours and thirty-five minutes ago, is what he told me. You see, Michael is still counting every second since his last drop. EVERY second. Now do you see what I'm saying? Michael is a tortured man. He is also a liar. He's lying to himself, just won't admit that he's not yet done with the sherry. And because of that, it's making him the most miserable sod on the planet.
I disagree when some say that 'just one' would be fatal. It doesn't have to be like that at all. In Mike's case all he has to do is go to the pub and have a real good blow-out. Like I said, he's not stupid. He's knows all there is to know about navigation, sextons, longitude, stars, ships, latitude, the sea, John Harrison... He really is a clever a bloke. He's already been up Alkie Street so judging from the way he's suffering it's obvious he don't want to go back there. And then he'll be able to go to the pub again and enjoy a drink without getting sloshed.

You mind if I bung you a question?
You're toying with the idea of quitting smoking, right?
How do you fancy making a little pact/deal/attempt at giving it a whirl?
I don't know how many I smoke each day, I've never counted. But on average I can do a 50g pack of baccy in 7, maybe 8 days.  I don't know how many you smoke each 7 or 8 days, but what say you in we make a joint venture? What if you cut your weekly amount to, say, 25% for the same given time, and I'll do ditto.





Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,455
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2008, 11:13:43 PM »

This is a useful and thought provoking topic but it might be as well to remind all concerned that we should keep it at a general level of discussion and not get too much into specifics. Polaris has made it clear in his initial post that he is happy to respond to PMs and would prefer personal information to be treated confidentially. I think he is absolutely right to do this. Otherwise there is a danger that the topic will become something of a "confessional" which is something to be avoided on a public forum.

Colin 
Logged

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,403
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2008, 11:25:04 PM »

That good advice, I go along with that.

Martin.
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

polaris

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Alcohol Problem?
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2008, 07:15:42 PM »


Dear Martin and Colin and All.

Colin is absolutely right in what he says, and Martin likewise in endorsing it. I fully agree, and think there is now quite enough general background info. for general thought on this Topic. I am grateful to all those who have troubled to make such a valuable contribution to it - I did not expect such a response.

PMK I will PM you if I may and continue down that avenue please. If you would give me a day or so I would be grateful, whilst my cold/flu has gone, others are not very well and 'things need to be done'. It is a pity I started this Topic when I did really, as I didn't expect everything healthwise at home to unexpectedly explode in my face! It has left the thread of things a bit disjointed... irritating, but however I think it's come together in the end. I was determined to reply to everybody, so apologies for the long Post - far better than about ten + separate Posts!

I will be pleased to comm. off-Board with anyone who wants to talk about things connected with this matter (or any addictive problems)... and indeed at any time in the future. So I think it's time to conclude this Topic, but, please, if anyone has any questions, please PM or email me... you will always get a reply.

Thankyou once again to all who have participated. All your comms. have been important.

Kind Regards to All, Bernard



Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up