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Author Topic: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman  (Read 66813 times)

omra85

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #125 on: August 28, 2009, 09:26:17 PM »

Just for a change - both Andy and Bill are right!!
If you just use grease, it will stop water coming up the tube initially, but the rotation of the shaft will eventually form a "tube" in the grease losing both lubrication and sealing.
Oil will lubricate, but you will have to have an almost constant feed (hence the Humbrol cans) to keep the shaft lubed as it does drain out of the end.
The solution is a combination of both - ie a thinned down grease.  The MPBA world champs use a combination of waterproof grease "thinned down" with oil.
You should be looking for a similar consistency to custard (not the lumpy 'school' variety  :} ). Inject this into the shaft, preferrably using a tube as described by Andy.  This should last an outing, after which you would, of course, be stripping the shaft down to clean and check ...  %)
Others have also sworn by
50% hydraulic oil + 50% thin lithium grease
SAE 30 motor oil
50% 3-in-1 + 50% steering box oil

The main thing is that the shaft is regularly checked to make sure that it is not corroding and that there are no untoward signs of 'polishing' in the bearing area.

Cheers
Danny

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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #126 on: August 28, 2009, 10:31:11 PM »

Hi guys, once again my thanks for your interest and response.

I did what you suggested Andy and epoxied a small tube in a hole drilled through the keel and into the shaft just behind the top oilite bearing. I checked my small store of oils and used some Tellus 38 - nice and thin (Ex-works ok2, lathe gearbox I  think) and injected some with a small syringe.......... and guess what Bill - a nice oil puddle on the bench  within ten minutes :}
So based on the law of averages I think that Danny has the right idea - a good compromise - I will have to get some grease tomorrow.

I will certainly strip the shaft out regularly so I don't think corrosion should raise a problem. I was a bit concerned over the 'oil on water' bit as we share the water with anglers and do not want to cause an 'issue' but certainly now have a better idea about the likely potential of that and agree it is likely to be on the minor side of things.

The boat? well it really is nearly done - paintwork all cut back, engine and tank in and plumbed, radio fitted, and just finishing off the 'twiddly' bits. I do still have the 'window'(?) frames to fit and these may have to be done after Sunday. I had hoped to spend tomorrow on them but a couple of mates have offered to come over and help me move a shed - an offer not to be refused.

But it's definitely, most definitely  going to get wet on Sunday :-))

Thanks again guys - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #127 on: August 28, 2009, 10:41:31 PM »

Must be quite a loose shaft then...

Remember, we need pics O0
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #128 on: August 28, 2009, 11:07:01 PM »

Shaft is fine, its the bearings that are the problem {-)

Pics are coming - well maybe - SWMBO's just commented "that it could be quite a public humiliation if it don't work then" She may have a point!

We will see - roll on Sunday............
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2009, 12:53:05 AM »

Hi Zippy, next week I hope to have final testing, although probably wont have any new packs, so it will be with a number of props, that I will be picking up from the warrington shows tomorrow, and courtesy of HS93's advice we are changing the prop from 4mm to 5mm, utilising the original 8mm tube, so its not a big job, but having to wait for the bearings, Ramon, after your initial test you might want to consider changing the 2 bearings, only cost pennies, I use ones that are lubricated by water (bottom bearing), and oil top bearing, getting them from SHG.
I originally had grease in the shaft, but it caused drag, annd after a number of runs started to bake, and as mentioned earlier, just formed a horrible gungy funnel around the shaft. I then went to Andys idea of the oiler tube, and just use a cheap 3:1  type oil applied with a syringe, dont need to fill the tube, if the bearings are good you will lose only a very negigible amount into the lake.

I will wait to post the full refurb and test results till next week, as I want to have a final play with gear ratios, THe video is 2:1, going to try 1.5:1, and smaller prop might just let the motor rev a bit more. Mr Zippy, I too tried a steamer 3 blade prop, ( thanks HS93!)it was really good, but a larger plastic 2 blade "x" was almost the same, I was happier with, incase it fell off! :embarrassed:  not such a loss!
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #130 on: August 31, 2009, 10:34:56 PM »

Hi All,

Well I'm pleased to say it didn't sink. :-)) Not quite :o

Couldn't get on it at all on Saturday so the frames got fitted on Sunday morning the last one about an hour before it got wet! And if it was going to get wet then the glazing and the front frame would have to wait. As it turned out that impatience was not a good idea and really could have proved disasterous ... but glad to say it didn't :D
Anyway heres how she looks - had to take some of these tonight as those done last night were a bit blurred.





















At the club the obligatory picture 'on the water' - it's looking a bit light but rocking it from side to side it seemed (operative word here, seemed!) to be stable enough %)



After a tentative attempt to start the engine with a cord that was too thin I had to fit a belt and one whizz with a starter and the engine burst into life. It idles superbly and picks up very quickly and ... pleased to tell that silencer worked well :-)) (but it is early days yet so no 'crowing' from this direction)

Into the water and away - Oh DEAR - not enough rudder but what there was was sufficient to put the boat virtually on it's side with water scooping up and aiming straight for the open glazing.
I did manage a couple of straight runs, the pick up of the engine obvious, but on the second run the torque of the prop suddenly rolled her over on her side . Rapidly closing the throttle she now had little steerage and ended up ignominiously but unscathed in the branches of a waterside tree. 
The top hamper with the engine running is alarming - ballast is definitely needed as well as a smaller prop - Graupner X50 used so X45 possibly X40 next.

So there we are - she's been wet at last, scared me to say the least but as the saying goes "We will be back"

I hope yours PMD is nowhere near as heartstopping - good luck with your testing

Regards for now - Ramon




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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #131 on: August 31, 2009, 10:44:23 PM »

I was sincerely hoping that wouldn't happen, it happened with my Huntsman, so much so that it couldn't turn right. This made it interesting when everyone else at the lake was doing right circuits and I was having to go the opposite direction...

Some ballasting should help it, I'd also go with the X40.

Ps it does look absolutely fantastic.
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #132 on: August 31, 2009, 11:04:29 PM »

Ramon

For what it may be worth, the prototype Modav/Precedent Huntsman 46" had an identical HP61F R/C engine. We fitted a Graupner X50 prop and screwed a whole load of lead to the frame just ahead of the transom. This kept the back-end well wet and she behaved impeccably.

Your model looks absolutely fantastic, mate.

FLJ
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #133 on: September 01, 2009, 12:04:51 AM »

looks really nice Ramon, congratulations! :-))

Pity you need to add ballast, extra weight, mine weighs just short of 6kgs with batteries, I wonder how heavy yours is, as I have no problems turning, and I have quite a large rudder. Get some video next time, would love to hear it running. Just waiting for some bearings to arrive, then its testing time again! ;)
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martno1fan

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #134 on: September 01, 2009, 10:30:41 AM »

I cant say an aerosol is going to do much in the great scheme of things, probably just create more noise.
Andy ive tried a silencer on my zenoah pipe made from energy drink cans and it workled fantasticlly well,no need for wire wool or anything its a two part silencer with a tube for the exit hole works very very well.Heres a cpl of pics of the orriginal i copied from a friend in Sweden.Ramon the Huntsman looks awesome mate well done,im sure once the ballast is sorted she will run very well.
Mart
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #135 on: September 01, 2009, 11:47:25 PM »

Hi guys,  it's good to hear you have some confidence that it will get better O0

Lead is on it's way courtesy a couple of friends and I shall ballast it down as you suggest. I also intend to cut the rudder length down by about 1/2" and fit that smaller prop.

It will be a week or so before I can get round to that as a holiday looms so it's going to be about a fortnight before I can get it on the water again.

In the meantime 'fill in the blanks' PMD and keep us posted of your progress.

I intend to get this computer sorted too during the break so hopefully I will be able to open those links you have sent and watch that vid of your boat Mart

Thanks for all your kind remarks too, glad you like it.

Back soon then, Regards - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #136 on: September 01, 2009, 11:52:13 PM »

Don't cut the rudder, I did on my Hellcat and very quickly regretted it the first time I sailed it. Cutting it down adds to the instability issues etc.
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #137 on: September 02, 2009, 12:47:43 AM »

Hi Ramon, in my opinion, and comparing your boat and mine, I dont think you have too much of a ballast issue. THe two boats sit pretty much the same in the water, this hull will always do that due to the shape. I think the big problem with stability is the placement of the rudder, it could be too far back, as the trailing edge is past the transom, so when turning, it is almost using the transom as the axis, rather than further up the hull, if you know what I mean!

If you have a couple of cheap rudders, I would try narrowing the blade quite a bit, and see what diffence it makes, if no good the rudders are only cheap. Extra ballast seems a shame, as you are adding weight, and slowing the boat down, if you run at a slower speed, and it still handles/turns bad, then that eliminates ballast. Sadly, you might have to move the prop back a bit, and the rudder. Here is a copy of mine pre final paint and set up. its copied from the original plans, but the angle has now been changed, but it gives you an idea where it is in relation to yours. Dont yet have a good photo of it sitting in the water unfortunately, but it is almost identical to yours, at 6kgs all up weight  
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martno1fan

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #138 on: September 02, 2009, 08:02:42 AM »

Usually rolling over can be too high a cog so make sure everything is as low in the hull as it will go,also reducing the size of the prop might help,i dont think its a rudder issue to be honest more a ballance problem.Also try and get her to ballance arround 30% from the transom like we do on our fast vees that might help too.You could test the ballast by installing some water bottles in the keel area and see if that does help stability,that way you can find out how much weight is needed before installing any lead.
Mart
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2009, 08:48:14 AM »

Rudder on ours was 48mm wide at top, tapering to 32mm, x 65mm tall (just measured the plans - thanks again, Pommybill). It was a Ripmax item - Extra Large size, I think.
Hope this is of some use.
FLJ
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #140 on: September 02, 2009, 09:49:08 AM »


Morning All

One last look and post before this computer goes off to the sick bay.

Weighed the boat this morning - just over 5-1/2 kilos - The rudder overhangs the edge of the transom by about 20% of it's area. Cutting down is not a such an issue as it is home made in the first place so another could be made if it doesn't improve anything.
My thinking on cutting down the length is that it's aspect ratio now appears quite high - it was a 'this looks about right' design but given the roll it induces I think that as the turn goes on and the boat heels over the rudder begins to act as a hydrovane and pushes the transom up and out of the turn. Also it appears not to have enough throw - currently about 30 degrees.

Its position is dictated by the propshaft (and it's actually a few mm further forward than shown on the plan) The propshaft is very definitely 'fixed' so I don't think that any mods are really viable. Just thinking though that I could 'extend' the length of the hull by adding some 'anti cavitation' type plates across the transom - just a thought, but another possibility.

Ballast? Well I guess PMD its a trial job. I understand your view on the weight issue but the boat appears so light on the water I really think it can handle quite a few pounds before it would get sluggish.
When I (slowly) 'opened her up' on the straight it literally leapt forward on to the plane with the throttle just about half open and the engine running on the rich side. My thought is to load it down then gradually reduce the weight until it hits the happy medium.

Balance wise Mart it's CG is just a bit more forward than you and the local lads have suggested so any ballast will be used to correct this and bring it further back.

This is all going to be trial and error I guess, can't wait to get back onto it again but that will be a few days away.

Just seen your post FLJ. This is quite a bit wider than that fitted ......... just been and measured it ............ 40 at the top tapering to 28 but 75 tall so I guess it could lose 10 or 12 mms off the bottom without too much effect.

Again guys, thanks as always for your input, please keep in mind I won't be able to respond for a few days.

Back soon

Best regards - Ramon

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grasshopper

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #141 on: September 02, 2009, 10:28:39 AM »

As things like prop and rudder are fixed, angles can't be changed - but shapes of the two items also make a difference.

I read an article sometime ago regarding prop design in one of the boat magazines. The X design of props create a lot of lift as well as thrust, I think that those fancy cleaver props as used by the racing fraternity produce a little less lift  and could be an option even for submerged use. There was a way of modifying X blades by trimming the trailing edge of the blade to reduce lift.

The same was also  mentioned regarding rudder shape and angle affecting the turning and heeling of race hulls - the heeling angle can be reduced a little but deep-vee hulls like the huntsman are renowned for it.

Adding weight should really be a last resort - if you can avoid it that would be best.

Absolutely stunning finish though....
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Proteus

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #142 on: September 02, 2009, 11:13:39 AM »

""""Just thinking though that I could 'extend' the length of the hull by adding some 'anti cavitation' type plates across the transom - just a thought, but another possibility."


you would not be doing anything that has not been done on the fullsize boat.

Proteus
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CHWk7

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #143 on: September 03, 2009, 10:55:44 AM »

Hi Ramon,

I would try cutting down your rudder length first and adding a little ballast as the transom looks to be too high in the water for my liking. I had to cut down both my rudders as she would turn to port great but try to turn to starboard and the transom would lift then she would roll and the nose would then dig in before she would respond to the starboard turn. Problem was of cause that you are slipping sidewards for a while before the boat responds to the starboard turn command, not good!!
My thoughts on this is that the wash from the prop/props "in my case" cause a lifting force over the rudders "and hence lifting the transom" caused by the fact that they both rotating anti clockwise. I have made up and fitted trim tabs too but that is to help correct the heeling over I get "even in a straight line" been that both my props rotate in the same direction.

Chris
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #144 on: November 21, 2009, 11:08:17 PM »

Any more news Ramon, how is the Huntsman doing, I had some MAJOR setbacks with mine, now cant get out  to test due to days off work always seems to be really bad weather :((
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BobF

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #145 on: January 20, 2010, 07:50:55 PM »

Hi All,
Just read this thread in its entirety, BRILL.
I have a very small V hull which was having turning problems the same as yours. The rudder is the same shape as yours. Whilst working on it at home, I refitted the rudder the wrong way round but did not notice. The next time I ran it, it was perfect. Then someone commented about my back to front rudder, so I turned it through 180 dgrs. and had another run, guess what, the boat was up to its bad old tricks again, so I now run it with the rudder back to front. So shape is very important. It could be that a much smaller rudder would go a long way to solving your problem, and as you said, they are home made so not too many pennies. We do have an over powered Huntsman at our club, and it spends most of its time chine riding.
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Harbottle

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #146 on: April 30, 2010, 04:45:31 PM »

What a fantastic boat. I've just had a look through this thread after re-joining the forum.
Does anyone remember the Ford film "Ride The White Horses" about the first round Britain race? The BBC used to show it as a trade test film during the day for TV engineers setting-up colour TVs for customers.
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madwelshman

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #147 on: November 14, 2010, 06:22:09 PM »

Hi Folks, fantastic to see so many people have such a love of the Fairey brand of boats. My uncle had a Super Swordsman that he used to race in the Early 70's. I've loved them ever since.
Anyway,  Ride the white horses is on YouTube in 3 parts:
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQpHrCRpgI
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5RYuyVxRA
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6iChCEZhYA
In my opinion, some FANTASTIC footage of the Fairey's doing what they do best, Go fast in ANY conditions.

I'm currently looking for a Fairey model Huntsman, Swordsman or Spearfish. Ideally unless I get a Spearfish, or an older Veron Huntsman(28) then I'd like to find either an unstarted or unfinished model. Then if it's the aft cabin type, I can convert it to aft cockpit. The lines of the Huntsman with aft cockpit are gorgeous. Please don't think I'm being insulting to anyone with the aft cabin versions, I love those to, I just prefer the look of the aft cockpit.

Will
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #148 on: November 15, 2010, 06:58:06 PM »

this was a fantastic build, but Ramon seems to have disappeared without completeing the boat, does anybody know what happened? :((
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martno1fan

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #149 on: November 16, 2010, 08:07:14 AM »

His profile says hes not be active since June,hope things are ok he seems like a nice fella.
Mart
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