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Author Topic: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman  (Read 66992 times)

Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2008, 09:43:59 PM »

Hi there,
I didn’t intend to post quite yet as not much progress has been made on the Huntsman but a friend called tonight and brought a couple of interesting items.
 
Firstly though,  the HP 61 is rebuilt and I’m very pleased with it. Despite it’s very gummed up and knocked about appearance as received I don’t believe this has had very much running at all. The fits on the parts are some of the best I’ve seen and it has gone back together extremely well. I can’t wait to see it running. I have been working on the engine mounting so that I can get the rails drilled before putting the lower skins on but a good dose of the seasonal ‘man flu’ (oh yes indeedy!) has kept me out of the workshop for a few days. Heres how it looks so far.


John, who had passed these engines to me in the first place had found the original box for the carb which confirms indeed that it was an ED product. (Not that that was in doubt GaryC).
Inside the box however yet another carb which is different again. I haven’t pulled it to bits yet but it appears to have two spray bars one inside the other, closing off the fuel outlet as it is closed. It also has some kind of valve arrangement at the base of the carb body which is closed (opened?) by a tapered faced extension to the throttle arm.


The other end to this valve has a conventional fuel tube nipple screwed into the body. At the moment this appears blocked. 


Despite the post having been ‘chewed’, probably to fit a smaller venturi apperture, the mechanical movement of this unit is exceptionally smooth – it certainly has a well made appearance about it. It's quite heavy though - over 2 1/2 ozs. - a bit on the heavy side for aircraft?

Any ideas anyone? Is it the original HP or OPS  both of which have been retro fitted with ED types (I don’t remember this from the OPS I ran in the ‘70’s) Is it worth renovating?

Regards and Xmas wishes to you all - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2008, 10:56:48 PM »

Oooh shiney....

I think, on balance, it would be best to use the first carb you had. If it doesn't work, I have a couple lying about the place you are welcome to.

You machine that manifold port? looks very nice.
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2008, 07:58:57 AM »

I think that this  is a Kavan carby, chaps - although my memory isn't what it used to be. BTW that excellent fit was achieved because the manufacturers - Hirtenberg - were gun makers, too.
FLJ
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2008, 01:31:41 PM »

Hi Guys, thanks for the response.

Yes I did make the manifold Andy - skimmed the outside on the crankcase then machined the manifold to fit. It's 'glued' in position using 'JB Weld' with two 8ba screws through the ends.  I've used JB Weld before to make silencers and it stood up extremely well but these were for motors that revved much lower ergo not so much heat. It will be interesting to see how it stands up in this situation. Excellent product though.

FLJ - Interesting to hear that this is a Kavan carb. I've taken a better look at it this morning and the valve at the lower corner is nothing more than a schrader type valve which vents as the throttle is closed. I can only assume that this would be connected to the fuel tank to allow the tank pressure to dissipate as the throttle closes. Thinking about it a bit more it would probably help on starting too - in not allowing pressure to force fuel through and flood the engine.
Only very rarely have I used pressure feed on my control line engines, never with any success or benefit and consequently have little kowledge about it. These engines, always hand started, were mainly set up on 'Uniflo' tanks which give a very consistent run but they of course had small venturi's with very good suction.

I shall have a go at renovating it but will stick to Andy's advice and keep to the ED carbs initially at least

I'm now feeling much better and was hoping to get in the workshop and get going on those mounting bars but SWMBO has just kindly reminded me that its Xmas Eve today and Xmas Day tomorrow! Is it? Really? Why do they always notice these things?

Regards - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2008, 06:41:28 PM »

Its christmas??

News to me...

Having more bits on a carb means more bits to set up and ultimately more bits to go wrong...  I think you are wise to take my advise, and another point is as it's already on there, which usually means it works...

Andy :-))
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2008, 09:57:47 PM »

Nuff said - if it ain't broke etc. springs to mind.

I shall press on regrundless

Have a good one - back soon ! - R
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2008, 06:50:08 PM »

Hi everyone, hope you all got what you wanted!!

Despite the Chrimble distractions have managed to escape here and there and make a bit of progress.

Got the engine mounted in it’s frame. This is the first time I‘ve installed an engine like this, last time it was a ‘paxolin’ plate bolted to two beech bearers P38’d into the hull! Wasn’t quite sure how to go about this at the outset – note the packing pieces! but the installation seems positive and in line. The prop tube is not finally installed as yet, that will be after the lower skins are on.

Rough planed the chine stringers down to the bulkheads on the bottom surface and planed and faired them in on the sides ready for the 1.5mm ply side skins which got fitted today. It’s beginning to look a bit like a boat now.

I intend to fit the bottom skins (also 1.5mm) as my early Swordsman and as shown to me at the time by my friend Arthur
This involves cutting the two panels as accurately as possible to  the ‘run’ of the keel and stem line and then drilling small holes along the (keel) edge and loosely ‘stitching’ together using copper wire. The holes get progressively closer at the turn of the keel to the stem. When the panels are opened up like a book they form a natural and symmetrical shape into which the hull frame work is ‘pushed’. Held in place the insides are then coated with resin – poly or epoxy which is allowed to flow filling any gaps. The result should be two stressed  skins uninfluenced by any bulkhead deviation.
Bear in mind this is a thirty year memory – I ‘remember’ it worked well on the Swordsman but it was along time ago. A couple of more days should see whether said memory is right!

Anyone any thoughts on this process? Any input would be valued.

Back later - Ramon
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2008, 07:49:45 PM »

http://www.mecoa.com/acc/carbs/index.htm

Just as a matter of pride, really. See? I can  remember important things!! Thinking back, I'm sure that Kavan also made a "pressure" carb, which explains why there's a bleed valve on the lower corner. The R/C aerobatic boys used to use these carbys in the early 70's, with tank pressure from the engine crank-case to maintain an even mixture throughout the flight. This was in the days of the Webra 61, the OS 60 FRC, the HP61 and sundry indies like the Redshift. They also went like greased weasel pooh. Then someone invented the backplate-mounted fuel pump and the tuned exhaust and things were never quite the same again. I retired to 1/2A and Quarter Midget Pylon Racing for a quiet life.........

That model is looking pretty darned good from where I sit. I wish I had the time for building.  <:(

FLJ
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Seaspray

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2008, 10:53:46 AM »

Nice clean tidy construction.  :-))

I like the engine mount which cuts down viberation and noise, with plenty of room for the starting belt. Good solid looking glow engine with waterjacket on the head and well grooved flywheel.  Very strong coupling between engine and shaft.  :-))

Seaspray
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2008, 11:02:56 AM »

You might find that the rear rail bolts on that engine mount are a right b****** to get undone once everything is all sealed up, make sure you leave plenty of room for access and make sure before you put the deck on that you can get all the bolts undone, and once again when you put the deck on.

Looking great so far, whereabouts in the country are you?
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2008, 11:26:47 PM »

Hi all - thanks for the input. According to the chart FLJ, the carb inlet meets the OPS 40 -60 listing though what engine the bottom end has been chewed to fit laud knows. Can't help thinking though that if it will be okay for the 40 that it would be a little restrictive on the 60.

Andy - Regarding the mounting I had been thinking of this  but thanks anyway for the timely reminder, very good advice. Follows good engineering practice - don't make anything you can't take apart!! I intend to mill a slot in the outer plates which will hold the nuts and removal of the well deck will give plenty of access to bolt heads. I'm in Suffolk BTW - not a mllion miles away! Place called Beccles

A little bit more progress has been made as below.

The sides are on and have been faired to the chines on the lower  hull


A couple of layers of stringer have been added to give a better glue surface at the bows and faired off


Card template of the bottom skins made and checked for fit


The transom as drawn had to have the chines moved upwards and the transom trimmed. I decided to build up the outer corners and fair these give an upward trim effect to counter the loss of 'vee'.


It's now back on it's jig and sides planed down to the chines. Decided to fit the decks and fit out the sides of the well deck from this point on which will allow waterproofing the underside of the decks before the bottom skins go on.


The transom having been faired off and some infil applied. This will be planed off to give the deck camber.


Back soon - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2008, 11:34:10 PM »

Looks great, a very simalar hull shape to my Hellcat but with a much deeper transom. If you fancied a trip up one sunday morning to see us you are most welcome however best leave it until the summer because the lake is frozen over at the moment... on the plus side it gives you plenty of time to finish it :-))
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2008, 09:00:59 AM »

Great build and great quality photos Ramon, I'm quite envious!  :-)
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Seaspray

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2008, 09:59:43 AM »

Keep the build picture coming very nice build.

Seaspray
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2008, 05:47:37 PM »

what a lovely job Ramon, I am very envious, my skills will not allow me to do that sort of job, Fine on refurbs, but not from a scratch build. One thing to think about, that is a real annoyance on my Hunts, If you need acess to that large cabin area, for your electrics, a sound unit etc etc, how do you plan to do that? I hate the access panel on mine (from the top) It ruins the nice cabin roof. You might want to consider an opening door or something as its a nice big area that once sealed up is lost. I was also thinking about access incase of accident damage to the hull? Just a thought,  :-))
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2009, 12:33:19 AM »

Thank you for your kind comments guys, I've just spent some time on today's update but the computer has devoured it!! It's much too late to do it all again so happy New Year to you all
Back again in the New Year! - Ramon
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2009, 10:04:16 PM »

Hi again, I hope I can get this right tonight!

Again, thanks for your kind comments on the build. Whilst I haven’t made a boat for over thirty years the techniques used have been well honed on building model aircraft – it’s been fairly straightforward – just exchanged balsa for ply and the scalpel for the bandsaw! That’s not to be flippant, ‘building’ is one thing it’s the technical side where a steep learning curve should be readily apparent.

The photo’s? Well that’s definitely down to the camera – a 2 mega pixel ‘Nikon Coolpix 2000’ bought a few years back at what seemed an exorbitant price and now they virtually give that size away with the cornflakes! It does have an excellent macro facility though and is so easy to use.

As you can see there has been a bit more progress. I’m quite surprised at this myself but then it is all the ‘big bits’ getting stuck on at the moment. Things will slow down once the ‘fiddly bits’ begin.
This shows fitting a couple of supports for the deck at the bows. Incidentally does anyone know of a source of these small clamps? they came three in a pack for a pound and I'd dearly love to get some more.


Water proofing the bows and underneath the deck using two pack Tufcote fuel proofer. The benefit of using this as opposed to other resins is that it dries very quickly on the workpiece but remains very fluid in the mixing cup for several hours.



I’ve decided to leave the hull skins to the last minute so that it will still fit in it’s building jig for working on the top side.


Regarding the cabin PMD I’m hoping to make the whole roof removable from just in front of the windscreen. If memory serves me right I think that’s how the original Aerokits Swordsman was done. Looking at the drawings of the Huntsman though I’m certain the roof has much more camber than the Swordsman (kit) so this may make the forming of ply to the compound curves involved very awkward if not impossible though it may be possible to ‘flatten out the curve on the bulkheads a little to improve matters a little. I’m not that far off – next session will be to fit the well deck sides and then dry fit the cabin sides.

Thanks for the invitation Andy I’ll bear it in mind and as I’m definitely a fair weather person these days the ‘Summer’ it will have to be .
 
Once again a Happy New Year to you all, back soon - Ramon

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dan

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2009, 10:26:49 PM »

very intresting, and its looking good mate, keep the pics  coming  :-))
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2009, 10:40:54 PM »

I agree Ramon, I wanted a one piece roof section, removeable, when I stripped the roof off. If you have a look at my pics from much earlier in this thread, the roof does have a difficult camber, and I was restricted with the frame work that was already in place. I just could not do it! :(( so resorted to the central section as pictured. I am going to try and hide the section, by taking it to the windshield, and to the roof grab rail, so in theory only the front of the removeable section will be visible, it I manage to get it neat enough, then that will do. I really fancy a sound unit when I can find one that sounds right, and the pocket permits! , so want the acess to the cabin.

Just finished the planking today, windshiled next :-)) 
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Seaspray

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2009, 10:36:35 AM »

They're loads of G clamps on ebay pricey thou, but I would trawl the local flea market thats where I get mine. Also Squires Catalogue 2008-2009 has them on Page 228. i find they tend to turn as you just do the last tighten up and the job goes with it. I still have a set or two of the G clamps but use the bar clamps or spring clips/ clamps now. I use to use Tufcote to as it went on easy over Humbrol paints on my I.C. cabin cruiser and gave a beautiful smooth fuelproof finish. Nice job there


Seaspray
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2009, 08:15:57 PM »



Hi all,
Things are steadily moving, and the transom is now finished and a start was made today on the cabin sides / cockpit coaming and the well deck sides. I’ve left these about 3mm above the deck level as a support and extra gluing surface for the coaming. Also fitted a couple of strips against the deck between the bulkheads for the same effect on the cabin area.


I’ve had a good look at the cabin top PMD and think it very unlikely that it can be done with one piece of ply stressed to the curve involved, not that is without severely influencing the frame work it will be attached to and subsequently trying to flatten itself out . I think it will have to be done in two layers using ply planks to reduce the stresses then possibly moulding and laminating a piece of 1/32 or even 1/64 ply over it for uniformity. Glad to hear you’ve made some progress too, is that the deck or cabin roof planking ? How about some pics? 
Regarding planking the decks I checked out the pics on the Fairey powerboat site of the original Ford sponsored Huntsman and it appears that the decks were painted white with anti skid strips on the fo’c’sle. (Am I allowed to copy a picture of that here Martin?)

Thanks for the info on the clamps, I think mine are from one of those ‘job lots’ that appear from time to time – when they’re gone they’re gone! Squires it is for now.

Back soon - Ramon
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2009, 09:51:23 PM »

Dont want to hijack your thread Ramon, it will spoil it, but I have copied the dark with white caulking interior, and the paler weathered exterior, it was a very difficult job getting the planks to follow the contour of the deck, particularly at the bow, it was my first planking project. If I did it all over again, I would probably not do it!! :}, didnt know the racing boats had a painted, with anti slip, decks,  :((

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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2009, 09:58:37 PM »

Righty then, lets talk radio boxes, as you're going to need one, unless your pockets are as shallow and you are as insane as Phil ;) ;D.

I and many others have found that the plastic ones you buy aren't that good and most end up letting water in.

The best we've come across is to get yourself an aluminium camping sandwich tin, Stick a layer of 5mm thick self adhesive neoprene tape right around the lip on the inside, then strips around the inside of the lid around the edge. When you squash the lid down and do the clips up, the two pieces of neoprene form a watertight seal. You can drill bolt holes etc through the box to mount it in the boat and to mount servos etc as long as you stick plenty of epoxy around the bolts when you do.

Andy :-))

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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2009, 11:04:14 PM »

Hi PMD
All credit to you - getting flat planks to lay flat in the curve of this bow cannot be easy. What did you use for the white caulking?
Having taken a second look at '909' this may be a trick of the light - they certainly don't appear to be planked - any one know different? See what you think here
http://www.faireyownersclub.co.uk/default.asp?content=archive&photo=8&max=8&min=5
http://www.faireyownersclub.co.uk/content/windows/showimage.asp?id=1
There are some super pics of more up to date Fairey boats on this site that may prove interesting too.

Thanks for this really great tip Andy, this side of things are not so far off so will look into it. Do they come in different sizes as the amount of space under the well deck is a bit restricted. I could of course put it in the cabin area but this will make a long run to the tiller. This sort of thing is the technical side of matters that I need some up to date thinking on but more on this a bit later.
Do you have any particular line of camping shops in mind?
Thanks guys :-))
Regards - Ramon
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grasshopper

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2009, 11:51:41 PM »

Great build Ramon,

My tuppences worth, as regards the double curvature on the cabin roof - I've heard /read somewhere in the past that if you were to paint one side of a piece of thinnish ply with cascamite and leave it to dry,  it curls up in like an autumn leaf, you then glue it to your frame work to flatten it with the 'hint' of double curvature.
If the roof needs to be thicker then repeat with more laminations.
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