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Author Topic: Tito Neri - How does it work (aka Which way do you push the ruddy sticks?)?  (Read 2845 times)

FullLeatherJacket

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OK - so I know it has two steerable Schottel drives which can turn through 180 degrees. It has a drive motor and a servo for each of these units. What I can't find or figure out is how Graupner intend the operator to........well.........operate it! Are the two nozzles steered independently or are they coupled together? Do you run one ESC to control both motors in parallel, or are there two ESCs? Are these intended to be run from one channel via a Y-lead or are they also independent? If so, does that  mean you've tied up all four main channels of the Tx  just to make the thing go forwards, backwards, round-and-round and sideways? How many bottles of aspirin does it take before you fathom out the stick-work required??

Please help - I have a customer who wants to fit one out and I'm unable to assist until I know The Magic Answer. No armchair skippers, please; I would like to hear from a genuine owner (presumably recognisable by having two hands on each arm; wild, staring eyes; a nervous twitch whenever you mention "joysticks" - and a bottomless bank account!!).
FLJ
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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It really depends on how maneuverable the client wants the boat. I have seen both done.
Ganged rudder and ganged ESC(2)  to two rudder and two ESC.


Here is a diagram of how a twin schottel can maneuver using thrust and steering.
The thrust vectors can be produced using FWD/REV on the seperate ESC, and
separate rudder control on the drives. Yup, Tied up four channels.

Without using the bow thruster I could get the Tito to crab sideways. :)

My client was very happy. ok2

These thrust vectors could also be produced using ganged rudders and two separate ESC
So Crab Left/right could be produced using the Steer Lef/right with one motor in reverse.
Saves out one channel.
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Colin Bishop

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Well, there's a nice little puzzle for you FLJ!

In an ideal world you would want everything running on just two channels. The direction of the boat should conform to the direction of the stick while the amount of thrust would be dependent upon how far the stick is pushed from its central position. Quite how you translate that into practice without some sort of computerised decoder I don't know, although you'd maybe only need one ESC.

Colin
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funtimefrankie

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The Graupner Schottels  turn through 180 ish    ...with normal servos. That is about 90 degrees either side of straight ahead, perhaps more with the trims etc.

The example above show schottels turning through 360 degrees, with the motor always going in the same direction.

On my set up in a Nageee hull I have both ESCs on a y lead and the steering servos on separate channels.
I'm still experimenting with the arrangement though!!
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towtug

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If you want to do it properly you need four channels on two sticks. Left stick forward/reverse and port/starboard on port schottle. Right stick ditto for Starboard schottle. This means you need two speed controllers, one for each motor and two steering servos. Towing depending on the conditions sometimes requires two units in use, occasionally one is more than sufficient. Once you have mastered steering the tug on its own then attach a tow and relearn the skills. Takes a little time but then you can put the tug any where you want it at any angle. Take it slowly, it is a tug not a speed boat. towing towards you can be a little confusing in the early stages but the rewards are great. ok2
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catengineman

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Now let me see if I can relate this to paper....

I own a Tito Neri and here goes. I have independent steering independent drive and you can operate from one stick if required.
I use a FX18 transmitter with mixing on channels.

in normal mode the sticks are [right side channel     1 & 2 ]
                                         [left side channel       3 & 4 ]
                                  [center slide right channel        5]
                                  [center slide left channel          6]
                                  [back slide right channel           7]
                                  [back slide left channel            8]
                                  [top module switch's/pots   9--12]+
when I switch on a mixer I can use chan 1 mixed with 3 this is drive motors = both on the same stick, same speeds, same direction
I switch on another mix and chan 2 is mixed with 4 this is steering same stick same direction
If I leave the switches on the OFF position I have control of port side speed,direction and thrust on right stick and the same for the stbd side on the left stick.
now I can change over to even more variations like one stick to control both 'rudders' the same but have independent motors this lets me have the 'free stick' to control the bow thrust.

Yes I get a head ache remembering what does what and why  :D but what a great tug to control and use in towing.
If I was running on a limited transmitter I would have two ESC's and then link the 'rudder' control, then limit the throw to that of just above standard rudder movement this is to give control to "walk" rudder to the opposite direction of walk one motor ahead the other astern (slightly differing speeds) and without the BT the vessel will walk. also tank steering is possible thus with a little switching the steering can be switched to another requirement.
The one thing you will have to do is make sure your steering servos are as strong as you can get into the limited space to stop the prop thrust overriding the servo strength.
R,
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Colin Bishop

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I think FLJ has not replied because he is deeply cogitating and desperately connecting ACTion components in all sorts of unlikely permutations to achieve a workable soution.

Expect a work of genius fairly shortly.....

Colin
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first tug

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I like towtugs setup but what do i do with the bow thruster ( how do you reverse and stop the thruster with out the use of a stick??? :((
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catengineman

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Question?
what transmittier have you got in mind and you can run a BT from a switch (on - off - on) with some clever wire setup. I use an ESC but have the advantage of lots of control points


R,
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