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[ambernblu]

Hi Guys...

I've recently taken on board(!) a Dean's Cossack kit and it is in need of a refurb. Didn't realise just how old this model actually was (and how much work was going to be necessary) until it arrived on my dining table! 

Anyway, I started cleaning up some of the externals, but also needed to establish the internal workings fairly quickly so I can run some trials before doing a full re-paint job on the hull. There are two Dean's Kondors (in good clean working order, but with no couplings) which previously had been 'secured' as per the Dean's instruction book with an elastic band through three screw hooks! Now here's where the age of this kit comes into the equation... the elastic has perished - gone, finitto, kaput - it is an ex elastic band! 

So problem..... next to mixing up some epoxy (which I'm not too keen on to be honest for this application, but will if I have to!!) can anyone suggest a means of re-securing these motors into position, bearing in mind the access is now mega poor (see pic) and lining up motor and prop shafts already looks nigh-on impossible as you can see! (motor virtually horzontal - angled propshaft!)  :(

No, sorry, I'm not ripping the deck off! 

Thanks in advance.... Brian


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[maninthestreet]

Is the motor loose, i.e not held down at all? If so can you raise the read end up with some packing, in order to line up the motor and prop shaft. and the use string elastic bands to hold the motor in place?

[ambernblu]

Hi..

Sorry, I don't think I gave the full impression here, but yep, I've had both motors out and I would have to pack them up etc to get a closer alignment with the propshaft, but for securing the motors down, whilst it may not be too bad attaching the first end of the elastic band, I guess its going to be well nigh impossible at the other end when the elastic is stretched and i can't see where its got to go!

To be honest, I'm not that much of a fan of this method, especially with these slim (and tender) hulls, nothing can move inside when she is under way!    I would have to be completely confident that everything was secure!

Thanks, Brian

[Colin Bishop]

Brian, is it worth considering bedding the motor in silicone rubber. It will hold the motor in place when cured and still give a bit of flexibility. If it needs to come out in future there are products available which will readily break the bond.

I agree with you, I like my motors to be properly mounted - bolts and screws and things.

Colin

[ambernblu]

Cheers Colin, not used that material before, but it sounds like a good idea - covers too potential problems in one go! I'll keep that in mind.

I probably need a sort of clamp that I could fasten around each motor before locating each one into the hull, lining up the shafts and then securing the clamps to the wood mounts??

Thanks, Brian

[Colin Bishop]

Brian, It's not an uncommon solution and you can buy the mini tubes used for sealing bathroomns and kitchens so not expensive either.

[ambernblu]

Actually Colin, that solution is growing on me.....!! I do like the idea of it solving the alignment issues as well! Yep, and bathroom sealer is quite cheap too. 

Thanks a lot, Brian

[Shipmate60]

Brian,
Yes I always supress motors.
To fix the motors in.
This is how I do it, hope it helps.
Measure the length of the coupling you are using.
Get a piece of brass tubing that is a good tight fit oner the splines on the couplings.
Make a 45 degree radial cut with a fime saw ( to let you remove them ).
Fit the coupling ends to motor and shaft,
The motor should hang in mid air, hopefully.
Check by eye the alignment including turning the shaft.
When happy with alignment, remove motor.
Either use silicon, which will sound insulste motor from the hull, or P38 which sets far quicker.
Spread it quite thickly under the motor bracket.
Slide motor into place.
If using P38 just hold in place for about 5 mins.
If using silicone pack the base of the motot to the correct alignment.
Allow to dry thoroughly, remove shaft aft enough to remove the tube.
Grease and fit the shaft and fit finally in place.
Voila
Aligned and secure motors!!!

Bob

[ambernblu]

Many thanks for the detailed reply Bob, extremely useful as it fits very nicely with where I was currently up to (getting my head around it that is!) but it also adds the final touch with the brass rod suggestion (brilliant) and the ease with which i should now be able to align the whole lot up - especially given such a constricted area in which I'm going to have to work! 

I do have some P38, but I think I'll give the silicon a try and do some preliminary packing/alignment before the 'real' event, which should make life easier on the curing stakes - again, in the confined working space.

Must not forget to suppress the two motors before they are 'fixed' in place. Its strange, but obviously the previous owner cared little for any suppression or for any motor/shaft alignment either! 

Cheers, Brian

[cbr900]

Amber,

There is another way I have acquired some plastic which when placed in very hot water will go clear and can them be shaped and moulded to fit anything anywhere, for motor fitting it is perfect, I was worried at first that the heat produced from the motor would soften the plastic, but have not yet had one hot enough, it is also once set solid enough to be drilled and taped for screws, works well, food for thought maybe..>


Roy

[ambernblu]

Hi, Admiral Roy, Sir... 

That sounds interesting, if not for this project then maybe another.... which plastic is it and where can it be obtained from?

Its not possible to fix anything down on the outer sides of the motors - there is no room to get even a small screwdriver in there - I had a bad enough time last night with the rudder re-installation and tiller arm coupling, with virtually no finger access at all (plus the flush hatch piece has gone walkabout anyway since the previous owner cut it out from the deck!) but like the motors, jobs like these have got to be done before the deck goes down! 

Thanks for the suggestion Roy (sorry, Admiral, Sir!  ) Cheers, Brian

[cbr900]

BRIAN,

This stuff was obtained from the dreaded ebay, I bought one and tried and it was very successful, have since bought about a kilo, have enough to last for a while,, here is the site over here it will probably be on over there as well

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DIY-PLASTIC-100g-The-amazing-mouldable-material_W0QQitemZ280030098144QQihZ018QQcategoryZ2594QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Have a look at the phone he shows which he has moulded, it does work as I made a new keyless entry holder for the missus as the silly old cow shut the door on the case and broke it, I was surprised how good it came out, and it even opens the doors...



Roy

[ambernblu]

This stuff was obtained from the dreaded ebay, I bought one and tried and it was very successful, have since bought about a kilo, have enough to last for a while,, here is the site over here it will probably be on over there as well
Roy

Roy, not seen this stuff before - looks excellent and I can probably think of a few uses for it already! Must see if i can get hold of some and have a play with it...! 

Thanks for that. Cheers, Brian

[barriew]

Brian,

I think its called Polymorph on eBay, but I believe Maplins also sell it.

Barrie

[ambernblu]

Brian,

I think its called Polymorph on eBay, but I believe Maplins also sell it.

Barrie

Thank you Barrie, I'll chase this up - must say have not seen this at all, but it looks useful for quite a few jobs....

Cheers, Brian

[tonyH]

Dunno if its any help but the red/brass couplings that seem to abound have a rigid red bit available to use instead of the normal centre bit. It's splined to match the brass inserts, is the same length as the normal centre and will hold the system straight.
As far as silicone is concerned, beware of full drying time if using a fair size dollop. Because it is air cured, the skin formed can give the appearance that the whole mass has cured and you can get sagging of the motor well after the whole thing appears to have stuck.

Tony

[maninthestreet]

Any of the motor mounts here useful?:

http://balsamart.co.uk/upgrade/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=262_285&zenid=8e72ef22cd6a3d4ef6eb40f8363cf45e

[ambernblu]

Any of the motor mounts here useful?:

http://balsamart.co.uk/upgrade/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=262_285&zenid=8e72ef22cd6a3d4ef6eb40f8363cf45e

Hi...

Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't seen those circular ply versions before - interesting, thanks. 

Dunno if its any help but the red/brass couplings that seem to abound have a rigid red bit available to use instead of the normal centre bit. It's
Tony

Here's the state of play at the moment - motors still unmounted - see pic below (been busy fixing and testing rudder/tiller and fabricating new flush tiller hatch tonight) I was never able to obtain the Ripmax 'rigid red bit' although I have one for the Huco? Dynapol couplings? - they were a sort of straw coloured plus brass ends similar to the red Ripmax ones!

Yep, that would have been useful, but the local model shop was unable to get a pair of them for this refurb job, so I'm using the Dean's couplings (supplied with the Manxman kit I bought recently) for the same motors and propshafts! They are a bit longer and far more lively, so I'm going to obtain some brass tube as per Bob's suggestion. As you can see though, will need plenty of packing to lift the motor at the far end especially, so may not need too much silicone - thanks for the warning - its duly noted! 

Cheers, Brian 


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[Colin Bishop]

Certainly does look a bit tight in there Brian! I reckon that silicone will do the job if you can get the motor lined up properly and don't use it too thickly as Tony says.

[ambernblu]

Colin... Yep, you're right - its tight! But now I'm also gonna get paranoid about the eventual height of the motors - not so much that they will be almost touching the under side of the deck, but the stability issues it may raise.

I think the original builder was less than keen on following the instructions about the prop/hull clearances  >:( - say no more! Its not too bad, (nor would you necessarily notice it from the exterior viewpoint!) but it means the shafts are at a slightly more aggresive angle than the plans suggest they should be - hence the internal alignment problem!

OK, I've just got one real rigid coupling now sorted so next job (after my brew!) we'll see how much more 'packing' is needed under these motors! I'm hopeful the silicone will literally act just as the adhesive. 

Thanks, Brian

[Shipmate60]

Good luck Brian, but you wont need luck!!
Believe it or not, shafts and motors are the bit I like doing most.
One other thing to consider is 2 rods on the tiller/servo arm, gives much more positive rudder response.

Bob

[ambernblu]

Cheers for that Bob - much appreciated! 

I'm slowly 'getting there' with the motor/shaft installation, is about where I'm up to for now, though unlike you, shafts and motors don't come exactly top on my 'most liked' jobs. It will be a relief when they are finished... when you can feel confident they will work reasonably well (its a bit like what you were saying about stripping a job down 'cos you keep seeing something you're not happy with!) But its basically one job you really can't walk away from until its finished satisfactorily eh?

Bit tighter still in the tiller compartment! I've tested my re-installation and its working great. I have however left the servo arm as a double just in case - as you suggested. See how she performs on her sea trials first (however many weeks ahead that may be!) 

Thanks for your help - regards, Brian

[ambernblu]

Finally some progress...!   

After playing with my rigid coupling (!) motor and shaft, I have fabricated two sets of chairs from balsa (see pic8 ) which will give the necessary additional height and angle for the motor and shaft alignment.

Onto these will be fixed (with epoxy) inverted motor mounts (ex fast electrics that i never built probably! - its amazing what you can find in your drawers eh? But then there's no SWMBO to clear things up and chuck important stuff out!  ) (see pic9 )

I anticipate being able to bolt these two mounts together in the centre, but will be unable to secure them further. The motors will then be installed by means of silicone as previously suggested...! Well, thats the plan anyway.. 

Thanks for your help. Cheers, Brian





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[ambernblu]

Quick update... Motor 'mounts' (which they are I suppose!) epoxied into place onto their 'chairs' after lining up operations completed!

Its looking good and I'm feeling more confident about this re-installation now, 'cos it looks the business at last.    So, just the silicone next to secure the motors to the mounts, then i can grease the tubes and fill the bath for a trial! 

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[Shipmate60]

The motors do seem very high.
Do you have an excessive angle on the external propshafts?

Bob