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Author Topic: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++  (Read 3446 times)

JohnneyBoy

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New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« on: January 12, 2009, 10:18:42 am »

Seems like some new rules have come in for travelling to the US.... (heads up).. make sure you check it out if you are going there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7822794.stm

Can't see I'll ever go there again.. seems too much of a pain.... 'less tourist dollars' for them  <:(
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tigertiger

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 10:25:21 am »

I think this may trip some people up. But if it speeds up the immigratin process (currently slow) by computerising the data they used to catch on a form you filled in on the aircraft. Then it is a good thing.

If they are merely processing the same data as before, but in a more intelligent way, it is hardly 1984.

Just my two cents worth.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 11:57:17 am »

Always baffled me that the US Authorities are making it so hard to get into a country where everyone runs around with guns shooting each other.  %) Maybe they are just being altruisitic in protecting us...
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JohnneyBoy

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 12:30:57 pm »

Always baffled me that the US Authorities are making it so hard to get into a country where everyone runs around with guns shooting each other.  %) Maybe they are just being altruisitic in protecting us...

Must be it...  :police:
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chingdevil

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 12:52:37 pm »

TT the new electronic forms ESTER does not speed up imigration they just allow you to travel to the USA, when you arrive you still have to go through the same customs procedure as before, why are you here, passport, fingerprint and electronic photo before you are alolowed entry. It actually states on the new form you can still be refused entry at customs even though you have filled the electronic form in. Apparently the USA wants to know of everyone who is going to fly to and land, or overfly the USA.


Brian
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 12:59:46 pm »

TT the new electronic forms ESTER does not speed up imigration they just allow you to travel to the USA, when you arrive you still have to go through the same customs procedure as before, why are you here, passport, fingerprint and electronic photo before you are alolowed entry. It actually states on the new form you can still be refused entry at customs even though you have filled the electronic form in. Apparently the USA wants to know of everyone who is going to fly to and land, or overfly the USA.


Brian

no change then !!

I was off the plane and in the country in 1 hour!

question: how do you register if you don't have the internet?
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Proteus

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 01:06:44 pm »

.



[/quote]

no change then !!

I was off the plane and in the country in 1 hour!


[/quote]

Yes but you where  chained to an air Marshal   :P


Proteus :D
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The long Build

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 01:07:00 pm »

TT the new electronic forms ESTER does not speed up imigration they just allow you to travel to the USA, when you arrive you still have to go through the same customs procedure as before, why are you here, passport, fingerprint and electronic photo before you are alolowed entry. It actually states on the new form you can still be refused entry at customs even though you have filled the electronic form in. Apparently the USA wants to know of everyone who is going to fly to and land, or overfly the USA.


Brian

Supa , at least it looks like they may send back undesirables to back whence they came, Maybe the UK should adopt this policy.. Ie sending people back.
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oldiron

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 02:00:59 pm »

 Ahhh computerized protectionism in the "land of the free" (haven't figured out who the free are yet). Its funny from Canada we can drive across the border at any of the standard entry points with only our driver's license as proof of residence in Canada. (that is soon to change in as much as we are going to have to present a passport). However, if we enter the States on an airplane or a boat from Canada we have to go through this new nonsense.   <*<
 When the fast CAT ferry went across Lake Ontario from Toronto to Rochester I tried it out. Good run. However, since we were entering the States from water we had to fill out the green card. Also we were escorted from the US territorial limit by and armed US coast Guard vessel complete with a guy on the fore deck standing there ready with an AK - something or other while all the vehicles unloaded. Considering the only place you can come from, into the States, across Lake Ontario, is Canada, why all the nonsense when we could have driven around the lake and gone over with no problem.   >>:-(
  I put it all under paranoia and lack of knowledge of the world.  O0

John
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oldiron

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 02:04:20 pm »

  Just another thought. This makes it a downer if I come back from Britain on a flight to Toronto (Canada) and we get diverted to Buffalo airport due to bad weather (not an unknown scenario). That means no one on the plane would be allowed into the States for the layover time (becasue we hadn't filled out the 72 hour computerized form) and us Canadians wouldn't be able to get through to drive home because we came in by air.................nuts!

John
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cos918

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 03:57:03 pm »

Hi  i have read this and cant see the problem.
All its doing is make the visa waver card electronic. It takes a few minutes to do on line and last 2 years. The only snag i can see id the lack of publicity it got.
John were you are on about a flight being diverted to the States. You would go in to the international transit lounge .. In most country's you don't need a visa as it not your final destination . I don't know how the US classified this.

john
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Tester

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 05:23:33 pm »

The main problem is as John says, a lack of publicity. I have been working for systems for this for over 3 years ans also for API systems for Spain. We are also involved with the new e-Borders system for the UK and the EU.

The aim of e-Borders is to electronically collect and analyse information from carriers (including airlines, ferries and rail companies) about everyone who intends to travel to or from the United Kingdom before they travel. This will ensure that we can:
keep a comprehensive record of everyone who crosses our border;
strengthen the security of those who live in and visit our country;
make it easier for those who are travelling and trading legitimately; and
maintain tight control of our border.

Some fun to come I think  :} :} :}
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malcolmfrary

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 05:51:48 pm »

One of the main rules of security, be it commercial or national, is that it must be seen to be effective.  A common measure of this is recognising that effective security will gather complaints.  The follow-on from this is that if a new system creates a great deal of hassle and many complaints, it must be a good system, certainly better than one that does't gather complaints.
Add to that the universal truism that most security systems are staffed by people who are otherwise unemployable, and most of anybody's queries should be answered.
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chingdevil

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 07:32:25 pm »

The problem I see is not everyone has a computer, no matter what people might think how do you travel to the USA then? Are you an undesirable if you can not use a computer. In 2007 I went to Niagara and I asked what I would need to travel to the USA across the bridge, at the time I was told you do not need anything you can walk across I though at the time it was a strange thing to say. Also if you travel from Toronto to the US the US customs is in the Toronto check in area, do you still need to get a ESTA before you travel?

Brian
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The long Build

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 08:09:04 pm »

The problem I see is not everyone has a computer, no matter what people might think how do you travel to the USA then? Are you an undesirable if you can not use a computer. In 2007 I went to Niagara and I asked what I would need to travel to the USA across the bridge, at the time I was told you do not need anything you can walk across I though at the time it was a strange thing to say. Also if you travel from Toronto to the US the US customs is in the Toronto check in area, do you still need to get a ESTA before you travel?

Brian

I don't see that as a problem ,
True to a sense that not everyone has a computer, however I would say that most/all people in th UK have access to one , either at work,Internet cafes, Libraries which have free use and friends and family who may have access to a computer.. Those who book via a travel agent no doubt will be able to get them to do the check for them , especially if they want the business and the check is a free service.
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 08:13:04 pm »


Yes but you where  chained to an air Marshal   :P


Proteus :D

they did search my bag going onto the plane and open an express lane at Atlanta.  what scared me is the last airport guard there was about 5'2 high. 7'2 wide (typical american) with a gun with a calibre measured in miles! not sure what was bigger, the 767 i flew on, OR her gun!  {-) {-)
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Shipmate60

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 09:07:11 pm »

When we went to the States last September half the crew were "taken to one side" and kept in a separate room for an hour, then allowed to continue on the journey.
While in the States the Florida Tourist Board was kicking up a real fuss about the way holidaymakers are being treated when entering the States.
There was just one thing about us entering the States we all have DIPLOMATIC visas!!

Bob
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 10:31:45 pm »

diplomatic visas?
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Shipmate60

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2009, 10:44:13 pm »

Yes

Bob
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2009, 02:26:44 pm »

just what is a diplomatic visa?
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Captain Povey

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2009, 02:42:30 pm »

I travelled regularly to the US in past without problems. I once flew from Bogota, Colombia to London via Miami and oh dear the international transit lounge seemed to be an alien concept. We were locked in room for hours and then had an armed escort to the connecting plane like we were criminals. I suppose that was preferable to what happened before which involved getting into the US and then immediately going out again. Travelling to Canada from Seattle was little better. All the US citizens went straight through but the Brits had to be segregated ind processed in a different way. I feel less and less inclined to go there thesedays for business or pleasure. Special relationship my foot?! Cheers Graham.
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2009, 02:56:48 pm »

flying from Manchester to Atlanta, they asked "has my phone been repaired in the last 2 weeks" showed them the glue on the phone after i dropped it, they x-rayed it, wouldnt pick up anythig other than be black box at the back, this they queeried so i had to take off the back, took the battery out, scanned again, CLEAR :)

boarding : bag was searched, CLEAR

landing in the USA, the entire lot went from the plane through customs, which I declared the souvenier i was dropping off, all $20 of it, hell not worth taking a chance so declared it.  CLEAR,

at the desk, greeted by someone who looked like heir Flick from allo allo, he asked 4 questions of me
"how are you sir, had a nice flight?"
"where are you staying?"
"how long for?"
"reason for stay?"

he then asked me to look at the webcam,
then put my left finger on the pad (he stamped passport at this point)
then asked me to put my right finger on the pad

followed by "welcome to the United States, sir.  have a nice day!"

time of landing, 16:00EST, time walking out of the arrivals door and into 96F heat around 17:00.  15 mins later im on the interstate, the operation ran like a swiss watch.  They know who they are after

My luggage: one suit case that would fit in the top box of a courier's bike and a hold all. 
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2009, 03:01:19 pm »

ps, and in some places, the perception is England is the capital city of London!
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toesupwa

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2009, 03:14:14 pm »

Flying in to Atlanta just post 9/11...

Him.. "Welcome to the United States Sir"..
Me.. "Thanks"
Him.. "Can i have a quick look in your baggage"
Me.. "Sure"

zip on camera bag opening...

Him.. "Is this your Teddy bear Sir"?
Me.. "Yes"
Him.. "Its got no legs"
Me.. "Yes I know.... Its a long story"
Him.. "You are British arnt you" (With a strage look)
Me.. "Yes"

Pause...

Him.. "Ok, you can go, have a nice day"...

By the way, I'm sure Non British citizens have just as much wait to get in to the UK at British airports..
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Max Power

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Re: New US Travel Rules... 1984++++++
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2009, 03:16:06 pm »

As far as I am concerned the biggest pain about flying to the USA is having to be at the airport 3 hours before take time  >:-o. The time taken to go through immigration on landing is USA is insignificant compared to this. Will the new system change things???
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