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Author Topic: Working with Lead  (Read 2959 times)

tony52

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Working with Lead
« on: January 20, 2009, 06:47:30 PM »

Hi All,

I have a 'Blockade Runner' Paddle Steamer, to a Glynn Guest 'Phantom' design which I bought at a 'bring and buy' sale.
When I carried out the 'Bath Test', I find the model sits too low in the water. Further inspection shows she has external plates on the underside made of 3mm(1/8") lead sheet, glued on.
I need to reduce ballast and can only think of 'filing' these thinner. Drilling holes may puncture the hull.
What type of file is best for lead? rough, smooth, or does anyone have any other suggestions.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Tony.


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DickyD

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2009, 06:54:51 PM »

It doesn't matter what you use it will clog up  :-))
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chingdevil

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2009, 08:04:31 PM »

Get a file, not a second cut rougher than that and file some french chalk with it this will help prevent soft metals clogging it up. Every so often use a wire brush to clean the file apply some more french chalk and carry on. You will get some teeth clog but not as bad as it would be.


Brian
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tony52

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 08:17:08 PM »

Thanks, Richard & Brian.

Tony.
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chingdevil

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2009, 08:30:02 PM »

Tony
If you do not have any french chalk, pm me your snail mail and I can send you some.


Brian
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Stavros

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 10:09:42 PM »

And PLEASE for your own sake wear a MASK



Stavros
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RickF

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 12:10:19 AM »

How about a "Surform"?

Rick
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derekwarner

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 05:08:48 AM »

Hi all....Tony...the lead may have been added to correct a stability issue...either way you will not know until it is removed....

1) remove the lead & check for stability
2) adding a lesser quantity of lead shot inside the hull is a consideration...& can be trialed & accomplished during another bath test
3) if the original mass of lead was needed for stability....all is not lost as you CAN increase the vessel buoyancy...by adding to the hull depth

Buts lets get the lead out first & the second bath test conducted.................Derek  :-))
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Derek Warner

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tigertiger

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 05:20:47 AM »

When I carried out the 'Bath Test', I find the model sits too low in the water.


Was this bath test with or without your battery in it?
If with, what type of battery did you use? The original owner could have used a much smaller battery.

When you say too low, how low is this?
How far above the waterline is the water?
How much freeboard should there be (distance between waterline and deck)?
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The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

tony52

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2009, 09:38:16 AM »

Thanks to all for the help to date.
Stavros - will make sure I wear a mask - we all know of the 'mad hatters' - workers in the hat factories who worked with lead.
Derek, Tigertiger & all, I have posted a photograph. The lead sheeting plates can just be seen. The existing waterline is to the top of the first plate line. With the battery fitted the water line is level all around, however with the battery removed the water line is correct at the bow and the same (to the top of the first row of plates) at the stern. The battery I used was a small 6v 1.2 amp gel cell. I would hope to replace this with a 'c' or 'sub c' pack. The weight would be similar and again this would be on a trial and error basis.
Probably these plates have been fitted to correct a ballast problem, the previous builder has however fitted too many. I would like use Derek's suggestion of internal ballast but to attempt to remove them could damage the balsa hull.
Rick, Some of the yacht builders recommend removing lead from the keel, with a surform, didn't know these still existed.

Otherwise this is quite a tidy craft, worthy of the remedial works. I think a reasonable buy at 40(before the credit crunch). After the plate issue has been resolved the dark green underside of the hull needs re-painting dark red, and some of the handrails are in need of TLC.

The Garden Solar Light is not mounted on the deck! My photography needs to improve.

Tony


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samuel15g

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 10:36:30 AM »

"Mad Hatters Disease" was caused by Mercury -- but take care with that lead anyway!
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tony52

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 11:34:13 AM »

Samuel,

Yes you are right! An error on my part. Thanks for the reminder.

Tony
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tony52

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 09:49:55 AM »

Back to this subject.
Hi all....Tony...the lead may have been added to correct a stability issue...either way you will not know until it is removed....

1) remove the lead & check for stability
2) adding a lesser quantity of lead shot inside the hull is a consideration...& can be trialed & accomplished during another bath test
3) if the original mass of lead was needed for stability....all is not lost as you CAN increase the vessel buoyancy...by adding to the hull depth

Buts lets get the lead out first & the second bath test conducted.................Derek  :-))
The lead has now been removed or filed thin and the repairs carried out to any damage.
The model now sits correct in the water(with battery etc. in place). It is stable and when pushed to one side will self right itself.
With the superstucture added, stability is poor. The superstucture has been built far too heavy. I studied Glynn' original item and he says to keep topweight to a minimum, build with balsa, and card. This one has been built with 6mm ply, plasticard and hardwood
deck planks. A new superstructure is now being built.

So to anyone building this or any other small paddlers please avoid falling into this trap. The previous builder has put a lot of time and effort into this superstructure and it is scrap. The quality of his building is good, better than the replacement one which I will build.
So the conclusion of this is for small paddler (or other unstable craft) and I will turn the caps on and shout.
WORK TO THE DESIGNERS INSTRUCTIONS. IF IT SAYS KEEP IT LIGHT,THE KEEP IT LIGHT AND EVEN LIGHTER STILL!

The external ballast had been added to try to correct a building error, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Tony.

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derekwarner

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 11:42:25 AM »

Hi all.....well Tony....you have resolved a few questions or issues with your paddle model...which is the name of the game  :-))

Many similar stability type issues are available for viewing & discussion on the Paddleducks Web site .....Derek
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Derek Warner

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Bee

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2009, 10:22:00 PM »

When you say the superstructure is scap I hope you mean 'saved for a more suitable model'  O0
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2009, 12:31:30 PM »

That does look a nice deep hull so even a heavy superstructure should not have too bad an effect - how deep are the batteries sited?  If the centre of gravity of the batteries is too high, everything else will be badly affected.
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TCC

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Re: Working with Lead
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2009, 12:31:53 PM »



Otherwise this is quite a tidy craft, worthy of the remedial works. I think a reasonable buy at 40(before the credit crunch). After the plate issue has been resolved the dark green underside of the hull needs re-painting dark red, and some of the handrails are in need of TLC.


Is that our kid?  ok2
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