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Author Topic: A sad end for a proud ship  (Read 6481 times)

maninthestreet

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barryfoote

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 09:06:10 AM »

Very sad and in my opinion a disgrace that bits are being sold off on ebay. No respect anymore!!
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tigertiger

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 09:14:09 AM »

It does allow those who served on her a momento, if they desire one.

It is still a sad end, but the way of most boats, sadly.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 10:31:05 AM »

An interesting article with some good photos but recycling of old ships is normal practice. When the old liners used to be broken up in the UK they would hold on board auctions of the fixtures and fittings. Some of the old Mauretania's rooms ended up in shoreside hotels where you can still see them today. The RN also keep bits and pieces from former ships. At the Britannia Naval College in Dartmouth they have on display the wheel and other fittings of the old wooden wall Britannia which provided the original college facilities while moored in the river Dart.

As far as the idea of preserving the ship is concerned, that was always going to be a non starter. If I remember rightly, she was in reserve due to her poor condition before the Falklands War when she was temporarily pressed back into service. After that, she was only kept afloat as a source of spares for HMS Fearless as the two ships were the only ones of their class and, apart from RY Britannia, the only ones in the RN with traditional steam turbine propulsion. The ship effectively became a gutted hulk many years ago.

Colin
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barriew

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 10:50:28 AM »

The February MMI has an article and pictures of HMS Intrepid

Barrie
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Bryan Young

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 05:57:38 PM »

I cannot help but wonder why people get so attached to a ship (even if they've never actually seen it). Ships are just a rather large version of the old banger (car...to avoid confusion) that you were really quite pleased to be rid of. All seamen have memories of and about the ships they sailed in. The "public" also will have the odd memory when the ships name is mentioned. But that is not a reason to campaign for the ships preservation. It probably costs as much to preserve a ship as it does to keep it running. How many ships do you wish to "preserve"? Where do you put them? Who pays for the upkeep? Get real, and realise that an old warship is just a redundant tool.
The idea of saving "Belfast", "Cavalier" and one or two others (not the really historical ones) is good because of the connotations with WW2 and so on.....but very few of the others qualify. The Americans do it pretty well, but they have no hesitation about scrapping an outdated ship (or aircraft) unless it has some major historical reference.
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oldiron

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 06:19:33 PM »

The Americans do it pretty well, but they have no hesitation about scrapping an outdated ship (or aircraft) unless it has some major historical reference.

  The Americans blew it, though, when they scrapped the carrier "Enterpise" after the war,. It had a presidential citation and was the only American vessel to participate in every major Pacific battle of the war.

John
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Bryan Young

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 07:37:07 PM »

The Americans do it pretty well, but they have no hesitation about scrapping an outdated ship (or aircraft) unless it has some major historical reference.

  The Americans blew it, though, when they scrapped the carrier "Enterpise" after the war,. It had a presidential citation and was the only American vessel to participate in every major Pacific battle of the war.

John
OK, grant you that, but the premise remains the same. Cheers. BY.
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Bartapuss

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 09:39:15 PM »

BY is right on this one, like everything made by man it only has a limited life span and besides at least the materials will be recycled and may end up in another proud ship somewhere.  <:(
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Pointy

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 07:32:51 PM »

Would very very much liked to have seen a British Battleship, HMS Warspite would have been ideal. :((
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 09:04:46 PM »

The Americans do it pretty well, but they have no hesitation about scrapping an outdated ship (or aircraft) unless it has some major historical reference.

  The Americans blew it, though, when they scrapped the carrier "Enterpise" after the war,. It had a presidential citation and was the only American vessel to participate in every major Pacific battle of the war.

John

according to Hazegray.org, and wiki, USS Enterprise, CV(N)65 is still in service, hell they only refulled her in 1995, she is due to be replaced in 2013 by CVN-X
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Colin Bishop

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2009, 09:14:48 PM »

He is referring to the earlier ship Ghost, CV6: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-e/cv6.htm
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Shipmate60

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2009, 10:28:19 PM »

She was certainly floating last september when my ship went into Norfolk Virginia naval base.
We sailed right past her.

Bob
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Turbulent

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 11:30:57 AM »

Very sad and in my opinion a disgrace that bits are being sold off on ebay. No respect anymore!!

I disagree, if my old ship (Berwick) had been broken & bits sold off, I'd have bought a bit - Happy days!

Ariel

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 02:02:28 PM »

I do think that far too quickly we scrap and dispose of far too much of our nautical heritage.

It is true to say that not all out there will have the slightest interest in this ship or any others that have been kept - and in any case of ship preservation costs are massive and the Intrepid is considerable in size, however people "do get emotional" about such events especially if they have served aboard such ships.

its been mentioned in this thread that Belfast and Cavalier have been kept to mark connotations with world war two and so on....well don't forget that this ship and quite a few others that also participated in the Falklands war back in 82 and have marked the memories of many servicemen that served in the South Atlantic and in my book they all have historical reference - all be it due to the many issues some financial and some political I agree we cannot clearly retain them all, but don't be too harsh to describe them as redundant tools - I think many ex veterans would disagree with you.



         
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Propslip

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2009, 03:30:48 PM »

I agree with Colin many parts from scrapped ships go on to give many years of good service. I seem to remember some the bridge windows from the Battleship Vanguard ended up being fitted to a Gem Line coaster (The name escapes me).
                            Propslip
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Bryan Young

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 06:35:37 PM »

OK then. Let's put it to the test and see what we come up with. Then we can whittle down the names to the most popular ones. Then we can work out where to keep it. And then we can decide who is going to finance the upleep, and how. By then you "preservers" may get an inkiling as to why they are just scrapped.
Personally, I would be happier knowing that a (very) good "classical" scale (1:48) model exists of each and every class of vessel complete with a walk-through interactive video of the real ship. This ever expanding collection could reasonably easily be administered by perhaps the "Imperial War Museum". But as a bit of "icing on the cake", so to say....the "collection" need not have a permanent home in a city that is a long way from where prospective visitors may live. Perhaps a circulating tour of residence, say at least a year, in 7 or 8 major cities would actually pay for its upkeep and transport. Then we could all enjoy the ships without having to spend a personal fortune to see (perhaps only once) a rusty hulk sat somewhere in the back of beyond. Just a thought. Bryan Y.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2009, 07:16:44 PM »

That's a very pragmatic idea Bryan. Although not possible in the past, it does offer a way of preserving the memory of historic ships which it would be uneconomic to preserve in reality.

What really annoyed me some years ago was the National Maritime Museum putting most of their wonderful collection of models into store in favour of "interactive displays". The well known author and newspaper columnist Libby Purves, who is a museum trustee, described the models as "Gee Gaws". And I used to quite respect her as sticking up for nautical interests. A good model is every bit as valuable, if not more, than a historical painting but the "Art Luvvies" just can't see that. Yet another example of dumbing down our maritime heritage.

For the moment the superb collection in the London Science Museum endures but I fear for its future as whenever I visit I am often the only person there. Hopefully we still have the Glasgow Museum though although I have never had the opportunity to see it.

Colin
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Bryan Young

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2009, 08:02:22 PM »

The Glasgow Museum of Transport is worth a visit. But then you are on the other end of the conundrum. Nothing personal, but whereas most of the "historic" ships were built a bit north of Watford, for some reason the majority of the interesting bits seem to have sort of migrated to the south. Now there is no Maritime Museum on Tyneside. This area produced a few over the years. And please do NOT quote the "Discovery Museum". For all the ship models they hold only half a dozen or so are on display. "They" are much more interested in extolling the delights of Peruvian hat making. I've often thought that Beamish would be a better venue. There, they have the space and expertise to re-create a 1912 shipyard (Beamish is sort of centred around 1912...nothing wrong with that). But all sorts of possibilities open up if the museum there could encompass shipbuilding as well as mining and farming. Bryan.
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gingyer

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2009, 11:23:21 PM »

The Glasgow transport museum is a must for someone visiting up here It has some really
top quality exhibits of not only ships but trams, trains, cars and even prams {-)
They are building a new museum alot bigger than the present one so hopefully
the council have used their combined brain cell and allowed space to bring ALL
the shipyard models out of storage O0
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brianc

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2009, 11:55:22 PM »

The Glasgow transport museum is a must for someone visiting up here It has some really
top quality exhibits of not only ships but trams, trains, cars and even prams {-)
They are building a new museum alot bigger than the present one so hopefully
the council have used their combined brain cell and allowed space to bring ALL
the shipyard models out of storage O0
I don`t think thats going to happen mate,
I heard on the grapevine that they are doing away with a Clyde room and SOME  models will be travelling along a conveyor system giving the illusion of them them sailing towards the Clyde >:-o >:-o
Apparently there is`nt going to be themed areas as at present but the exhibits are going to be randomly placed to entice the visitors to explore  O0
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TCC

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 02:23:16 AM »

The Glasgow transport museum...


Has anyone hosted a gallery of images of these ship models online? I'd love a cyber-visit there to look at them and gain a little bit of inspiration from them.

Anyone know of any images?

Cheers
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gingyer

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2009, 07:23:08 PM »

TCC
nothing that fancy yet but hopefully they may get their act together

Brian
with this council why does that not surprise me  >>:-( >>:-(
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Bryan Young

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2009, 08:22:39 PM »

Well I never.....not a single word yet from the "preservationists". I wonder why. Perhaps the realities are sinking in.  Even "Britannia" is from some reports looking a bit down at heel these days. But all is not lost!
Let's just look at what a preserved ship needs.....apart from the berthing costs and upkeep and so on.
1. The ship needs to be just part of a wider "entertainment" complex.
Look at the ones that have failed, "Cavalier" on the Tyne, because she was stuffed out of sight and had nothing "going for it" in the way of other attractions.
HMS "Plymouth", stuck in Mill Bay without any outside attractions apart from the drizzle.
2. "Warrior" is just outside the main gate of Portsmouth Dockyard. It is also within a stones throw of "Old Portsmouth", "Mary Rose" and "Victory"...and various other attractions.
3. HMS "Cavalier" is the centrepiece of a re-juvenated Chatham Dockyard. All sorts of other attractions there including aircraft and "how things were done" type exhibits.
Perhaps it is not surprising that all the successful ones are based in the south of England. To a degree, I would suggest that Northern counties take note of what an entrepenour can do, and give support, instead of sitting back and just saying "It'll never work". Beamish did, and does. But then so does Durham Cathedral without any overt support from the politicians. Alnwick Castle (not a million miles away) has prospered. And not just via Harry Potter. There is no logical reason why all our Naval heritage has to be based on the South Coast. With a population of over 60 million not all of them can live in Kent, Surrey or Dorset (etc). Perhaps it just takes a little "push" to get things moving up here again. Maybe. BY.
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Ariel

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Re: A sad end for a proud ship
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2009, 04:40:46 PM »

I for one am happy to see any part of our bygone Naval heritage survive in this day and age no matter where it ends up!!

(as long as its in Chatham, Portsmouth, or Plymouth or indeed any other South coast location where I happen to live...)   

 
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