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Author Topic: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK  (Read 39849 times)

madrob

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2009, 11:25:54 PM »

thanks bluebird
ill certainly be keeping a eye on this build.
Just spent a good hour reading the cervia build...simply stunning :-))
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Martin13

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2009, 08:00:51 AM »

John do you think its cheaper to build the hull yourself or to buy a GRP one?

A question i have asked myself a few times.  Just wandered what your thoughts were on it......


Gary,

I live in Oz and purchased a couple of GRP hulls from the UK, I also purchased a GRP hull from another part of Oz (interstate). On both occasions regardless of scale, the shipping/freight charges outweighed the original cost.

I am currently building an MTB at 1:16 scale and a GRP hull cannot be purchased at this scale BUT, I have double diagonal planked the hull on ply formers as per Bluebirds many builds and have had the greatest pleasure in doing so. TRY IT :-))

Their is nothing sweeter than building you own "all timber" hull, or as Colin puts it "An Organic Hull"

But as we say down here in Oz "Its Horses for Courses"

Martin doon under - and planning more timber hulls - it's cheaper
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Garabaldy

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2009, 12:50:08 PM »

Martin,

I have have bought 1 GRP hull and built 1 wooden hull and im currently building another.  The reason i asked is because i was so surprised at how much all the wood can cost on building a hull.  It actually amounted to being more than a GRP.  All the same though i do really enjoy building the hulls.  Its hugely satisfying.  Your MTB looks really good Martin.  Ive been watching the build.

One day i'd love to get to the same level of workmanship as bluebird.  I have spent many hours refering to your builds to aid me in my building and this is yet another one i will be studying for hours!  I am actually tempted to try a grey ship for my next build!  (that could be a long way off!!!)
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2009, 07:33:17 PM »

Hi there all

Answer a few questions first  :-))

go to the top of the class FLJ - it's 1:96 scale;  :-))  and at this scale she is a nice manageable size - 58 inches in length  - I did consider building it in 1:72 scale, but, it would just about fit the workbench and make it awkward to work on my excuse anyway

Gary          - you have opened a can of worms here my friend  :}  is it cheaper to build a wooden hull or purchase one?    Well, I suppose really it depends on the size of the hull/materials you use.   Having said that, what I tend to do is, when I am ordering the likes of wood for planking - say I require 100 pieces for the hull I am making - I order 150 so that I have 50 spare which sit in a tube for a future build and of course - these accumulate - same with when I order plywood - I only need one sheet but order 2  %%  it may sound like false economy because in theory I am paying for 2 hulls or 1 1/2 the other thing is, what you don’t get with a 'purchased' hull but you do get with a homemade one is you actually scraps leftovers and bits and pieces and if you are like me and save all of these bits and pieces in a box; you can actually build a hull for next to nothing from the scrap bits.  (Like the one in the picture here).

When you weigh up all the costs I suppose you do pay for plans/materials/etc., I should imagine it would in some cases work out the same as buying a hull – because if you buy the hull you still have to purchase the plan/materials to build the superstructure and so forth.

To get back to the build, I have been progressing putting the bilge keels and also the stabilizers; the bilge keels are made from 1.5mm Plasticard and they are secured onto the hull with 1:32 brass pins which are drilled into the contact edge of the bilge keel – and this is epoxied to the hull.   You will also see, I have fitted the sonar dome, which is made from balsa block  - this was given 2 coats of sand n sealer plus 2 coats of finishing epoxy.  You can see a pic of the stabilizer blades I am making and this is a sandwich it is 1mm ply with 1/16 Plasticard glued to either side with superglue and I am shaping this with a sanding clock and wet ‘n dry.

aye
john
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Martin13

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2009, 06:24:56 AM »

Martin,

I have have bought 1 GRP hull and built 1 wooden hull and I'm currently building another.  The reason i asked is because i was so surprised at how much all the wood can cost on building a hull.  It actually amounted to being more than a GRP.  All the same though i do really enjoy building the hulls.  Its hugely satisfying.  Your MTB looks really good Martin.  Ive been watching the build.

One day I'd love to get to the same level of workmanship as bluebird.  I have spent many hours referring to your builds to aid me in my building and this is yet another one i will be studying for hours!  I am actually tempted to try a grey ship for my next build!  (that could be a long way off!!!)

G'Day Gary,

I don't wish to Hijack Bluebird's build so if its okay, I will send a pm - love to chat.

John, is it okay to use Plasticard for Stabilisers? I was going to use 3mm ply sanded down at the edge instead - thought it may be stronger plus my bin of ply scraps is larger than yours ;D O0 O0

Can you please explain "Finishing Epoxy" - I inadvertently purchased this some time ago but can't remember why - can this stuff be brushed on and what is the purpose of using it. {:-{


Martin doon under
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2009, 09:36:30 PM »

Type 42 build

Installation of the main drive electrics

For the time being I have concentrated not on the build of the model but on the installation of the electrics for driving the model – the speed controller and so forth and I have also fitted the radio receiver.   Now, for this particular model I have purchased the ACTion P94 dual ESC (electronic speed controller) mixer unit.  To be honest I have been itching for a while now to get me hands on one of these.  Its okay reading – oh aye they are great, they are the bees knees and they are fantastic, but, how good are they?  Do they do the job?   

Really, to gauge something we need a reference – one of the same kind or of a similar kind – and at this time there isn’t a ‘similar’ unit – i.e. 2 speed controllers and a mixer all on one board in one little case – well if there is I haven’t seen it yet  %) .   

So what are the alternatives?  There are mixers on the market; of various makes; speed controllers on the market again of various makes.   If your pockets are deep enough, there are computerised transmitters on the market with the mixer programme built in.   This is what is on the market at the present time.

For those who are unfamiliar with mixers and wondering what they are all about; to give you a little insight their purpose is to aid the maneuverability of a ‘twin screw’ propelled vessel.   These allow you to mimic the actual functions of a life sized vessel by as you turn to say port – as the rudder moves over to the port side the starboard propeller speeds up and the port propeller slows down.   As the rudder moves further over towards the port, the starboard motor increases its speed and the port propeller decreases its speed until it comes to a standstill and then if you want it goes into reverse.

This tightens the turn of the vessel; it gives you the opportunity to actual spin/turn the vessel in its own length – once you have mastered the techniques – so, that is a rough idea of what a mixer does.

Now, how does this little unit stand up – well, if we look at first of all the 2 separate speed controllers and the mixer set up – the first thing that will become apparent to you is that you require the space for the 2 speed controllers and mixer and in some hulls, such as destroyers and liners which are sometimes long and narrow, this space isn’t always available.  Don’t forget with a long narrow hull the majority of the time you must keep the centre of gravity or your weight as low as possible in the hull.   So, there is one bonus point straight away for this small gadget, bearing in mind the mixer unit is only 74mm long x 50mm wide and 28mm high.

If you get the 20 amp version you must add another 30mm on the height, but, this is just for 2 cooling fins – which stick out of the top of the casing.  If these fins were any problem, no doubt these could be bent carefully at right angles as long as they don’t touch one another.  So what are the other bonus points on it, well compared to the 2 speed controllers and the mixers which are available on the market at the moment, you do not have any facility of altering the amount of ‘mix’ e.g. for the amount of movement of the rudder – to the speeds of the propellers.   On this little unit you do have  a little blue dial inside – and you can adjust this for your own benefit and your own model!    Do we have this facility on the computerised transmitters – well – on my particular Futaba – although I do have the mixing facility it doesn’t have this facility for altering this percentage of mix.   It is a case of ‘all or nothing’.  So another bonus point for this little mixer.

Now for the BIG BONUS – inside there are also 2 little switches – these 2 switches allowing you to set between one and four modes.   The first mode this little box does is allow each speed controller to work independently, in other words you use 2 sticks (left and right stick on the transmitter) as in tank steering.

In mode 2, there is a dual thruster mode – in other words you can use this unit for your bow and stern thrusters – mode 3 is 0 – 100% mix which is what we have described already; where the propeller speeds are mixed with the rudder movement and then there is mode 4 which gives you a 50% mix; where the motors automatically come in at a set speed as the rudder is moved over.   There is a lot more to these modes and their uses and these are plainly described in the instructions.   The other function is that you can actually add a third speed controller for vessels which have a triple screw – this is just a straight plug-in into the circuit board.

The other connections from the board are well marked as well – there is a plastic band around each lead – with an identification letter on.   This is an immense sight-aid for everyone and also, decreases the chances of mistakes.   Alongside these leads there is 2nd socket on the board which is marked H1 and this is where your steering servo plugs in.   Apart from these 2 leads and sockets there are also 4 wires which come from the circuit board which are your main power supply.   The reason there are 4 – is that it gives you the option of wiring 2 independent batteries up.  Although these wires are not marked with an identity tag, they are colour coded.  Red-positive  Black-negative.

Now next to these – there are 2 terminal blocks and these are where your motors are connected.    The only problem I did have – these terminal blocks they are not the push in and clamp down type (where I was pushing the wire in and tightening the screw it wasn’t clamping the wire).   When I had a close look the terminal blocks have a ‘vice-jaw’ arrangement inside them.   As you open them up, the vice-jaws open and you must place the wires between the jaws, not as I was doing on the top of the jaws  :embarrassed: then when you have the wire firmly between the jaws, tighten the screw and it clamps the wire TIGHT.  :embarrassed:

So this is all there is to the unit, all the wires and the connections.

How simple then is it to set up?

It took me about an hour, reading the instructions setting it up and then having a test of it.

As a side note; I showed the instructions to my son – and his knowledge of electronics is minimal – and my son had a read through and he said he would feel confident enough to attempt and install it into a model.   So the instructions which come with this mixer are very, very good.  They are not the standard photocopied instructions – they are printed and have 5 sides of clearly printed and coloured diagrams along with very explicit instructions in text.  The instructions explain step-by-step how to set up, and, also what all of the modes actually do.

So, how does it stack up? Does it do the job YES IT CERTAINLY DOES.

The one thing I did find straight away – what they call a ‘ramp up speed’ of the speed controllers – in other words how fast they go from zero to full speed has been smoothed out – so you get no steps in the speed.

The other thing is when you use the mixer function, where the old mixer was very harsh, in other words it used to go from zero to flat out with very little movement on the rudder stick, and this has also been smoothed out.  So the motors don’t try and rip themselves out of the motor beds – but it is nice and smooth running.

The only thing to be aware of is, although this mixer and speed controller unit work exceptionally well with modern-day /semi-modern day transmitters –  with the very early day 40mghz transmitters  we may have a bit of an issue.   This is the channel separation inside the transmitters was prone to ‘bleed through’ and as I have found using the Sanwa Conquest Mark II transmitter, it lead to a little bit of a problem.   As I had the throttle set on the left hand stick; controlling the speed controllers – and the rudder and mix on the right hand stick; what was happening was I was finding there was a very slight delay in one of the motors starting up.  I therefore had a mis-match of speeds.   The way I eventually fettled this mis-match was to move the rudder channel over to the left hand stick along with the throttle stick – so this gave me the movement of the throttles up and down and the rudder from left to right on the same stick.   This cured the problem.

So all in all how does this new unit weigh up?

YES a little pricey, but don’t forget you are paying for 2 speed controllers and a mixer here.   How much is a speed controller on its own? That is what you have to remember.

I have included a couple of photographs to show you the set up and what is inside, also I have included a photograph showing DON’T LOOK NOW MR JACKET an Electronize speed controller alongside the unit and at the back of it is a tobacco tin.  Now this will give you some idea of the size of this unit.
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Martin13

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2009, 10:31:01 PM »

John,

Do you get your Action gear at a special rate {-) {-)

The explanation on how the unit works is great and helpful for Newbies in understanding the units operation before purchasing. I plan to use Action in both of my current builds - I'm also impressed on your nice and neat installation - well done :-))

Martin doon under
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Colin Bishop

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2009, 10:44:25 PM »

ACTion give Mayhem members a 5% discount.
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Mark47

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2009, 09:19:45 AM »

Interesting read.

I may get one of these for my next build. If it will work with my old Futab transmitter.

Looking forward to your next instalment on the build.

Mark

As a foot note.

Please, please post the complete build? There are so many on numerous forums that do the hull, a couple of pics of superstructure and then fade away. Nothing on fitting and finishing, which order to do the painting and fitting for best results. I only ask because I have just returned to the hobby after a long time away and want to know how things are generally/best done now.

Mark
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2009, 10:32:17 AM »


A couple of points to clarify here :

Couple of changes to my original assessment –  :-))

1. If you are using two batteries they MUST be connected together in parallel first, not simply connected one each to one pair of red and black leads. The illustrations show this clearly - I am sure!   This is because any slight mismatch between them results in a LARGE surge of current as the higher-charged battery tries to discharge into the lower one. Without the external parallel connections this current passes straight through the PCB (printed circuit board) at a very thin point.

2. The Mode 4 (50% mix) doesn't kick in the motors at a fixed point. It does the same job as Mode 3, except that the inboard motor only goes as far as stopping at FSD and not into reverse. This is better for faster models e.g. patrol boats, while the 100% mix is better for workboats like tugs, or where you need a lot of leverage from the props to turn the hull e.g. a long thin warship.   :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)

Mark47; I did try this unit with a Futaba 4 channel 27MHz (a very, very old one at that) and this transmitter doesn't have the reverse servo function built into it - but the P94 still worked well with it - but a bit more 'fiddly' due to the fact that I had to swap some of the motor wires around so that the correct motor kicked in when the rudder was moved over in that direction.

The only problem I encountered was with the Sanwa Conquest Mk II - I must admit this transmitter and receiver have always been a pain, even with other speed controllers, due to 'glitching' and 'not performing correctly'.   The only reason I use it, it is very sentimental to me - as it was my very first 40MHz multi-channel which, whilst I was on holiday in Bournemouth I went into Westbourne Models and purchased it with hard-earned cash and I spoilt the rest of the holiday, cos I wanted to pop home and fit it into my model.

I will post more of this build as we go along, I am sorry I have no more pictures of the planking of the hull; but, obviously will take more pictures as we go along  :-))

aye
john



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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2009, 11:25:22 AM »

I may get one of these for my next build. If it will work with my old Futaba transmitter.

Exactly how old is "old"? If you have an M or J Series set (with the exposed pins on the servo leads) then forget it. Those were nice radios in their day but have a neutral pulse width which probably won't suit P94. I haven't checked it as I gave away my M Series to a novice aeromodeller in about 1973, and sold my own Conquest Mk2 to another Mayhemmer about 18 months ago.

FLJ

and, BTW, Bluebird gets the same rate of discount as any other Mayhem member  O0
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2009, 11:40:40 AM »

hi there

Mark47, if you think about purchasing one of these above units, the P94, I would strongly advise that you email FLJ of ACTion or ring him and have a good talk with him.  Dave will advise you of the suitability of this unit with your radio set up.    I should not have really mentioned trying it on 27 cos the 2 sets I have, have been altered by the previous owner  >>:-( >>:-(  .
 :-X :-X  :-) ok2

So, to be honest with you, I can get numerous things to work with these radios - the only thing I cannot get it to do yet; is to make the coffee or tea.

aye
john
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Mark47

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2009, 08:16:50 PM »

Thanks for the info guys.

Just to let you know. It's the Futaba Skysports 4, 40Mhz

Mark
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2009, 11:21:17 PM »

Thanks for the info guys.

Just to let you know. It's the Futaba Skysports 4, 40Mhz

Mark

Should be no problems with this set.
FLJ
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2009, 07:14:15 PM »

back to the build.....

couple of pics - progress so far.

As you can see - fitted the fittings required for the lower deck i.e. the bollards, fair leads and so forth.  These are glued into place using superglue - also, I also finished painting the inside the lower deck using Humbrol number 64 and number 27 for the deck.

Next couple of pics you can see is where I am actually fitting the main deck; first of all I spread water resistant PVA glue over the frames and around the edge; and then I held the deck in place using cellotape and as many batteries as I could muster placed on top  :}

After carefully trimming the deck flush with the sides, with various grades of sandpaper and filling any nicks or scratches in with car bodge filler; I moved on to put the side strengthening straps on.   These are laminated out of 3 pieces of timber per side 2mm thick and glued and pinned in place.   I am now in the process of sanding them to shape.   You will see how I get the angle for the top is by placing a piece of scrap wood under the edge of the sanding block to lift it to an angle and then slide it along back and forwards gradually sanding the profile on the top of the strengthening strap.
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2009, 07:16:29 PM »

and couple more pics showing the sanding process  :-))
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dan

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2009, 07:42:39 PM »

hi bluebird,
the progress is fantastic. i do like your stand as well, whats it made from?
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2009, 08:03:32 PM »

Hi there Dan stand its made from 18mm thick plywood - what I normally do is go into the DIY shop/hobby shop where they have a bench saw which cut the materials to size - have a rummage round in the offcuts box - cos the offcuts can be a lot cheaper than having the material cut for you direct from a new sheet - that is where I get most of my building boards from as well.   Even better if you can get to know the guy who operates the saw, like I know the guy in our local DIY shop - and he normally puts pieces of timber to one side which he thinks I may be interested in - paid about 2 quid for the material to make the stand.   Also the edge which comes into contact with the model I glue on some foam for a soft bedding boat  :-))   the foam I have I got from work which is a close cell foam similar to the type which machine parts come packed in.

aye
john
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dan

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2009, 08:10:50 PM »

thanks for the quick reply john  :-))
ill have a look at my local wood yard (two minute walk away) and see what i can find
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2009, 03:28:39 PM »

back to the build.....

couple of pics - progress so far


aye

john
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2009, 08:32:58 PM »

hi there all


Imeant to put this pic on earlier, but I got side-tracked.   The progress so far is; as you can see, I have sanded to shape the 2 strengthening girders which run either side of the vessel - at deck level.

These have both been given 3 coats of sand ' n sealer, along with the deck  :-))

Also, as you can see, I have opened up the deck for access underneath where the 2 main superstructures are located.    I have closed in the opening with a half an inch high  combing to prevent the ingress of water from the deck, if the deck gets wet.

the next part, the superstructure, is the good bit - I will add some more pics when I start it.

Also, given the bottom its first coating of red paint.   The paint I have used is Humbrol 177 hull red which is no longer available but, I have managed to source a similar colour from White Ensign supplies.

aye
john
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John W E

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2009, 09:09:46 PM »

Hi there

Just a couple more pics of the build - I started on the main superstructure and this is all made from 1:32 ply with Obechi square timber supporting the corners of the structures.   I have had to do a slight modification on the lower deck; on the Jacobin plans it shows the deck wings as a straight edge but when I have studied photos supplied to me by Holmsey of this Forum; it shows in actual fact that it has radiused ends.

The last picture you will see I am actually beginning to construct the bridge.
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dan

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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2009, 09:45:57 PM »

hi john,
beautiful build so far, i am a big fan of the warships.
just out of curiosity and NOT criticism, why do your prefer building in wood.
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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2009, 10:07:48 PM »

Plastic is white mans medicine to John  ok2

Bit like going over to the dark side.
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Re: TYPE 42 BUILD - HMS YORK
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2009, 08:11:03 AM »

Plastic is white mans medicine to John  ok2

Bit like going over to the dark side.
Could have sworn I typed magic, but it came out medicine. Doh %)
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