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Author Topic: black smoke  (Read 4640 times)

red181

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black smoke
« on: March 08, 2009, 10:40:24 PM »

well its that old favouritre again, I was wondering, as there are now a number of successful smoke generators on the market, has anyone solved that ellusive black smoke conundrum?

I came close recently. I have the hot wire/oil variety, it works well, just so long that I remember to top the oil up, or it burns out! A science teacher explained to me that basically, black smoke is soot, unburnt, and is a sign of inefficiency of combustion, hence modern efficient cars etc dont smoke, makes sense? So, he gave me what can best be described as very very fine carbon dust. I put some down the funnel of my smoke generator, hoping that the heat would make the dust rise, and discolour the white smoke, it went a light grey colour, but no better. Has anybody had any success with any other method?

 last summer, I was running the model, forgot to top up the oil, the smoke started to go black, Eureka!! I thought, only to find the hull was smouldering :embarrassed: :embarrassed:  Its the boat in the picture, Orca :-))
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TCC

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 03:08:16 AM »

You could set a tyre on fire... they burn black!  :-) sorry, it's late at night.

Why do I have a vision of you rigging up a fan to blow carbon dust out the funnel? It'll never sell you know.. not to people with clean decks... It may sell to to the 'tuggers'* though... I hear they're quite easily pleased.

* that's the owners, not the practicioners. :-)
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derekwarner

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 05:41:21 AM »

Yes....30 years ago I built a copper tubed boiler looking type device 4" diameter x 6 " high.....had a copper cup shaped device in the base & a copper lined internal dish with stainless steel mesh in the base

In OZ we carbon black BBQ lights ....so 3 x of these....seal the container up...drop a lighted taper into the funnel & ignite the BBQ lights

Wait ten minutes the inject sprays of used diesel sump  %% oil via a replacement automotive windscreen washer gear pump onto the smouldering carbon blocks...add a 555 timer & conrol the black clouds beltching out of the chimney via RC

You could not get away with this now with our current EPA Laws  >>:-( :police:..........nor would my current wife let me bring the vessel into the unit after an afternoons sailing & smoking....... :(( >:-o Derek
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
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www.ils.org.au

red181

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2009, 12:59:26 AM »

cant help thinking you might have something there Derek! :} charcoal...........hmmmmm :-))
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derekwarner

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2009, 05:38:55 AM »

...........hmmmmm ..I purchased a charcoal cooked chicken & watching the rotating chicken spurting maise oil onto the charcoal resulted in whitish smoke...where as the charcoal just burnt with a very light grey plume

Thinking   O0 this has potential I asked proprietier of the charcoal chicken shop if I could purchase a few hunks of charcoal [I think he thought I was  %% mad] & trailed this with the used diesel sump oil

It certainly worked & produced the black plumes, but the spurts of oil disentrigated the charcoal, whereas the BBQ lights have an inert bonder which held the briquettes for a longer time ......Derek
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Derek Warner

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Damien

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2009, 06:29:22 AM »

Delving into my memories of a young lad as an alter boy with the catholic church, I remember discs of charcoal that were used to burn incense, in certain ceremonies they would burn for half an hour or so, perhaps oil dribbled on to these would produce the required coloured smoke.
Chat up your local priest or Cof E vicker you might be surprised what you come up with, otherwise search the phone book for church supply companiies.   

Damien.
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Marks Model Bits

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2009, 07:21:52 AM »

My new smoke generators only require two easy steps to produce loads of black smoke!!! :-))
















 Step 1.... Connect the wires the wrong way round....


 Step 2..... Put 240 volts through it ;D ;D ok2 ok2 {-) {-) {-)


Result......... Copious ammounts of black smoke :-)) :-)) %% %% O0 O0

On second thoughts ....................perhaps not!!!!

Nurse................. My medication please %% %%

Mark.
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tigertiger

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 07:37:26 AM »

Careful Mark.

You are leaving yourself open to
"I was only following the manufactureres instructions"  O0 :o ok2
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barryfoote

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 08:01:26 AM »

Mark,

If you send one over to me, I will create a film of me doing just as you "suggest"......Now that could be interesting!! %% %% %%
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derekwarner

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 12:39:20 PM »

Sorry all....my comments were actuals..........I was just reporting fact..... O0....leave the chicken out of the equation  {-) but you stiill end up with GREAT black plumes of rancid smoke......... O0 ..Derek
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Derek Warner

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red181

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2009, 06:18:42 PM »

I wonder what would happen if I mixed the oil with a powdered charcoal lump, would it mix with oil, and poss produce black smoke when heated, or go clumpy and sink to the bottom of oil, or sit on top of the oil?

I use either the disco fluid from maplins (would have thought there was an additive for this, for theatrical/disco use etc, but cant find any), or baby oil, both smoke similar. I dont use a reservior of oil, but regulalr soaking of an absorbant material sitting under resistance wire, any thoughts Derek?   
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 10:07:11 AM »


Has anyone thought of food colouring ??  I know the colour might start off wrong, but who knows if it will burn blackish .  %)

ken
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derekwarner

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 10:57:40 AM »

Hi Ken....& nice to talk with you here O0 on Mayhem

From my previous [30 YO] trials .......I sort of eleiminated all of the smoking functions that did not work....including HI current draw Ni Chrome wire basking in drips of oil whilst consuming lots of amps being converted to  glowing wires that did  9/10s' of nothing  >>:-( <*<.....& produced little black smoke .......Derek
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Derek Warner

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www.ils.org.au

Tug-Kenny

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2009, 04:46:25 PM »

 
Hi Derek

Well this is the problem with wanting black smoke.  By it's very virtue, the fact that's it's black means there is something wrong with the engine anyway !!

I like my smoke white so that it drifts away from the ship and leave no marks on the decks.

I do have another idea for the buffs to experiment with. How about fitting LED's inside the funnel to shine upwards through the smoke. These will be reflected and refracted in the mist, and carry upwards, giving the illusion beyond the funnel. I know you cant get black light, but maybe a dark colour could be used.   %)

ken
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TCC

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2009, 05:09:27 PM »

I know you cant get black light, but maybe a dark colour could be used.   %)

Dark colour? Is that another way of saying black light? ok2

Isn't that an oxymoron? :-)
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red181

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2009, 03:46:29 PM »

well derek, thats for that useless comment, {-)   in fact, my hot wire, runs off its owm battery, so who care what the amp draw is, it affects nothing else, and actually produces 10 tenths of something, the smoke displacement is very good. this post is not one of the previously done "which is the best unit" but is infact, changing white smoke to black. As Ken has pointed out, black smoke is a feature of an engine that is inefficient, which was a feature of the boat I have, hence wanting black smoke
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Arrow5

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2009, 05:36:23 PM »

Black light exists. If you have ever been in a disco or similar establishment and your nylon shirt starts to glow with an eerie light then you may be standing under an ultra-violet light source.  Of course there could be other reasons but we`ll  leave that to your imagination :o     Black pyrotechnic model aircraft smoke isnt black either more of a dull purple allthough the military have some VERY dark black smoke. No experience of electrical (magic) smoke yet, hope I never do :-)
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2009, 07:19:46 PM »


Good point, Arrow5. I do know of black light, but as you say, it does make white objects Glow. This is then a step downwards as the white smoke would be twice as bad if glows as well.

I am for fitting purple and blue LED's inside the steam trail. I did try this with the MMB proprietor, Mark, on his smoke machines, and the light refracted up through the plume of white mist. this was then seen flickering about, causing a great moving dirty effect.

However, this does not show much in day light, but at night time you can see it for miles.   :D

ken

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h2osmokey

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2009, 07:21:05 AM »

NAPALM . . plenty of black smoke!! :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2009, 08:07:44 AM »

Black light is actually a misnoma.
It is soft light in the near ultra-violet range.

If you used it at night your steam my glow in the dark, but that is about it.
And then only perhaps if you used disco fog.
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wideawake

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2009, 10:03:36 AM »

Black light is actually a misnoma.
It is soft light in the near ultra-violet range.

If you used it at night your steam my glow in the dark, but that is about it.
And then only perhaps if you used disco fog.

Quite right TT.  Logically there can't be true black light as black is effecively defined as the absence of light.   Hence a black hole in space is something from which there is no electromagnetic radiation.   Colloquial "black light" depends for it's effect on particular chemicals which fluoresce under UV.  It first became popular in disco's when washing powder manufacturers began to look  for ways of making your whites look brighter.   They started to include fluorescent chemicals in the products which were transferred to the clothes during washing and when activated by the UV in normal sunlight, made the clothes look brighter/whiter.   Ordinary simple white paint won't fluoresce much, if at all, under UV.  OTOH you can get a nearly transparent paint which is almost invisible under normal lighting which fluoresces strongly under UV.  Great for FX in stage panto sets at village hall level.   I recall doing one which looked like a dark dirty cave until the dance chorus came on, when with a lighting change to UV spiders, bats etc appeared on the walls of the set and with skeletons painted on the dancers full body leotards, we had lots of Ooohs and Aaahs from the audience.

Guy - techie and director when not building model boats
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das boot

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2009, 12:03:17 PM »

You want smoke? Just let me wire up your boats....



Rich
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rob

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2009, 01:01:49 PM »

Back in the mists of time i remember using a drop of creosote in with the oil in a hot wire type smoker, for a very effective and smelly result. In these days of PC and safety elves i believe it is no longer available.. but there must be some in a shed somewhere. Or what about the modern equivalent in shed / fence stain ?
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red181

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2009, 11:50:24 PM »

interesting idea rob, I will give anything a try, did you try it in the past, what where the results like?
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rob

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Re: black smoke
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2009, 01:37:44 PM »

very effective and smelly !
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