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[victorian]

Here are a couple of pics of the model of the battleship "Sans Pareil" in the Harris Museum and art gallery, Preston. "Sans Pareil" was sister ship to the ill-fated "Victoria" and was broken up at Preston in 1907, hence the connection with the museum. According to the much - regurgitated Wikipedia article, the model was on the ship when it was taken to Preston.





I have many other pics if anyone's interested (all taken thro the glass I'm afraid). I have some questions:

Is this the builders model? (She was built in 1887 at Thames ironworks). It seems to be in the style of a builders model (appears to be 1.48 scale, no plate detail on the hull, unpainted fittings like the Nordenfelt guns at the bow). Wikipedia speculates about the model having been built on the ship. Is that likely? Wikipedia also goes on about what the awning rail stanchions are for!

The funnels are considerably cut down compared with photographs and circular rather than the flat sided section that's clearly visible. It's inconcievable that the original builders would have made such a mistake - but does the model show the ship while it was still building, rather than in service? It's recorded that the funnels on Victoria were raised during building and Sans Pareil's were built to match, so if these are the original funnels, it would help date the model.



The superstructure has been heavily overpainted in grey with what looks like crown emulsion. Presumably this is some modern restoration, but could these parts of the ship ever have been in grey? All the photographs seem to suggest white. Is the grey of any significance, or just to indicated that these parts of the model have been restored?

Are there other models of these ships in existence? There's a photo of a mirror backed half model of Victoria on the internet - does that still exist somewhere?

The museum have a photocopy of the particulars of sale in 1907 which details all the fittings on board including deck planking (3 inch teak and fir) which is interesting reading in itsel, but no further details of the model. One of the staff asked me why it was called 'Sans Pareil' and I mentioned that since the first ship was called 'Victoria', it might follow that the second would be called 'without parallel' since the obvious 'Albert' might seem a bit crass. I think that's what they'll be telling visitors from now on, anyway!

Any views on the above welcome! I've always thought of these ships as ugly ducklings, but seeing this model in the flesh I'm much more taken with her appearance. A 1/96 model would be a nice size, as well ...

Many thanks to the staff at the Harris for allowing me to take all these photos.

[Arrow5]

Interesting pictures of an interesting ship, Victorian. Try downloading Picasa free from Google , you can use an easy editor to get rid of the glare of the glass case. Use the "I`m feeling" lucky option, no skill required.   Wonder how many people know there was/is a dock in Preston?

[Liverbudgie2]

This model represents the ship as first built there can be little doubt of that, whether the funnels were elliptical or circular I don't know but they had certainly been raised quite sometime before the Victoria sank.  In all probability the ship had been painted grey after the passing of Queen Victoria.

As an aside there are some stunning picture on the web, somehere, of the Victoria sticking vertically out of the seabed off the coast of Lebanon at about 200-300 feet down.

LB

[jviewing]

Hi you may find this link of interest. http://www.lebanondivers.com/hms.asp

[John R Haynes]

All these types of models at 1/48 scale were apprentice pieces by dockyard employers. Usually two models were made , one for the reigning Monarch and one either for the customer or kept by the Yard .Vickers was one I used to visit , some Vickers models were given to the Barrow library.A small number are now in the Barrow  Graving Dock Museum , the rest have disappeared. The IWM WW1 collection , some  of which I restored in the  early 80's, were the Kings collection  and given by him to  start the IWM off.

I believe a lot of the models held at Duxford will be going to Chatham along with the NMM models since lottery monies have been made available . So , at last  this large collection will be on show.

[RickF]

There is quite a bit on HMS Victoria in Brian King's book Modelling Late Victorian Battleships

Rick

[victorian]

John: I'm planning a visit to Barrow!

Rick: The Brian King book is a wonderful source but I've lent my copy to Jeremy so can't look up what he said about Victoria. For anyone who is interested in acquiring this invaluable book, unfortunately the publisher in New York is out of business but a Google search might locate copies. I'd check with anyone who claims to have it in stock though since it was printed to order.

Studying pics of Victoria when new on the Tyne shows short funnels identical to those on the Sans Pareil model so this really does support the idea that the model at Preston is original and contemporary. As such it must be one of very products of the Thames Iron Works still in existence!

David

[ian kennedy]

Interesting model, I am currently working on a plug for Victoria/Sans Pareil at 1/72nd scale using builders drawings.

She will be a big beasty and will have to use pumped water ballast, and i intend to make her steam powered just for a giggle.

I remember Brians model very well and this is my source of inspiration, hopefully i think i can do it justice as a working model.

Ian

[victorian]

Ian, I have many more shots of the Preston model which might help your project. All taken thro' the glass of course. I'll send you a CD if you let me know an address.