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Author Topic: Cold weather glue  (Read 2166 times)

Garabaldy

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Cold weather glue
« on: January 19, 2009, 09:53:04 PM »

Well ive been planking up my latest build out in the shed and a frost came over night which has clearly affected the strength of the bond on all the planks i laid last night, i managed to pull some of them off......  Is there aglue out there which bonds to a satisfactory level in cold weather or am i going to have to wait until things warm up?  I have chucked big dust sheet over it tonight to keep it warm.  When does "it" became a "she"?
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boatmadman

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 09:57:10 PM »

What glue are you using?

I have used aliphatic in cold temperatures, the only effect being it takes longer to harden.

Epoxy is not temperature affected - its a chemical reaction.

I have also thrown a sheet over with a greenhouse heater left on underneath the speed things up.

Ian
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Garabaldy

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 10:00:03 PM »

its an all weather type pva.  I couldnt really say.  Do you have a link for the aliphatic?  Epoxy............sounds expensive.

I think i would be shot if i put a heater in the shed just to keep my model boat warm {-)
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boatmadman

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 10:04:38 PM »

I use some from my local craft shop - cant remember the name. Think Delux Materials do some though  http://www.deluxematerials.com/boatmodelling.html

Another good glue is waterproof wood glue by Bostick, have used that a lot.

Dont tell her you left the heater on :-))
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Garabaldy

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 10:07:43 PM »

Thanks,

The links to the glues on that website arent working......

I did find this though http://www.glue-shop.com/fivestar/woodwork-pva.htm but theres no mention on miniumum temperatures.... 

shes a physco!
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boatmadman

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 10:13:58 PM »

If you hover over the link you get a description, maybe then you have to go to the online shop.

I have heard that starloc is good stuff, for me though, 5-10 mins bonding time sometimes isnt enough, especially with difficult planks!

Live dangerously!!  :-))
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Garabaldy

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 10:26:30 PM »

yes i noyticed that was quick.  maybe its still workable after 5 minutes.

Grr horrible cold weather!  It was snowing here today! <*<
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StarLocAdhesives/FiveStar

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 11:10:50 PM »

All waterbased glues, or paints are sensitive to low temperatures in liquid form and as setting, but so are a lot of other glues and paints as well, its notjust waterbased ones.

The problem with a waterbased polymer products is that the PVA or other polymer is not dissolved in the water in the bottle, it is tiny little droplets dispersed in the water.
Once applied the tiny droplets slowly join together as the water evaporates to form a continuous film of polymer.
In very cold weather the tiny droplets are too hard to join together as the water evaporates leaving a powder instead of a film, it depends how cold it is obviously, you should be fine at any normal tempertaure.
Aliphatic, PVA, acrylic, waterbased contact, waterbased paint and varnish are all like this

The mimimum film forming temperature of our PVA and aliphatic resin is around 3 deg C, many paints and some PVA`s are up around 8C to 10C some paints as high as 12C.

Its best never to freeze any waterbased product as well, most will not take any freezing at all , the polymer drops are destroyed as the water freezes and it seperates out, our PVA and aliphatic will take an average of 5 freezing to solid and defrosting cycles, this is very unusual for any waterbased glue. you can tell if the glue has ever been frozen as it will be runny water and solid polymer at the bottom of the bottle, this will not mix up and stay mixed if you shake it, once it seperates it is junk.

 in general all chemical reaction type glues are slower but most still work, they take twice as long for every 10 deg C lower than room temperature, but once at 0C some tend to stop working such as laminating epoxy resins, most adhesive resins still set, CA is slower in the winter not due to the temperature, but due to lack of humidity on the surfaces due to low humidity in the air, there is a catylist in the CA to speed the cure with low humidity and low temperataure so you dont usualy notice the slow set in the winter with a CA

With our PVA, it has a secondary cure after it sets, to give the full water resistance, this is slower in very cold weather,in very cold weather you get high water resistance in a few hours after set, and full water resistance after a maximum about a week.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 11:30:21 PM »

The same applies to common fillers. I found on my full size boat that Plastic Padding in small quantities would not set as the temperature approached freezing. GRP paste was better in larger quantities as I kept it at room temperature before use and this was enough to kick start the reaction which then generated it's own heat so the hair dryer I took along wasn't really necessary. G4 pond sealer is good stuff in low temperature conditions though, as it cures down to freezing. It is becoming a common alternative to polyester and epoxy resin for boat repairs as it is a one part polyurethane sealer of resin consistency which uses moisture to cure - very useful on a damp boat surface in winter.

Colin
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Garabaldy

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 11:35:48 PM »

Ok then.....  :(( So the planks i have applied have this chalky mess all over them.  Am i going to have to rip them off and re-lay them?  The hull will be covvered in fibreglass when planked whether this makes much difference or not im not sure.  

Looks like i should try some new glue and buy a thermometer for the shed.  Or maybe i could be patient and wait for it to warm up.........
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StarLocAdhesives/FiveStar

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2009, 03:20:26 PM »

The glue will be fine probably, it is just that it was too cold to work due to our absurdly cold temperatures this winter ( we hve even been haing trouble in the factory dissolving nitrocellulose in solvents as its too cold) , maybe building early in the day and running a heater for some of the day, once warm the room wont chill too much till the night, this is what i have to do with my citrus trees, i warm them during the day an then let the room cool at night as they die if its too cold, normaly its fine this year its not!

Myself,  i would squirt thin CA into the joints if they are already made with the woodglue , but the proper way would be to scrape it off and re-glue checking the temperature if its powdery.
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Garabaldy

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Re: Cold weather glue
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 08:23:08 PM »

since i have done about a 3rd of the hull im going to try squirting the CA into the joints.  I just did a bit now so i will have a look later.

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