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Author Topic: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer  (Read 59592 times)

Martin [Admin]

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #100 on: July 29, 2009, 10:49:09 PM »


Is there such a thing as the French Maritime museum?
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #101 on: July 30, 2009, 09:39:43 AM »

Lots of them Martin, all over the place! French Maritime history goes back as far as ours and was very successful in general. Trafalgar was just a hiccup!

Colin
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #102 on: July 30, 2009, 01:44:14 PM »

A hiccup!
A HICCUP!
A HICCUP!!!!!!!!
Malheureusement my French isn't good enough to even think of contacting them.

Tony
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #103 on: July 30, 2009, 02:00:54 PM »

Lots of them Martin, all over the place! French Maritime history goes back as far as ours and was very successful in general. Trafalgar was just a hiccup!

Colin

Anyone on here know enough good French to ask one of the French museums to look up the 'bow spit' for us?   :-))
 
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Xtian29

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #104 on: July 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM »

Trafalgar

What is trafalgar ... Oh yes ... A submarine named after a square in London  {-)

Oops sorry, it's the name of a battle with the winner return at home into a rhum barrel ... Died  

A+ Xtian

PS Martin don't think about me to ask the question to a museum, my French is worst than my English  {-)

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #105 on: July 30, 2009, 05:19:25 PM »

And Waterloo is a station you used to be able to travel to France from - but not any more....
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Xtian29

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #106 on: July 30, 2009, 05:27:40 PM »

Yes it's a pity as it was a nice way to welcome us  {-)

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tobyker

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #107 on: July 31, 2009, 12:11:37 AM »

I suppose its asking too much for you all to stick to the point(y thing). I'm still agog to find out what it was (and thanks Martin for the enlargements).
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #108 on: July 31, 2009, 09:00:43 PM »

Hear Hear!

The voice of sanity!

It's all the fault of that Colin Bishop representing Albion Perfide.............

Martin asked the right question, whether anyone has enough French to contact La Musee de la Marine, or any of the others in France.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #109 on: July 31, 2009, 09:17:16 PM »

Moi?! I was just killing time waiting for an authoritative answer. From the photos I have seen of destroyers of this era there are two types of bowsprit.  One is obviously lightweight and is probably an aesthetic carry over but others are clearly more substantial and would appear to have served some other purpose, definitely not a spar torpedo unless the intention was to blow the bows off the attacking vessel.

Somebody, somewhere must know.....

Colin
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Xtian29

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #110 on: July 31, 2009, 10:04:35 PM »

Hello

Musée de la Marine ... forget to receive an answer  :embarrassed:

We just have to wait September and the return from his "retired holydays" of the right specialist for this French navy period and type of ships

What else ?

A+ Xtian 

 



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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #111 on: July 31, 2009, 10:10:33 PM »

I know how you feel!

It's daft, but I've just been through all the photos on www.photoship.co.uk (which is very worthwhile if you've an hour to spare) and there are several shots of French detroyers of the period, along with bigger ships and even one of their original subs, and ALL of them are shot from the back end!

By the way, I'm abandoning the mini version of L'Arquebuse because, following a discussion with Action it's unlikely that a small motor will have enough low speed control to verify or not the idea of the rudder ahead of the screws and the other, boat handling, part of the thread. I'll start on the 1:36 (5ft/13lb) version in the next few days because it'll still be an interesting build and I've got a better 'feel' for it having seen it in 3D.
Tony
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Xtian29

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #112 on: July 31, 2009, 10:32:31 PM »

Hello

It's a big challenge to built a 12oz regular contre-torpilleur with one "regular" motor for the two shaft.  But it's a fact that with this prop and rudder arrangement the Arquebuse class need to be built with two very small motors each one with ESC and then it's come a bigger challenge with 12oz  %%

1/36 looks a good scale  :-))

A+ Xtian

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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #113 on: July 31, 2009, 10:46:46 PM »

Hello Xtian,

The problem is that small motors are not good at slow revs. They do not have enough inertia to be smooth at low speeds, so it would be difficult to be accurate at mooring.

I agree that 1:36 is much better and we can then see whether the 'young designers' were any good!

Regards

Tony
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Xtian29

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farrow

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #115 on: August 08, 2009, 10:49:57 PM »

Hi Tonyh,
Many years ago I remember seeing a mod to an electric drive motor for a 4mm model railway loco. It had two big heavy wheel weights fitted both sides of the motor, this allowed the motor to drive the model at a very slow, steady speed, because prior to that the slowest scale speed was about 30 mph. Ido not know what others may think , but perhaps this mod might work on a small motor for you. I am just brain storming ideas to get over your motor size problem.
Best of Luck.
David
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2009, 02:33:45 PM »

Thanks David,

logical idea but weight would then be a tad of a problem. I have decided to bite the bullet and build the bigger version so we might get some of the handling matters ironed out, even if the 'pointy' matter is still unresolved!

Regards

Tony
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Xtian29

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2009, 05:18:41 PM »

Hello

Don't be affraid ... I'm sure we will have the answer soon !

A+ Xtian
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #118 on: August 11, 2009, 12:15:58 AM »

Yes we might  :o But x-mas is comming and we might get lucky
Freebooter :-))
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Xtian29

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #119 on: August 11, 2009, 07:19:20 AM »

Hello

I've call yesterday a modeller lover of pre-WWI navy and I was surprise to learn that he was building a model of one of this "contre-torpilleur de 300t" choising the Bombarde because he found many details pictures.  

On the other hand he said that there is a superb model of the Bombarde with the Musée de la Marine at Paris.  But like me, he said don't expect help from the museum staff ...  >:-o

Anyway if you want to built the Bombarde, there is no problem with Luc ... to share pictures and documentation with you. Take care he's a "rivet counter" - As exemple on this class of ship the real deck metal of the hull is rounded and the "walking deck" is above and full built in wood "caillebotis" (what the name of this in English ?)



So, Luc is building a 1/125 scale model with the full deck built like that  O0

He said that he have no idea about the bowsprit purpose but, as he have a lot of documentation on this class of ship he will search for us.

About the prop and rudder arrangement he said (like me previously) that it was no problem for low speed and harbor manoeuvre with two shaft and state of the art steam engines.  

So ... the discussion continue !

A+ Xtian

PS : PM send to Tony with detail and adress of this man

    

 
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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #120 on: August 25, 2009, 09:57:23 PM »

I may be wrong and my wife like all wives says I am usually wrong. But a suggestion I have is that these bowsprits all seem to have bobstay and shroud fittings, which says to me the strain is upwards and sidewards. So as this is a period when steam vessels had high consumption of fuel, an therefore short endurance range under steam, could the gear not be part of an axillary sailing rig. It is after all a long way from North France to the South French coast and one would not want to rely on Spain or Portugal to bunker ship as that would pose diplomatic problems in times of tension. In those days auxiliary sailing rigs on merchantman was still fairly common and I remember coasters with sails in the early sixties, the old masters often said that although they where fitted as an anti rolling rig they did give extra speed and where frequently used to gain an extra bit.
I am only brain storming ideas until some one comes up with the definitive reason from some old dusty manual.
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #121 on: August 26, 2009, 05:06:33 PM »

Hi David,

My brain, what little is left, has stormed..........

The idea is certainly a possibility but I'd have thought that the drawings would have shown more rigging/fixings.
Were they ever passaged via the canals and would it have anything to do with that?

I've got a drawing of one of the class that shows it fully rigged, so if you wan't me to mail it to you let me know by PM.

Regards
Tony

PS My wife has the same attitude as your'n.
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tobyker

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #122 on: August 26, 2009, 10:06:55 PM »

Does Caillebotis mean grating? As your illustration?
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farrow

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #123 on: August 27, 2009, 09:54:06 AM »

Hi Tony,
Regards the rigging plan , yes send it by all means, to me this has to be one of the most interesting subjects todate that I have followed on this site.
David
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Xtian29

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #124 on: August 27, 2009, 10:13:37 AM »

Hello

Does Caillebotis mean grating? As your illustration?

Looking on google with the word "grating" it look's like to be the caillebotis (french) in english, thank you Tobyker as it's sometime hard to found a translation tool for maritim term.

The whole deck of this contre-torpilleur is made with wood grating ! hard for a modeler !

About the sail on contre-tropilleur : I don't think so and a bowsprit is not enough ... where are the mast ?

A+ Xtian   
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