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Author Topic: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer  (Read 59628 times)

tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #175 on: January 11, 2010, 12:09:28 PM »

Just had another look at the pic in post 21 and it just looks as if the 'bolster' has just slipped down, leaving a flat end, devoid of anything.

We seem to be going back to the original idea of a 'parking aid'?
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #176 on: January 11, 2010, 08:28:35 PM »

PS. I've just had a reply on another forum confirming the 'fender/bumper' but I've followed up with the 'what circumstances/what for' question.
I'll report further.

Tony
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #177 on: January 11, 2010, 10:53:22 PM »

Try this on for size
 I'm bringing a long narrow thin hulled hard to control vessel at low speeds alongside a Trot of like vessels ---How would I do it?? The vessel has a bowsprit ---How can I use it to assistest
!) pad or fender the spirit to help prevent contact damage
2) rig a light Kedge anchor as far forward as possable (ie; off the bowsprit) to assist in contorling the bow and the ships speed (This is a ship handlers dream come true getting the anchor cable so far forward gives you a lot of leverage for moving and controling the bow.)
3) Depending on local conditions making my approach at about 30Deg's at dead slow -ahead-- at approx 75 yards  all Stop --- let go the kedge. ---Play out the cable---50 yards... Helm 20deg Stb'd... slow astern stb'd M/E ...stand by with fenders and the the spring .. slack the cable--- 25yards... all stop...check the cable... (this has the effect of slowing the vessel and pulling the bow to Stb'd...  heaving lines away...  pass the spring --- 10 yards ... surge the spring ...dead slow astern port M/E ... this should pull the stern in and so pull the bow spirit away from danger---5 yards...Hold on to the spring and the cable (the bow is now controlled between the anchor cable running aft on the Stb'd side and the spring on the port side) stop engines...dead slow ahead Stb'd M/E ( with the rudder at stb'd 20 deg. the stern should be gently pushed alongside and will stop us from moving astern) we can't move ahead because of the spring and the anchor---- Make fast --- stop M/E    Ring finished with engines ... Shore leave for off duty hands ...
By By   :-)) :D :D
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #178 on: January 14, 2010, 06:44:22 PM »

I'll have to let you drive the prototype JJ!

Just remind me to leave the fiddly bits off (Excluding the pointy thing of course) ok2.

Tony
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #179 on: January 14, 2010, 09:17:38 PM »

Tony
Sounds like great fun... Two questions ... When will it be ready for sea ? Where are you going to get the hands to handle the Anchor?
Your not to faraway as I'm in Kings Lynn Norfolk
Jimmy
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tobyker

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #180 on: January 14, 2010, 10:34:53 PM »

If you are on a trot bows on to something solid, presumably you could stuff the fender up against it at an angle and walk the stern in with the appropriate screw at low revs.
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2010, 12:00:39 PM »

Not far away JJ?

There's a zillion miles between Norfolk & Suffolk :P

Oi reckun that Oi'd after com over the border to, say, Eaton Park as nootral grownd!

I'll be back in the shed as soon as it thaws out and could have the basic floatable/steerable/driveable hull ready for April, so if you want to meet up for a try and a pint it could be around then.

Don't forget the screws being aft of the rudder!

Tony
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #182 on: January 15, 2010, 06:34:13 PM »

 ;)I remembered something I learned many years ago about a prop causing an area of of low pressure(suction) at the leading edge of the blades---If the rudder is close to the forward (intake) end of the prop's the flow will have some effect but not as much as it would if it was in the direct flow from the prop's ...also the offset of the prop small as it is from the centre line, will have a bit of a turning effect but the main turning force will come from slacking off or heaving on the spring or anchor cable ;D O0
--- Yes we could meet at Eaton Park if you wish, the pond there is super... Its just the parking and the long walk with heavy boats that let the place down...
Jimmy
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #183 on: January 15, 2010, 08:27:09 PM »

I'll get a PM off to you JJ.

Tony
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hitch12340

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #184 on: January 15, 2010, 10:29:25 PM »

The fat pointy thing is a French navy version of a petard.
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #185 on: January 17, 2010, 07:20:26 PM »

Hello All,

A suggestion for your consideration.

The combination of towing eye and bumper could suggest the ship being towed on a short tow. This would apply if the ship was set up for movement by canal. This would not apply to larger ships.

At that time, Suez was owned mainly by the French and also there are plenty of photos of torpedo boats ans destroyers in locations such as Ouistreham, Tancarvile and Agde which are on canals.

Possible?

Logical?

Proveable?

Tony
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #186 on: January 18, 2010, 10:23:22 PM »

With the French any thing is posable But I think even the British ones were rigged with towing points ... Many of these small fast ships had new and experamental engines even the older ones were pushed to thier limit and beond and breakdowns were rife, even on modern V/l's if you push the Infernal combustion engine too hard too often they brake --- one of the drills done regulary in the RN is towing drill --- I think the French couldn't have been that much diffrent and that being towed was a fact of life on this class of v/l ...Those of you that are old enough will remember how often the WW 2 MTD's used to come in on the end of a bit of string. For the younger ones think of how often modern raceing boats brake down
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farrow

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #187 on: January 20, 2010, 10:01:07 PM »

I think the last drawings possibly show the best reasons for it all, to assist in leaving when a longside a wall perhaps. A simple spring in the eye's then gently steam on it till you have your desired agle off to proceed out off the berth astern. Because I expect lowly vessels like these would not warrant a tug to assist. The towing point makes sense, as vertually all warships have built in towing points/systems.
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kno3

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #188 on: January 21, 2010, 07:46:41 PM »

please delete, wrong posting
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #189 on: January 21, 2010, 10:23:34 PM »

 " i think the last drawings possibly show the best reasons for it all, to assist in leaving when a longside a wall perhaps. A simple spring in the eye's then gently steam on it till you have your desired agle off to proceed out off the berth astern. Because I expect lowly vessels like these would not warrant a tug to assist. The towing point makes sense, as vertually all warships have built in towing points/systems."
 
Old Dodes
I agree, On the last posted drawings looking from the top and the side if the bit wrapped arround the outboard end of the bowsprit isn't a bow fender I'll buy the first round...
I said at first that I thought the bloody thing was multi usage and the more info that comes in the more I'm convenced that it is...!!!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #190 on: January 21, 2010, 11:17:06 PM »

Quote
I said at first that I thought the bloody thing was multi usage

I expect the skipper used it to help tell which way the ship was pointing too - just like the Great Lakes steamers!

Colin
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #191 on: January 22, 2010, 10:53:18 PM »

Aye Colin , Supply boats and some tugs as well
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farrow

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #192 on: January 25, 2010, 08:39:59 PM »

Well this must be one of the best threads yet on this site, as no one seems to have cracked it yet, perhaps some french researcher may come tour rescue and tell us all. But yes if I was driving that thing, I would lean on the bowsprit to get a decent angle of. Though to just add another spanner into peoples theories, in the med you usually moor what is called a med moor, ie stern to the wall and the bow lies to the bow anchor, except for large vessels of course.?????
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Jimmy James

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #193 on: January 26, 2010, 07:22:32 PM »

OD
  Agree with you on the Med Mooring system, But a lot of small war ships tended to moor on a Trot (Snuggled togeather like little piglets ) often alongside a Tender or Mother ship and it is often the case of get along side and snug down first and run out an anchor or two later if needed, in this case a fend off spar could be useful... also in some ports it is very dicey to go stern too a wall due to subsurface obstructions or shallow water which could damage your prop'(s) or rudder(s) so you have to go head to the wall... in this case a bowsprit could come in very handy to help launch, support  and recover a gangway... I don't mean to say this was the primary use of this spar... But I've been in the Med on Naval , Merchant And Large and Small Sailing Vessels and have moored stern and head to ...We used to deploy the gangway on the sailing ships this way because having the extra reach from the spar made it a lot easer to handle
Jimmy
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #194 on: January 26, 2010, 10:26:03 PM »

Good to see that the brain cells are still at work, even in the cold!

Don't forget that the placement of the screws and rudder could have had a severe effect on the handling. I'm hoping to see if that is the case with the model.

You'll be glad to know that I may have started an inter-French argument on another forum with the same question - so........

Progress on the model is slow at the moment - it's still too cold in the shed.

Cheers All

Tony
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rob

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #195 on: January 27, 2010, 08:30:30 AM »

I dont think I have ever learned more from a single thread !  thankyou to all involved .
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #196 on: January 27, 2010, 05:56:02 PM »

Thanks Rob,

I must admit that I never thought that it would run as it has with so many ideas and knowledge coming forth.
What fascinates me is the relationship between the model world and the world of real shipping and the way each can relate to the other.

Tony
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feinwerkbau

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #197 on: January 28, 2010, 03:09:36 AM »

Well I think I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here in regards to the "boxing glove/padded buffer" (although the "Arquebuse" plans show the area cross-hatched the majority of plans of the Contre-torpilleurs show it as open, more than likely a spring-steel loop, possibly covered by woven fender !). Ahh, and the plot thickens  <*<.

Roger.
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feinwerkbau

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #198 on: January 28, 2010, 03:15:28 AM »

Just thought I'd add this pic to spark the views/thoughts of Tony's intial post question  :-X.

Roger.
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tonyH

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Re: Fat pointy thing! - Arquebuse class French destroyer
« Reply #199 on: January 28, 2010, 06:41:35 PM »

I think I'm just going to sit in a darkened room for a few days/weeks/months...........

Tony
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