Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: union jack  (Read 10595 times)

davidm1945

  • Guest
Re: union jack
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2009, 06:19:44 pm »

Hi all,
   According to Wikepedia the Admiralty has deemed since 1902 that both Union Flag and Union Jack are correct usage - mainly because any flag can be called a jack!
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,514
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: union jack
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2009, 07:13:29 pm »

Am I right in remembering from a long way back that any flag flown from the Jack staff becomes a Jack flag?
Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

funtimefrankie

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,259
  • Location: Birkdale, Lancashire. twixt the Mersey & the Ribble
Re: union jack
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2009, 07:31:02 pm »

Here's what the RYA says about flags.....

Flag etiquette is a combination of law, good manners and tradition. Being ill-informed of your obligations could lead you to cause insult at home or abroad by giving a signal you do not intend to give, or could lead you to a fine for breaking the law.

Only with the right flag, correctly positioned, can you to be sure that you are giving the correct message and that any signal you are giving is clear.

The most senior position for a flag on a vessel is reserved for the Ensign - this is worn as close to the stern of the vessel as possible and denotes the nationality of the vessel. A UK registered vessel should wear the national maritime flag, the Red Ensign, unless entitled to wear a special or privileged Ensign.

The burgee takes the next most senior position on the vessel which is the main masthead. Only one burgee may be flown on the vessel. A special or privileged ensign must be worn in accordance with the warrant and permit governing its use and if required by the warrant and permit should never be worn without its corresponding burgee.

The starboard spreaders are used for signalling. This is where both a national courtesy flag and the Q flag should be flown.

It is now common practice to fly the burgee at the starboard spreaders, however, no other flag may be flown above the burgee on the same halyard. You also may not fly any other flag above a national courtesy flag on the same halyard. If you fly your burgee at the starboard spreaders and are sailing in the territorial waters of another country you have a dilemma, however you choose to solve this, unless you fly your burgee at the top of the mast you will be contravening one or another element of flag etiquette.

House flags are flown from the port spreaders. A house flag may indicate membership of an association (i.e. the RYA House Flag) or society or may be to indicate membership of another club, if the burgee of a more senior club is already being flown. More than one house flag may be flown on the port halyard, but with caution that they are flown in order of seniority.

The Union flag, Welsh Dragon and the Crosses of St Andrew, St George and St Patrick are primarily land flags and should not be flown at sea by cruising yachtsmen. At sea the cross of St George is the flag of an Admiral and it should therefore not be flown by anyone else, without special dispensation. A vessel flying the St Andrew s Cross could be mistaken as saying My vessel is stopped and making no way through the water as this is the meaning of code flag M which has the same design and the St Patrick s Cross could be misinterpreted as code flag V I require assistance .

The sizes and condition of flags are important. They should not be tatty and should not hang in the water, but should still be large enough to be seen.

Here's abit more info from a yacht club webs site...

The Union Flag often called the Union Jack should never be displayed from a yacht.
It is the proper flag for any UK Citizen to fly on shore but with the exception of its
use as a Jack in the Royal Navy, it is not a sea flag.
The Pilot Jack may be flown by those who wish to “show the
flag” on a British registered yacht. It consists of the Union
Flag surrounded by a white rectangular border and is used as
follows:-
· as a stem-head jack in the bows
· an additional dressing-ship flag to be hung on a weighted line from the bowsprit
· as a signal for a pilot when hoisted at the fore
Logged

Arrow5

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,873
  • Location: Scottish Highlands
Re: union jack
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2009, 08:30:51 pm »

Another detail of Union Flag usage aboard a Royal Navy vessel. It is flown from the mainmast to indicate that a Court Martial is in progress.
Logged
..well can you land on this?

davidm1945

  • Guest
Re: union jack
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2009, 08:36:35 pm »

Hi all,
   According to Wikepedia the Admiralty has deemed since 1902 that both Union Flag and Union Jack are correct usage - mainly because any flag can be called a jack!

Correction to above - it should read "mainly because any flag denoting nationality can be called a jack".

So, a Union Jack is simply a Union Flag.....

A rose by any other name is still a rose!
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,883
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: union jack
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2009, 10:33:08 pm »

Warships fly the Blue Ensign, Merchant vessels the Red Ensign.
All vessels fly a courtesy flag of the country they are visiting.

Bob
Warships fly the White Ensign. The Blue ones are variable, but the main one is used by the RFA.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Shipmate60

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,806
  • You bark - I will bite!!!
  • Location: Fareham
Re: union jack
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2009, 10:45:00 pm »

Yes Bryan,
I had a mad moment there, but did correct it.

Bob
Logged
Officially a GOG.

polaris

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 0
Re: union jack
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2009, 01:12:03 pm »


Dear Funtime,

Thankyou for the gnrl. info..

Problems can also arise when 'dressing ship', since the signal pendants in a given sequence might be perfectly innocent to many, but could be highly insulting to others in some parts of the World! - completely by accident obviously. There is a set procedure/layout to avoid this, and I have the 'Tables' in a RN vol. somewhere, but they could be out of date now. Probably these days it's safer just to use coloured triangular bunting!

Re Union Flag and Union Jack, well, Flag is obviously correct, but Jack has just simply come into common use - rightly or wrongly.

Regards, Bernard
Logged

farrow

  • Guest
Re: union jack
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2009, 08:50:17 am »

In answering an earlier question, only government departments or official buildings such as local government (councils) can fly a Union flag as per the Patriot act, ie it is illegal for a private subject of the crown to fly the Flag, except on special designated times such as royal visits when official permission is given so as to dress the area.. It dates from the the early 19th century, when the continentals where all having revolutions, it was imposed to make the monarch centre of national patriotism rather than the flag.
Also any flag flown from the the Jackstaff is called a Jack, some commercial Co's have their own jack flags, as to the Blue ensign it can be flown by any commercial company that has a RN commissioned officer employed as it's master. All civilian government vessels such as the RFA, fly a defaced blue ensign.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.091 seconds with 22 queries.