Model Boat Mayhem

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Author Topic: Bourbon Orca  (Read 121099 times)

deadwood

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #300 on: April 05, 2012, 08:51:49 am »

Hi Dave,

the ill-fated BOURBON DOLPHIN, which after the release of the findings of the Norwegian commission report investigating the tragic loss of ship and eight lives, must have left a noticeable dent in the reputation of the operators Bourbon as well as the builders Ulstein,
in fact wasn't of the X-Bow type but a pretty conventional AHTS design, as her builders were strangely eager to stress before the investigation commission, what can only be perceived as an exculpatory anti-advertising statement.
However, her builders obviously must have planned to deliver an X-Bow version based on the same particulars and hull lines of the A102 BOURBON DOLPHIN, which they branded as Ulstein AX102 type.
Yet, as far as I know, an AX102 has never been commissioned.

I made a wild guess at both versions' hull lines (as can be seen in this posting) on the grounds of above mentioned and highly interesting report which contains besides other technical reference a GA drawing, albeit of poor picture quality.

I suspect that the stern of my lines isn't quite correct though.
For once the flare angle of the stations/frames at the stern must be much steeper and exhibit an s-shape almost forming a concave (from below) tunnel-like trough.
Second, the skeg is probably too narrow since it must provide sufficient space to engulf the stern thrusters.

That's why I am also very keen on seeing dry-dock photos of the sterns of the typical Ulstein AHTS designs.
So if someone could provide them or knew a link where to find some I would be very grateful.

I too have planned to get my hands on the hull lines of BOURBON ORCA (i.e. the AX104, successor of the never built AX102) sooner or later which I will post in my thread when done.


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deadwood

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #301 on: April 05, 2012, 08:59:46 am »

Oops, sorry, I almost forgot to mention what a superb model Ian has built from scratch. :-))
It looks absolutely stunning on the photos he has released of its first lake trial.
I envy him for this achievement.
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Xtian29

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #302 on: April 05, 2012, 02:56:43 pm »

Hello Deadwood

I do not agree with your conclusion about dent in the reputation of Bourbon Norway as well as Ulstein. One of the main reason of this accident is the choose from the rig master of a non adapted ship for the job. Normaly the larger and powerful AHTS should be at the end of the line and smaller help as chaser. Here with the Highland Valour it was the opposite, then the Dolphin had the unfortunate quality to be the best manned at that time and the Rig Towmaster choose her as leader.  Anyway there is some strange things with the Dolphin as so many power and big winch for such a small vessel.   
 
About the AX102 versus A102, there is no real connection between this two types excepted the number 102.  You can see AX102 is only 140 tons bollard pull instead of 200 tonnes for A102  as opposite of deadweight  2800 tons for AX and only 2500 for A102  In fact the ratio of the A102 is quite crazy but the one of the AX is ok.

Then as you can see the first Xbow was an AHTS but no mor built since that time.  In fact AHTS don't need this hull. The Xbow hull is needed for pure supplies and of course seismic and construction vessels.

Then Bourbon Orca is a testbed for Ulstein Xbow, Odim and azimuthal props, and then she was paid not only by Bourbon.   From this experience it's appeared that Odim Safe Anchor Handling System (twin roller) is mostly a viewed as gadget and the azimuthal props is not adapted for the job as too much power lost.

The Bourbon Orca will certainely stay alone of this kind.

When you said AX104 is a successor for the AX102, it's not thrue. It's just another ship more adapted for the job with regular propulsion and stern roller, even so, the xbow hull is not a real need for operator.

I've seen your hull version, it still work to do on the bow or like Peter, when your hull will be finish you will need lot of sculptural work with putty to be closer to the shape.  Don't forget that a modern hull must be made with developable surfaces then even on the rounded xbow you can visualise that the surface is formed by moving a straight line in space this is in fact a multifocused conic surface. This not the case on your drawing but in fact Deftship is not adapted for this kind of work.

Xtian

 
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deadwood

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #303 on: April 06, 2012, 04:50:54 pm »

Hi Xtian

many thanks for your profound reply to my indeed weakly founded posting regarding my remarks to the BOURBON DOLPHIN (BM) capsizing incident.

In defence of my probably mostly misguided conclusions I can only say that they are based on my layman's interpretation of the Norwegian Inquiry Commission's report that I referred to above by URL and that I have to admit only have found time to read superficially so far, bereft of any expert knowledge from professional experience in matters of Offshore shipping and operations, left alone of any knowledge about the standard procedures and best practices of so called rig move procedures (RPM) or mooring anchor handling of these deep-water semi-submersible structures in particular.

Hey, I'm not in that offshore business and earn my living as a humble Unix/Linux sysadmin with no affiliation to the shipping/shipbuilding industry whatsoever, and some 300 kms inland away from the shores and possible areas of any maritime activities overhere in Germany.

But as I found out meanwhile by coming past the "Ships and Oil" website, even the panel of members of said commission who I would assume to had been recruited from the maritime industry and with a long standing background expertise in that field designated in their CVs, are from a different point of view (interest) doubted to have assembled sufficient anchor-handling expertise to satisfy the needs to pass a justified verdict.


...
The Royal Commission report extended to 208 pages without appendices, and was hampered by a lack of anchor-handling expertise amongst the Commission members.
...



As for my DS drawings, I am too aware myself of their deficiencies.
And it is not at all surprising to me that they may lack any developable multifocused conic surfaces.
But I ask you in all due respect, what kind of experience and ideas are we exchanging in this forum after all?
Are we supposed to construct and build real ships from our plans that amongst many other requirements they must meet are required to be produced in the most economic and effective fashion?
In my humble opinion I believe that the main requirement for a scale or semi-scale scratch boat modeller is to come visually as close as possible to the scaled down original vessel.
I can imagine only very few people being able to spot non developable surfaces on a model boat.
Besides the non fit for real ship construction under economic constraints hull lines that DS (or more rightly I as a mediocre user of DS) is able to produce, I dare to even claim that the meassured deviations from the designers' original lines plans if one made a model of both and towed them in comparison in a towing tank wouldn't be that significant in the end.
One also has to acknowledge that the models in the scales we model boaters usually prefer are immensely overpowered in relation to their originals due to the so called scale effects resulting from not correctly scaled down viscous effects.
So we need not fear unlike real world shipyards any penalties from their contractors should we miss a contracted max speed during sea trials.
Finally, if I take a look at some of the distributed model boat plans (e.g. that of PACIFIC BUCCANEER from the UK model plans service) which sometimes look as if drawn by hand (without the aid of rulers and templates/curves/spline) with a thick felt or marker pen, I must conclude that freely usable programmes such as DS are a huge boon to the scratch model boater who lacks any copies of lines plans which is often the case of very modern vessels such as those of the offshore fleets, and that they at least produce comparable results.
What years ago had cost days or even weeks of work, i.e. lofting hull lines by hand, is thanks to DS and similar software a matter of a few hours which could be even done by the "road worrior" on a laptop while under way.

However, I do miss the possibility in DS to insert standard graphical primitives such as circles, ellipses, parabolas etc.
That's why my bilge radii don't look that convincing when viewing the midship section.
But as said, on the model that should be hardly conspicuous.
Furthermore, are we commonly applying the plank on frame (POF) method where it is inevitable to do a fair amount of sanding and filling.
I assume an activity that we all loathe.


Btw, today I posted another DS exercise on an AHTS hull, though this may have relatively little in common with the original vessel.


Have a nice Good Friday and Happy Easter
Ralph
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boatmadman

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #304 on: April 06, 2012, 05:20:23 pm »

Blimey - chill out fella's.  :-))
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Xtian29

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #305 on: April 06, 2012, 08:18:10 pm »

Hello Ralph

It's nice to see that some people far from sea and shipping industries thanks to computers enjoy and are able to manage a hull form for scale model building. Here in France there is a man very involved in the production of modeller drawings, not AHTS or OSV but big yachts !

I'm naval architect from school, my grand father was also naval architect and I learned hull form drawing with him when I was young (paper and pencil and eraser ! )  I'm not here to give my CV but from many sides I'm very close to navy, tugs and offshore shipping industries.

About model, the most important is the pleasure and the satisfaction of the modeller himself then if I said some thinks about your xbow drawing it's just to help. It's hapen some time that the modeller don't care about the real ship detail and just want an "inspired" model some other are able to put a hull in the fire place because of a small wrong detail... Of course most modellers are more or less between.   In fact on a forum like here it's not easy to know who's on the other side of the screen.

As you can see on reply #13 of this post, I've made a Xbow hull for friends,  I have some compagny drawing for Bourbon Orca but my hull is not fully simlar as my friends was interesting with construction vessel.  Anyway the hull form with multifocused conic surface is respected.

I've also made one hull for me ... just in case ... in the future ...   Actualy I'm on other projects and my Xbow hull is in the granary.

I fully agree with you when talking about modeller drawing which sometimes look as if drawn by hand with a thick felt or marker pen  {-)

Happy Easter to you   A+ Xtian
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deadwood

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #306 on: April 06, 2012, 10:10:34 pm »

Hello Xtian,

It had escaped my notice that you already had built a mould for an X-Bow model because I joined this thread quite late, almost at its fade out phase.
So I had to scroll back to mentioned posting #13.
I am deeply impressed.  :embarrassed:
Your work looks very professional indeed, far beyond my scope of abilities and facilities.
It looks to me almost as if you were working in a ship model basin.
On the photo where you presumably watered your hull first time it looks to me as if this was done in a trim basin of such a test facility.
I know that towing tanks
(well, the few that remained in business, as CFD is catching up and ship building in the western industrial nations nearly driven at the edge of extinction)
employ professional boat builders that produce their test scale models,
of course because of mentioned viscous scale effects at much larger scales than us mere mortal modellers, viz. the largest scale towing tanks' cross section and depth allows, often models of some 7-8 m in length.

My personal model boater's horizon is pretty much restricted by my limited abilities, comprising craftsman's skills, capacity of my model yard, poor and frugal furnishing with tools and machines, and last but by far not least, my desolate, almost precarious financial situation.
And, not to mention of course, by a this hobby violently disapproving spouse who is haunted by her cleaning compulsion and hysteria/phobia for dust and dirt. <:(

May I ask you what software you are using for hull lofting?
You may probably know, is there any such software available that can be run on a Linux computer?
I haven't found such so far, apart from FreeShip/DELFTship which though compiled for the M$Windows OS can be run rock stable under the WINE emulator,


Joyeuses Pâques

Ralph


 
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Norseman

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #307 on: April 06, 2012, 10:43:14 pm »

The great thing about Mayhem is that everybody who actually takes part brings something to the table.
Thanks lads.

Dave
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Kim

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #308 on: April 08, 2012, 07:41:39 pm »

I can now reveal that there will be a fibre glass hull commercially available within the next couple of weeks. I have been working with a partner for a few months to bring this out, it has been produced from my drawings, the plug was cnc machined to ensure proper reproduction.  The scale is 1:72 so it will be the same size as mine.

I have been waiting for the maiden voyage to confirm hull performance before going public on this.

Ian

Cat is out the bag now ...

Guys, the hull will be available from Clyde Model Boats .... other manufaturers / traders have made me aware that you have been trying to find the source.
We did have a small version of a Clyde X Bow at the Mobile Marine Sow in November last year and will have the 'full size version at the Mobile Marine Show in May (19th ) this year.
It Is My hope that we will be able to sell the Clyde X Bow at the National's Show in April this year.

Just to get you  interested i will share a pic of the trial cnc plug with you...
Regards
Kim
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TugCowboy

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #309 on: April 09, 2012, 07:05:48 am »

and I'd like the second  O0
I think you're going to need a bigger notepad Ian

Regards Dave
Then I'll take the third!

Alex
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chipchase

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #310 on: April 09, 2012, 09:35:12 am »

The plug looks great Kim, I think you will have quite a lot of interest.

Brian

boatmadman

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #311 on: April 16, 2012, 08:37:23 pm »

I will be taking the Orca to the Nationals show on Saturday, so, if you are there, come and say hi.

She will be on the Clyde model boats stand.

Ian
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Norseman

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #312 on: April 22, 2012, 07:47:41 pm »

And very nice it was to see it in the flesh Ian - a lovely job.
pity I just missed seeing it in the pool.

Dave
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boatmadman

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #313 on: April 23, 2012, 06:02:17 am »

Here is a link to a video clip taken yesterday.

Grossly overpowered, but thats good.

She spins in her own length with the aid of a P94.

You can hear the rather noisy bowthruster at about 37 seconds in.

Ian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNW_mFkR7J0
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Xtian29

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #314 on: April 24, 2012, 05:11:43 pm »

Nice sailing ! And very nice to see this king of hull on pond.  Hope for more and more

Xtian
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stephanedu14

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Re: Bourbon Orca
« Reply #315 on: July 04, 2012, 09:51:21 pm »

Hello to all.
I put a bit of time to look at the post.
It is a very beautiful Director, and the navigation is superb.
There are you he news of the commercialization of the fibreglass hull,
and may be a photo plate kit cut metal parts to make the detaillage.
Of v ur future construction online I will be among others to follow him.

Bonjour a tous.
J'ai mis un peu de temps pour regarder le post.
C'est une trés belle réalisation,et la navigation est superbe.
Il y a t'il des nouvelles de la commerçialisation de la coque en fibre de verre,
et peut etre un kit de planche en photo découpe des piéces métalique pour faire du détaillage.
Dés v otre futur construction mise en ligne je serai parmi d'autres pour le suivre.
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