Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?  (Read 5075 times)

DickyD

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,497
  • www.srcmbc.org.uk
  • Location: Southampton UK
    • SRCMBC
UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« on: June 18, 2009, 06:17:08 PM »

Daily Mail today

Gipsies and travellers should be given priority in NHS hospitals and GP surgeries, doctors have been told.

They will be fast-tracked for doctors, nurses and even some dentist appointments above all other patients.

GPs have also been told to see any travellers who simply walk in without an appointment, even if all consultation times for the day are full.
Who's jumping the queue? Waiting in line to see a GP

Wait for it: GPs have been told to see any travellers who simply walk in - even if all consultation times for the day are full. They will also be fast-tracked for nurses and dental appointments

They will also be given longer consultations than other patients. Five or ten minutes is the average but travellers will be given 20 minutes and allowed to bring relatives into the consulting rooms.

Staff will be given 'mandatory cultural awareness' training so they can fully understand what it is like to be a traveller or gipsy.

It raises the prospect that other patients will suffer worse healthcare and have to wait even longer to see their GP.

The guidelines have been introduced because, under race laws, gipsies and travellers are defined as minority ethnic groups and the NHS is obliged to consider their special needs and circumstances.

Yet no special treatment is promised for other groups such as those from the Asian sub-continent or Africa.

The guidance also encourages Primary Care Trusts to establish new services for travellers if none exist, and to designate a senior manager to be a named lead for 'Gipsy and Traveller Health'.

The rules form part of the Primary Care Service Framework, drawn up by the NHS Primary Care Commissioning - an advisory service for local health trusts - to help all PCTs understand the Department of Health's policy.
gypsy health.jpg

It will go on trial for between three and five years, Although PCTs do not necessarily have to follow the guidelines, they could be breaking human rights law and the Race Relations Act of 2000 if they do not.

Groups covered by the framework include Scottish gipsy travellers, Welsh gipsies, bargees, circus and fairground showmen and new travellers.

Tory health spokesman Andrew Lansley said: 'No one should get priority treatment in the NHS apart from our Armed Forces, to whom we owe a special debt of gratitude.

'Decisions about who should be treated first should be based on a patient's medical needs, not their ethnic group.

'NHS managers need to get off doctors' and nurses' backs and start letting them get on with what they do best - looking after sick people.

'Such a policy of fast-tracking one section of society over another goes against the founding principles of the NHS.

Labour's botched handling of the new GP contracts and obsession with a tick-box target culture in the NHS mean many people find it difficult to get a GP appointment quickly.

'Families will feel aggrieved that it will now be even harder.'

Mark Wallace, from the Tax-Payers' Alliance, said: 'This kind of special treatment is totally uncalled-for and utterly unjustified.

'The NHS is meant to treat people equally so matter who they are or whatever their race.
Gypsy and travellers

Groups covered by the framework include Scottish gipsy travellers, Welsh gipsies, bargees, circus and fairground showmen and new travellers

'The only priority should be how ill someone is, not their politically-correct concerns.

'This will be incredibly frustrating for people who have paid tax all their lives to fund the NHS and are left struggling to get a doctor's appointment and prompt treatment. H

'Hardworking people will be outraged at this double standard.'

The NHS estimates there are 120,000 to 300,000 gipsies and travellers in the UK but there are no firm numbers as the census does not include them as a category.

Traveller spokesman Gratton Puxon, from the illegal camp at Crays Hill in Essex, welcomed the initiative.

He said: 'The problem stems from years ago when there was simply no access to healthcare, but things have greatly improved. Health workers visit the site quite regularly if people have chronic problems.'

The Department of Health said: 'We are aware that gipsies and travellers have experienced tremendous difficulties in accessing primary care.

'Partly as a result, community members experience the worst health inequalities of any disadvantaged group.

'The framework suggests fast-tracking for two reasons. First, as a matter of urgency, inroads need to be made into the health problems of gipsies and travellers.

'Second, if mobile community members are not seen quickly, the opportunity could be lost as they move on or are moved on. This should not be to the detriment of service provision to the settled community.'
Logged
Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

Mark47

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 06:26:48 PM »

There are a coupled of points I would like to pick up on, but why bother the goverment does what it wants because it can.

My overall feeling about this is.  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

But as it's an open forum.  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Mark
Logged

sheerline

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Location: Norfolk
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2009, 08:13:19 AM »

I have also heard that one council is to spend 47000-00 of the taxpayers money on a Gypsy awareness week in their schools.
I can only repeat, we get the government we deserve because people won't vote! Now will people believe we the working class taxpayers are truly second class citizens, just cattle to be milked so this ruddy shower we call a government can wreck our country.
It seems that the less you pay into this society, the further up the pecking order you go but as a taxpayer, you fall of the bottom and land on your ar-e. I think we have all got it wrong somewhere, perhaps if we all dropped out, we might get some  of the sterling service enjoyed by our minority group counterparts
Because a law was passed stating that Gypsies are 'a minority ethnic group' we now find ourselves cornered yet again, controlled in such a way that mere discussion of the subject means the liberal pc brigade will be watching, waiting to pounce, so they can scream their favourite word 'racist' at anyone who starts discussing these people in any kind of negative way.
I concurr with Mark47 but would get finger ache pressing  this<*< button as much as I would like.
As usual, I am disgusted.... but not surprised!
Logged

andygh

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 08:19:30 AM »

Daily Mail..... say no more  %)
Logged

DickyD

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,497
  • www.srcmbc.org.uk
  • Location: Southampton UK
    • SRCMBC
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 08:36:28 AM »

Daily Mail..... say no more  %)
Dont dismiss it because its the Daily Mail, my wife works for the NHS and she has been hearing this through the grapevine for some time.
Logged
Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

sheerline

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Location: Norfolk
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 08:43:52 AM »

Why hasn't it appeared on the tv news media or am I correct in thinking that it may have been supressed ! %)
Dicky, your thread is titled 'Unvbelievable? ' Maybe you should have been entitled.....'BELIEVABLE' as with each day that passes we become less and less surprised at the way we are being treated...... or in the NHS sense...'not treated'!
 
Logged

hopeitfloats

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 09:02:39 AM »

welcome to the world of PC. we have been getting that sort of rubbish for years. the latest suggestion is that a certain section of the population (thats me being PC) should get automatic entry into universities regardless of educational background.
Logged

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,109
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 09:25:04 AM »


      But as it's an open forum.  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


Yes. Good. Thanks Mark!    Don't want to dealing with any spats this weekend ladies and gentlemen.    :-))
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

maninthestreet

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 319
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2009, 10:21:43 PM »

At least I suppose allowing them to jump the queue in a doctor's surgery may prevent them from trying to flog 'lucky' heather to the other patients in the waiting room.
Logged

DieselDo

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2009, 12:35:46 AM »

What is unbelievable?
You reading the Mail or the article   :}
Logged

Captain Jack

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2009, 02:49:29 AM »

Now, just wait a damned minute....did you guys elect Obama too?
Logged

maninthestreet

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 319
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2009, 07:59:06 PM »

Now, just wait a damned minute....did you guys elect Obama too?

No - we elected a bunch of cultural Marxists in 1997 who have been wrecking our country for the last 12 years.
Logged

wombat

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 642
  • The view from the shallow end of the gene pool
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2009, 09:47:42 PM »

At the risk of spoiling a good argument with facts, here are the guidelines:

http://www.pcc.nhs.uk/uploads/primary_care_service_frameworks/2009/ehrg_gypsies_and_travellers_pcsf_190509.pdf

Here is the report referenced in those guidelines:

http://www.shef.ac.uk/content/1/c6/02/55/71/GT%20report%20summary.pdf

The justification for offering the priority to the various nomadic groups is that they show significantly poorer levels of health than other disadvantaged groups.

Quote
There is now little doubt that health inequality between
the observed Gypsy Traveller population in England and their non-Gypsy
counterparts is striking, even when compared with other socially deprived or excluded
groups and with other ethnic minorities

Wom
Logged
The prat in the hat - www.floatingwombat.me.uk - Have look & say Hi

DickyD

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,497
  • www.srcmbc.org.uk
  • Location: Southampton UK
    • SRCMBC
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2009, 09:53:22 PM »



The justification for offering the priority to the various nomadic groups is that they show significantly poorer levels of health than other disadvantaged groups.

Quote
There is now little doubt that health inequality between
the observed Gypsy Traveller population in England and their non-Gypsy
counterparts is striking, even when compared with other socially deprived or excluded
groups and with other ethnic minorities

Wom
They aint met me or my mucker John then, load of cr*p !  >>:-( >>:-(
Logged
Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

DieselDo

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2009, 09:56:03 PM »

and....................................

Their choice of lifestyle

Logged

wombat

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 642
  • The view from the shallow end of the gene pool
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2009, 09:58:36 PM »

I do like a well-reasoned repsonse.

Logged
The prat in the hat - www.floatingwombat.me.uk - Have look & say Hi

DieselDo

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2009, 10:04:45 PM »

It just seems like more positive descrimination.
The problem with positive descrimination is by its very nature is descrimination to the non traveller community.
Once again pandering to the minority at the cost of the majority who, by the way, pay for the services.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,317
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2009, 10:14:55 PM »

In what way are they disadvantaged? They positively choose to live the way they do and frequently cause major social disruption to the rest of the population. Nor do many of them appear to be short of funds.
Logged

wombat

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 642
  • The view from the shallow end of the gene pool
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2009, 10:21:21 PM »

Question is, though, is positive discrimination such a bad thing - if there is a group that is identified as having sginificantly higher problems then, given that one of the key tenets of the NHS is provision of care to those who need on the basis of need and not of other factors such as race or wealth, shouldn't that care be focussed on those groups who have higher health problems. After all it seems to me that if you can increase the general level of health in the nation, then fewer people are forced into the healthcare system freeing up resources for those woh need speicalist help.  

There is also an economic factor to consider - Primary care is significantly cheaper than chronic care - if you can solve these problems through first line care then you can probably avoid much heavier costs further down the line.

Of course you can say that these groups because they lie outside "accepted" and "acceptable" should have care limited - but then where do you stop? Gypsies first, then perhpas the long-term unemployed and the social underclass and so-onand so-on. You start to apportion care based less on what people need and more on who they are. Health care then becomes discriminatory - more and more your health becomes based on your social class and earning potential.


Quote
In what way are they disadvantaged? They positively choose to live the way they do and frequently cause major social disruption to the rest of the population. Nor do many of them appear to be short of funds.

Well , if the report is to be believed, they have significantly higher health problems than the general society and those problems seem to get worse if they move away from their nomadic lifestyle. It maybe a lifestyle choice - but then one could argue a similar sort of thing for most people. After all, it was pretty much a tenet of Thatcherism that being poor was a lifestlye choice and if only people got on their bikes then they would find prosperity.

Wom
Logged
The prat in the hat - www.floatingwombat.me.uk - Have look & say Hi

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,317
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2009, 10:32:31 PM »

I'm not suggesting they should be discriminated against but they don't tend to be very co operative with conventional authorities. Attempting to get their kids into some minimal degree of education has proved to be very difficult. It is certainly a problem but the very nature of their society is that they do not wish to engage with normal society and are to some extent parasitic on it. And yes, I do recognise that there is a distinction between genuine Gypsies and "Travellers" generally. My comments stem from many years working for a County Council which has a statutory duty to provide for travellers.
Logged

DieselDo

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2009, 10:35:51 PM »

Wom,
I do disagree with positive discrimination. Discrimination is Discrimination so where should it stop.
I personally blame all the PC nonsense and positive discrimination on the backlash that is allowing the BNP to get representatives voted in.
While the "Main" parties all pander to the above where can a protest vote go, only to the far right parties.
There is an upsurge in English Nationalism which has been exacerbated by the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies which without the West Lothian Question being answered will continue.
Logged

Bartapuss

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 262
  • Deltic's Rule OK!
  • Location: Somewhere up North
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2009, 11:19:10 PM »

I sometimes wonder who and where these faceless persons come from and whats their hidden agenda, no doubt they're white, affluent and in a position with a little power in the civil service, NHS or local government etc. etc. They seam to come out every so often with some new clap trap which only serves to stoke the fire of further tensions towards minorities, what is their background where did the come from, BNP, Class War, Anarchy in the UK, Combat 17 or Smash the State, skin head thug to elected representative in a suit in one easy step!!
Government is useless, judiciary is useless and the police are useless, this country is on the precipice of a slippery slope to becoming a violent nightmare place.
Logged
Every time I learn something new, it pushes something old out of my brain - I says wot I likes and I likes wot I say!!!

Captain Jack

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2009, 01:17:47 AM »

Oh MY God...Bartapuss just described, Los Angeles, Detroit, Chicago, and almost every other big city in the US!
Logged

Captain Jack

  • Guest
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2009, 01:25:12 AM »

Just some bumper stickers I've seen lately here in the States.








Logged

sheerline

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Location: Norfolk
Re: UNBELIEVABLE or is it ?
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2009, 08:55:39 AM »

And people wonder why there is a surge toward the right, it's staring everyone in the face for goodness sake! This kind of pc pandering nonsense will eventually turn society round, the right wing will grow and there will be bigger problems ahead than we have now. It's no good moaning about people turning to the 'right' if all you do is keep raping the system and their wallets in favour of some 'disadvanted' minority who decide to either dump themselves on your doorstep or choose to live outside society with their own rules which are diametrically oppose to the very society which supports them.
This pathetic pc thinking and practices will be responsible for putting and extreme right wing government in place. It will be by their own hand and everyone will be able to sit back and watch and listen whilst THEY moan for a change!
 
 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up