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Author Topic: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable  (Read 41750 times)

marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2010, 08:43:17 pm »

I have to admit that I have thought about this problem for quite sometime and experimented with various plastics, but after seeing the rocks just under the surface of the water at the Birchwood show, I soon moved onto metal.
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The long Build

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2010, 09:00:36 pm »

Now the rocks better watch out !!
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2010, 08:30:54 am »

Well what amazing weather we have been having, I thought I was not going to get the Bilge keels fitted until the spring, but with the sunshine last weekend out she came again and after some final shaping and some careful drilling, the keels were screwed and epoxied to the hull.

Now it's onto the sound system to get that finished and ready for the Leamington show. If you are coming to the show you should be able to find me as I have built an amplifier in and the base speaker is 75W alone  {-)
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2010, 10:28:49 am »

I have been adding more detail to the superstructure and working on the Engineering parts of how all the features will work. Main focus at the moment has been the 3 main turrets.

I have modified 3 Buhler motors to fit some very nice worm drives I picked up at the Dortmund model show this year. These are now running a lot more smoothly than the experimental gearing I made previously.

I am looking at a number of methods to control the gun elevation. The main hurdle being that I want them to elevate individually.
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2010, 10:41:50 am »

As an added bit of interest (or confusion), I have decided that if I am building the ship that never was, I should also build it post it's 1934 refit  ;).

So to that end I have been researching the changes that could have been made during the refit, the largest of which would probably be the addition of spotter planes. The Walrus was fairly typical for this size of ship at the time so I felt that would be suitable (also it was nick named the "shagbat" which the belly dancer thought was a fantastic name).

I have inserted the flight deck and hangers just aft of the funnels and reduced the boat deck.

The CAD model has all been drawn at 1/96th scale and adjusted to fit the hull moulding. All items are separate components for ease of modification.
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tt1

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #80 on: October 15, 2010, 05:17:47 pm »

Great build Marmoi, way way way beyond anything I could possibly attempt, but a really interesting thread to follow - so thanks for posting  :-))

              Regards, Tony.

     P.S. are you a member of the Burton Model Boat Club by any chance?
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2010, 08:05:03 pm »

Hi Tony, I am glad you are finding it interesting and yes I am a member.
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derekwarner

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2010, 08:39:16 pm »

marmoi says...... "I am looking at a number of methods to control the gun elevation. The main hurdle being that I want them to elevate individually" ....well yes...any capital ship of this era would have installed individual hydraulic piston motors coupled with helical speed reducers & hence totally independent hydraulic systems]  to elevate each barrel [ordinance] independently

However prior to any engagement [firing] all three systems were syncronized & locked....essentially the only time an individual ordinance would be taken out of sycronization would be for a maintenance function

The loading of the projectile & the silk bags of cordite & the ramming function all needed to be completed at a set elevation which posssibly would have been @ ZERO degrees.......

I have seen old footage of BB63....with ordinance looking limp  {-) ...I have also been in her FWD 16" gun housing......./...very big...old.....& impressive  O0....Derek
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #83 on: October 18, 2010, 08:08:45 am »

Hi Derek,

That's very interesting, as I thought when loading and preparing they worked independently, especially if they were not firing a broadside, which would mean that they would have to be independently adjusted for range.

I know that during the first world war that HMS Kent at the Falklands could on use one forward gun at a time because they were both mounted on the same carriage and during the chase of the Nurnberg they could not get a broadside off.

I will have to look into this further.
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dreadnought72

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #84 on: October 18, 2010, 09:44:09 am »

The loading of the projectile & the silk bags of cordite & the ramming function all needed to be completed at a set elevation which posssibly would have been @ ZERO degrees.......

The same mount on Nelson and Rodney would suggest loading would be done at +3 degrees.

Loads of facts via that link.

Andy
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Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

derekwarner

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #85 on: October 18, 2010, 10:20:12 am »

Hi all ...with respect dreadnought72 .... O0 ...yes I have read the sign.......in the gun turret with ordinance looking FWD 16" gun housing......./...very big...old.....& impressive

LOADING must be @ ZERO elevation .....

Like do you want a 3/4 quarter ton [US short lbs = 2000 lbs/ton or a bit less in OZ tonage [2240 lb/ton]  :kiss: <:(  [non nuclear] projectile landing on your toe?  {-) {-) {-)

Derek
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Derek Warner

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pugwash

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #86 on: October 18, 2010, 10:26:33 am »

Interesting link Dreadstar - I never realised with had built 18" guns - lots of info though
Geoff
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dreadnought72

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2010, 11:00:11 am »

Hi Derek,

A 1500lb projectile on a 3 degree slope, even if that slope is friction-free, will take <80lbs force to keep it in place. So I don't find the listed figure that I quoted for loading angles is unrealistic - but I'll naturally bow to experience and (presumably?) old-style H&S warnings!

Andy
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Bowwave

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #88 on: October 18, 2010, 11:25:48 am »

Hi Marmoi  Top draw in every department  O0
Bowwave
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #89 on: October 18, 2010, 11:42:56 am »

I've recently been re reading a book on the damage sustained to the ships at Jutland and it mentioned that while many of the British heavy guns could be loaded at any angle of elevation, in practice it took longer to run the guns out after firing when elevated and it was quicker to lower the guns and then re elevate when loaded. Running out the guns and loading when elevated put a big strain on the hydraulic gear and slowed everything up apparently which is probably why additional hydraulic pumps were fitted to many ships during WW1.

Colin
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derekwarner

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #90 on: October 18, 2010, 12:42:44 pm »

Gents...a few points if I may  ;D

The actual [ordinance] barrel diameter if listed as 15"...was something like an inside diameter of 14.87" includling the "helical rifling" ...so the projectile was subjected to two forces >>:-(

1. the explosive force of the charge within the ordinance to propel the projectile ........
2. the constraining force [diametrical interference] within the helical rifling in the ordance length of calliber ...which was used to keep the projectile on or inline with the traget

Remember...caliber is a mathmetical function or the relationship of [length of barrel to length of projectile] over diameter of bore

I am sure these points will be self explanatory.....  %)....

Mechanical computers....yes O0 O0 would have precluded a projectile hoist premission to elevate the projectile up to the barrel breech .... unless a ZERO elevation permissive signal was obtained.......same would have followed for charges & ramming function........Derek
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2010, 12:44:54 pm »

Yes, very good link, especially about the turret rotation and gun elevation speeds.

Makes life a bit easier as the guns are all elevated together as well.
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2010, 01:54:26 am »

Hi all ...with respect dreadnought72 .... O0 ...yes I have read the sign.......in the gun turret with ordinance looking FWD 16" gun housing......./...very big...old.....& impressive

LOADING must be @ ZERO elevation .....

Like do you want a 3/4 quarter ton [US short lbs = 2000 lbs/ton or a bit less in OZ tonage [2240 lb/ton]  :kiss: <:(  [non nuclear] projectile landing on your toe?  {-) {-) {-)

Derek

 O0 O0 O0 :-)) :-)) :-))
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #93 on: October 20, 2010, 11:52:34 am »

Ok, will now have guns looking and raising like this;
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #94 on: October 20, 2010, 11:53:35 am »

and not like this;
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marmoi

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2010, 11:55:04 am »

But, how do you explain this?  %)
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pugwash

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2010, 12:54:00 pm »

Artistic Licence.
Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #97 on: October 20, 2010, 01:04:36 pm »

Looks like a 'colourised' photo to me.
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steve pickstock

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2010, 02:11:46 pm »

Cher is on board?

Would they not do that for a ranging shot?
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derekwarner

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Re: The ship that never was - G3 - HMS Indomitable
« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2010, 02:10:05 am »

In the image "Rodney & Nelson"....Rodney has her A turrett depicted as being higher than her B turrett.  %% %%...which is not correct ....Derek
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Derek Warner

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