The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions > Springer Tugs
Springer Plans
chrise:
I am not a beginner as I think that you have concluded & I do have experience of teaching people how to read plans. My comments are about how I think the plans might lead new users into cutting the wrong size materials (the front & rear bulkheads from the dimensions given), inappropriate materials such as where there is no indication of a suitable skin material, or where the plans appear so complicated that a beginner would be totally put off such as dimensions that are to one hundredth of a millimetre. Specifically my comments about your responses are in red:
The plan bulkheads on the A4 overview are sized for 6mm hull sides I think but it does not say that - or at least it almost
certainly does say it somewhere but I haven't seen it. :-))
Front, back and sides (and internal structure) can be any thickness and made from anything.
Most of the Springers on here are made from scrap / off cuts of wood or you can go down to your local timber yard / DIY shop
and purchase new. Some of the Springers on here are built from Balsa, MDF, ply, perspex, aluminium, even steel!
I realize that the hull can be made from anything but the dimensions for the front & rear bulkhead (191.2mm) on the plan are only right if 6mm sides are used. I just think that the 6mm assumption should be clear from the plan.
I am not sure what, if anything, you have allowed for the thickness of the bottom sheet.
Bottom sheet again can be anything, Balsa sheets (grain from side to side), ply, 2 layers of thin ply,
my latest Springer has a hardwood bottom. Plan the gluing very carefully and have a couple of dry runs for practice first.
Again agreed but having allowed for 6mm sides in the bulkhead dimensions it appears that there is no guidance about the bottom thickness & the allowances that have to be made
Do you think rounding to the nearest mm (as in the hand drawn plan above) might be a good idea - or sticking to the imperial measurements of the original design. I have done a reasonable amount of woodwork over the years but marking out & then cutting exactly 88.72mm etc. sounds difficult to me.
Most important dimensions are L x W x D - 18"x8"x4 3/4" - 457mm x 203mm x 124mm (46cm x 20cm x 12cm as-near-as-damit!)
Agreed again but there is a currently active topic from a young enthusiast who doubts his, or his family ability, to build a hull. Plans that talk about one onehundredth of a millimetre do little to convince the beginner that they will succeed. It is not the overall dimensions that I am suggesting be simplified so much as the hull profile measurments. None of us can build to this level of precision anyway - or at least I most certainly cannot.
For absolute beginners a link about waterproofing (& strengthening) the joints - particularly the one between the bow "bulkhead" & bottom sheet - might also be a good idea.
Do a search hear on mayhem for water proofing or sealing wood, there's loads of stuff.
One thing I would say is make the bottom sheet to side joint strong, I'm using moulded wooden strip to strengthen mine.
Great - a few pictures should help avoid lots of beginner mistakes.
Martin (Admin):
1. Start from the external dimensions, subtract the thickness of the martial you are using and Bob's-you-uncle.
ie. width = 460mm width of wood 5mm - 2 x 5mm = 10mm - Width of Bow and Transom = 450mm
2. Don't worry about the bottom thickness, Use the profile in the plans and stick the bottom on the outside.
3. The Dimensions are fixed but no one is scrutinize you Springer at the lake, this isn't F1!! :-))
4. My build here: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/My_models/Springer/index.htm
chrise:
I don't think that we are understanding each other. I am not trying to be awkward & I agree with most of your answers but you asked for comments on the measurments & I still believe my comments to be valid if the plans are to be altered.
You gave this link to the one page overview plan & my comments refer to this plan:
http://innovative-rc.co.uk/products/springer-tug/Hull-drawing.PDF
If you look at the plan the beam of the model is given as 203.2mm whilst the bulkheads - both front & back - are shown as 191.2mm wide. These dimensions will obviously only work if the sides are 6mm (191.2+(2 sides at 6mm)12=203.2) but it doesn't say that or indeed give any guidance as to how to work out the bulkhead width. If using anything other than 6mm obviously the bulkhead dimensions given are simply wrong.
I also questioned whether the odd 0.2mm means anything. I would much prefer to tell a beginner, as a couple of examples, that the hull was 203mm wide rather than 203.2mm and that the side view 4th hull depth measurment from the stern was 156mm rather than the 155.83mm that the plan states. Automatic measurement conversion calculators can give results that are less than optimally useful. I totally agree that this is not F1 so why complicate the plan with measurments that are realistically unachievable, off putting, & which might give the impression that a hundredth of a millimetre might actuially matter?
It is easy for those of us who have modelled for years to forget how confusing this can all be to a beginner. My comments are simply about making the plans easier to use for those, who unlike us, don't have years of experience to fall back on.
Chris
Martin (Admin):
Dunno, they are not my plans! I used: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/Plans.doc
Don't get hung up on the plans, start by cutting out some cardboard templates, it will all soon become clear, honest! :-))
chrise:
--- Quote from: Martin - Forum Admin on June 23, 2009, 03:00:34 pm ---
Dunno, they are not my plans! I used: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/Plans.doc :-))
--- End quote ---
Yes it appears that my comments are directed at Roberts plans which you have provided a picture of, & link to, above.
Might I suggest that the links & pictures of Roberts plans are more confusing than helpful.
Chris
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